Does gaming turn people ______?

[Eve Charm]

Right now there are two big arguments going, gaming turning people violent with GTA 5 and everything that happens, and gaming turning people sexist with the whole jiggle physics and well anything that looks like dragon crown and DOA. We can sugar coat the terms around better to the studies people are doing like people playing video violent video games makes people more aggressive, and the depiction of women and games are going to screw people's depiction of women in real life. You can change it a bit of need be but the gist being, "playing games, turns people this"

Now while the violent video games turning people violent gets fought and debunked and what not constantly in the community, the whole sexism in gaming is at least pretty new of an issue taking center stage. While it is new gaming it's not really new in other medias like magazines and movies. But people are making the argument that games being sexist are turning into the players of games sexist or screwing reality or however you like to put it, but that argument isn't being debunked or really proven really well, at least yet. One thing though, looking at it at a whole, both are behavioral patterns claimed to be changed by gaming right or wrong.

Personally I'm not sure how people can say one way or the other about video games making a person more violent and not the same about it making people sexist and kinda any other ist alike. I'm on the no side with both.

So what your opinions on this? Do to violent video games make people violent? do to sexist video games make people to sexist? Are they basically the same behavioral patterns and if so if ones wrong should both be fixed?

 

[RJ 17]

No and no.

Games don't make people sexist any more than they make people violent. It's the same door: violent people have violent tendencies by themselves, they don't need games to influence them into being violent. The same is true about sexist people: if someone is sexist, they were sexist to begin with, games didn't make them that way. If you can't differentiate between the reality we live in and the fictional universes of videogames, then you've already got problems well beyond videogames altering/influencing your natural tendencies.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I can't speak for "people", but I've never felt particularly sexist or violent playing sexist or violent games.

 

[Zombie Sodomy]

No for violence, but I'm not sure about sexism. When I was a kid the women I saw on television all seemed horrid. They were vapid gossips who never took responsibility for anything; then I grew up and saw that real women aren't like that, most of them anyways. I've never really experienced anything like that in a video game though. When I see a woman in a video game all I see most of the time is a mass of pixels with breasts. There is nothing to dislike because it isn't human, it's just a bit of code. The ones who pass for human are characters like Alyx Vance, and she's awesome. Bad characters are just bad characters, and they don't register with me as having anything to do with reality.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

Fuck no.

Violence is based on predispositions, and gaming does not act as some type of "alternate state of mind" inducer, such as alcohol, also, there are no correlations between the two.

If you need evidence, just search the Escapist archives, there are many, many studies that disprove games as a cause of violence(there are also a lot that prove it, but that's the scientific/psychological community to you, also the ones that prove a link are biased most of the time).

As for sexism, that is more of a social problem, and I don't think that games are to blame for sexist behaviour. The thing is, that the people who assaulted Sarkeesian are not the sort of people anyone would want to associate with, so it's not like that kind of behaviour is seen favourable by the gaming community, thus, sexist behaviour is more akin the vocal minority.

Personally, I have never thought that games are sexist, the ones that might be (damsel in distress, etc.) where you have to save the princess or the female characters are a bit stereotypical never have the story as the focus, so it's as if the developers just quickly thought of a basic story so that they can focus their resources into gameplay or something.

I mean, look at all the games that ARE story based, and their portrayal of women: there is a significant shortage of stereotypical female characters.

I also think that if the game we are playing is sexist, it is unlikely that we would immediately emulate the attitudes displayed towards women, I like to think that we are smarter than that.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Gaming turns you into a gamer, the best kind of person. Ask your doctor if being a gamer is right for you.

Gaming may take away your social life, contribute to making you fat and turn you into an beta male.

 

[Floppertje]

yes. anything you interact with or spend a good deal of time thinking about influences you. apparently being a gamer also means you'll defend the most insignificant opinion with a fervor that would make the taliban jealous.

 

[Yopaz]

I don't think I have seen anyone saying gaming turns us sexist... just that games are sexist and that some gamers are sexist.

If you need evidence, just search the Escapist archives, there are many, many studies that disprove games as a cause of violence(there are also a lot that prove it, but that's the scientific/psychological community to you, also the ones that prove a link are biased most of the time).

None of that is really evidence though. There are studies "proving" gaming leads to violence, there are studies that says the opposite and there are studies that shows gamers being better lovers. As with every other social study they look at effects of gaming on a person rather than the effect on development. They also ignore the fact that we live different lives, have different past experience, will have different brain development based on both biological differences (our genetics and what nutrients we get to mention two), social status, upbringing and social life. It's not the studies that prove or disprove, it's the way the results are presented. If the study claims to prove that games make us more violent then that is obviously wrong. It can prove increased aggression over a time which isn't to say we're getting violent. Sports also increase aggression both among spectators and participants. These things can be measured to a degree over a short term. Also interestingly a study showed that when they had one group play violent games and one group play sport games the group that played sport games grew more aggressive than those who played violent games. I used to be all over the threads about gaming leading to violence and saying that I'm not violent and I play games. Well, it doesn't prove shit. I judge studies based on my feelings and my experiences rather than reading the details of the study and the results as they were observed and documented (not reported in the news). With time I have realized that I can't actually rule out games as a factor. I can't even begin to guess how big of a role it plays or if it increases or decreases likelihood of violent behaviour. Would someone behind a school massacre have done it if they had never been subject to violent media? Would a few hours of GTA have satisfied them and calmed them down enough to not go through with it? It's more or less impossible to say unless we can actually run a simulation accurately recreating a human brain and life where we could just change these parameters and see the outcome. Do I believe gaming makes us violent? No, but neither do I think we should completely dismiss that there might be a connection.

Also you are a gamer (I assume). You don't believe games lead to violence. You believe in those articles claiming gaming doesn't lead to violent behaviour. You claim that most of those saying it leads to violence are biased. Aren't you yourself biased in this? How can you be a good judge of bias or not? I know I'm not despite trying, but my mind is usually made up before I read past the headline.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Right now there are two big arguments going, gaming turning people violent with GTA 5 and everything that happens, and gaming turning people sexist with the whole jiggle physics and well anything that looks like dragon crown and DOA.

Bah. People like to talk a lot of shit but the bulk of psychological research says gaming won't turn people into anymore of a fuckhead (that's the scientific term) than they were beforehand.

There are no 'gaming problems' there are only 'people problems'.

Although, that being said, the industry (esp publishers) could do with a boot in the arse and stop treating all gamers as if they were overly hormonal 12 year olds.

 

[Psychobabble]

Yes of course they do. These games are nothing but rape and murder simulators bedeviling and bedazzling the player into a mindset where the rights of others do not matter. The news is replete with stories of violence and mayhem involving people who play these violent games. And judging by the vile and threatening backlash of both rape and murder Anita Sarkeesian received over her tropes in gaming videos, this focus group has a large amount of sexual deviancy as well.

These ... er ... actually very few per capita ... incidents among gamers proves that these mind poisoning games are responsible for ... a rather marginal amount of incidents considering the millions of people that play these games.

Hrrrrm. You know it seems that if these games actually had some kind of negative effect on people we would be seeing a much larger percentage of violence among gamers. Huh. You guys don't think the real issue could be a pack of agenda pushing, supercilious, self aggrandizing politicians and yellow journalists trying to create a problem where none actually exists do you?

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

I don't think I have seen anyone saying gaming turns us sexist... just that games are sexist and that some gamers are sexist.

If you need evidence, just search the Escapist archives, there are many, many studies that disprove games as a cause of violence(there are also a lot that prove it, but that's the scientific/psychological community to you, also the ones that prove a link are biased most of the time).

None of that is really evidence though. There are studies "proving" gaming leads to violence, there are studies that says the opposite and there are studies that shows gamers being better lovers. As with every other social study they look at effects of gaming on a person rather than the effect on development. They also ignore the fact that we live different lives, have different past experience, will have different brain development based on both biological differences (our genetics and what nutrients we get to mention two), social status, upbringing and social life. It's not the studies that prove or disprove, it's the way the results are presented. If the study claims to prove that games make us more violent then that is obviously wrong. It can prove increased aggression over a time which isn't to say we're getting violent. Sports also increase aggression both among spectators and participants. These things can be measured to a degree over a short term. Also interestingly a study showed that when they had one group play violent games and one group play sport games the group that played sport games grew more aggressive than those who played violent games. I used to be all over the threads about gaming leading to violence and saying that I'm not violent and I play games. Well, it doesn't prove shit. I judge studies based on my feelings and my experiences rather than reading the details of the study and the results as they were observed and documented (not reported in the news). With time I have realized that I can't actually rule out games as a factor. I can't even begin to guess how big of a role it plays or if it increases or decreases likelihood of violent behaviour. Would someone behind a school massacre have done it if they had never been subject to violent media? Would a few hours of GTA have satisfied them and calmed them down enough to not go through with it? It's more or less impossible to say unless we can actually run a simulation accurately recreating a human brain and life where we could just change these parameters and see the outcome. Do I believe gaming makes us violent? No, but neither do I think we should completely dismiss that there might be a connection.

Also you are a gamer (I assume). You don't believe games lead to violence. You believe in those articles claiming gaming doesn't lead to violent behaviour. You claim that most of those saying it leads to violence are biased. Aren't you yourself biased in this? How can you be a good judge of bias or not? I know I'm not despite trying, but my mind is usually made up before I read past the headline.

Well, in saying so, I guess we both can suffer from confirmation bias.

And I did point out how one study saying yay contradicts another study saying nay.

I, however, have never seen someone act more violent after playing video games, I often become calmer if I play violent video games because I went out all of that anger.

Also the "does X medium lead to Y" thing has been going on for a long, long time, and it has never been proven, so it's natural to assume that the same applies to video games.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

You guys don't think the real issue could be a pack of agenda pushing, supercilious, self aggrandizing politicians and yellow journalists trying to create a problem where none actually exists do you?

You're forgetting traditional mediums that view gaming as a revenue threat.

 

[Yopaz]

Well, in saying so, I guess we both can suffer from confirmation bias.

And I did point out how one study saying yay contradicts another study saying nay.

I, however, have never seen someone act more violent after playing video games, I often become calmer if I play violent video games because I went out all of that anger.

Also the "does X medium lead to Y" thing has been going on for a long, long time, and it has never been proven, so it's natural to assume that the same applies to video games.

Just out of curiosity, did you read my whole post? I just noticed how long it was, I apologize for that.

My point was that we don't have any decent connection that confirms one or the other because we can't actually prove one thing or the other. We don't have any proof for violent media of any kind leading to violent behaviour, but that doesn't mean it's not a factor. I'm not claiming there's any kind of validity to the claims. I am simply saying that it's stupid to dismiss what can be a decent chunk of someone's life. All I am saying is that it MIGHT be a SMALL factor than in combination with A LOT of other factors it might make a difference one way or the other. I am saying it's impossible to prove anything since it's not A->B but rather a complex composition of events where violent media may have some sort of contribution. I'm saying this is too complex to dismiss one thing and way too complex to blame one thing.

You haven't seen anyone get violent after playing, I don't know anyone getting more violent from games. Well, that's great, the nemesis of science, undocumented personal experience coupled with feelings on the subject shows up.

Now you mentioned feeling relaxed after gaming because you take out your anger like that. That is exactly where the test results in some of those studies lie. They monitor people as they play and see an increase in aggression and journalists quote that part and change the wording enough to get the headline that science proves games lead to violence. It's bullshit of course. Objective studies are subject to subjective journalists who want to sell papers or get viewers.

So if you're still with me I am saying that it's incredibly silly to rule out violent media (especially the news), but it's infinitely more stupid to blame gaming for violent behaviour. If it were to blame we would see a lot more violence than we currently do.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Nope. Gaming is a pastime. It's just another form of entertainment.

 

[Zburator]

I think the term 'biased sample' is somewhat relevant for this forum.

 

[Seagoon]

No and no. Games don't make people sexist any more than they make people violent.

I kind of disagree, sadly. Video games do contribute to a large part of popular culture. Sexism is a great deal more prevalent that violence and I think it would be stupid to say that some of the arguably sexist attitudes represented in mainstream video games don't rub off onto society just as much as sexism, represented in television or film does.

Obviously, if you're a decent human being, you're not going to let it affect your own opinions but we can't say that everyone who plays video games are decent people.

 

[RJ 17]

No and no. Games don't make people sexist any more than they make people violent.

I kind of disagree, sadly. Video games do contribute to a large part of popular culture. Sexism is a great deal more prevalent that violence and I think it would be stupid to say that some of the arguably sexist attitudes represented in mainstream video games don't rub off onto society just as much as sexism, represented in television or film does.

Sexism is more prevalent than violence in pop culture? Are you kidding? Violence is everywhere in TV and Movies, and when you consider the number of movies and TV shows that are sporting female main characters, I'd argue that sexism is less prevalent than violence. If you believe that one type of behavior (sexism, in this case) can rub off on a player, then you have to believe that all types of behavior (such as violence) can rub off on the player.

Obviously, if you're a decent human being, you're not going to let it affect your own opinions but we can't say that everyone who plays video games are decent people.

And that's my point exactly when I say

If you can't differentiate between the reality we live in and the fictional universes of videogames, then you've already got problems well beyond videogames altering/influencing your natural tendencies.

If you're a decent person, it's not going to affect you any more than violence would. If you're not a decent person, then you're likely already sexist to begin with...you don't need videogames as an excuse for your own behavior.

 

[edgecult]

Nope and nope far as i've seen.

The best I can add is that gaming makes some people stupid.. or more to the point. Lets the stupid people act freely stupid without consequence. (but really no more than the internet so it's not gameings fault it's just where I get the brunt of the observation from.)

The violence thing as said has been debunked. Best one can pin on it at all is that it lets people with serious issues act out their serious issues even if it were a factor lets remember that this venn diagram's overlapping point between people who play GTA whatever (which remember sold what? a few Billion with GTA5 not counting weird or impatient people who bought multiple copies) and the people who go out and commit Hate Crimes and other sick stupid crap is a very very small space. so it might be worth maybe looking in further than his game shelf for the cause of said problems. (Of course nobody will because "Is your childs video games causing him to want to kill you in your sleep? More of this at 7" keeps stupid people watching TV longer than actual news.)

The sexism thing is a far more interesting topic if only because it seems like a lot of various issues compounded into one big thing that's masking all the parts actually causing it.

Some games are just going to be like this because that's the corner they wrote them selves into a long time ago, before anyone ever though to ask if the other gender wanted a turn on the controller or if they cared at all that all the girl characters skirts come up when they jump. This seems to be where I think DOA is trapped. It's a game built on jiggle physics, Marketed for it's half clothed lady characters. Built spin offs entirely on fan service. (and these games are canon in the over arching story weirdly enough) Mind you that's not a defense or an excuse, but sadly the backlash on them making any kind of change would be brutal. (See my first paragraph for why) So they'll just keep making half clothed bouncy chested ladies till something major changes or they die off.

JRPGs (or well any anime art styled game. only really familiar with rpg and fighter myself) have issues with breaking from stock character types and tropes as well as marketing based issues which only serve to exasperate the tropeishness. This is where characters like Morrigan from Darkstalkers, Litchi from BlazBlue, the Sorceress from Dragons Crown, half the characters on the front page of that aragest game that just came to steam, ect come from. It's fanservice put in games and on boxes to help sell the game off to their target 13-17 male market. Mind you this isn't even tied to eastern titles. (but it's more prevalent there yes.) Look at every GTA game that's popped up sense 3. There's the running joke about the box art girl that never has anything to do with the game. Now this leads to my next point nicely.

The best part this goes beyond just using the whole woman as half naked marketing tool in games. The really damning parts goes further into the stories like game devs having to fight tooth and nail to make games with Female protagonists. (because we wont buy or play any game where we can't be a big strong man.) or even include them on the box art of their own games. (The last of us at least managed to get ellie on the cover but not without a throwdown with the publisher, bioshock infinite couldn't even get Elizabeth on the front cover and it's her bloody story.) It really does show a bit of a dark image of their view of us. Far as they believe we wont buy or play a game with a woman on the cover unless their half dressed and posing for us... hrm.. it's kinda sad..

Game devs or at least publishers think we're all horny 13 year old boys and were treated and marketed to as such that seems to be the sad truth that's causing a good bit of this image problem.

Now we're also not totally blameless here either. You've got your lovely trolls and Anti PC police. (IE the guys who'd threaten to burn things and attack people if the next DOA game promised to remove jiggle physics.) Our hordes of obscenity shouting 12 year old's infesting any multiplayer game with mic support or a general chat feature. But again these people are our overlap on this venn diagram while a larger portion than our people who play games and kill real people but still a very small group of a much larger whole.

As I said, this bit was a far deeper topic than the first bit. These are just the best I can gather as facts to this issue of ours. But again my answer is no. Games don't make us sexist. Game publishers and marketers far as I can tell though the guys marketing games to us just think we are.. or are atleast unwilling to let us prove we're not.