Does open warfare still happen in comics?

[happyninja42]

So I don't read many of them these days, never did really, but, do regular, conventional wars still happen, and are mentioned in comics? It seems to me, that in worlds where there are hundreds, if not thousands of super heroes flying around, stopping crime, it would make trying to engage in massive war a moot point. That before anyone could really get started, someone would fly in, waggle a finger at them, and tell them to stop or they will throw all of their weapons into space with a thought.

I mean, I know the supers go at each other, in epic battles and cause lots of destruction, but I mean, do things like "And today in Bulgravivatsizlaviagrad, columns of tanks rolled out to invade their neighboring country Ichbineinauslanderstan. Sources say that roughly 10,000 troops on either side are deployed, and the engagement seems to be long and bloody. Back to you Tom!" Does that happen? Because it seems like any of those types of stories would all end the same way.

"Back to you To....wait a minute, this just in, Superman and Invincible Dude, a native hero from Bulgravivatsizlaviagrad have flown in, flipped all the tanks on their heads, spanked every soldier that was deployed, and then flew to the generals and told them to go home. So it seems that engagement is dead before it began Tom! How's the weather?"

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

It depends on how political the writer wants the story to be. If they want to discuss how superheroes influence politics, they'll have Whereverstan invade Idontcarestad and raise the moral question of whether superheroes should intervene. If the writer doesn't care about politics or thinks it'll distract from the story, they'll just conveniently forget to mention whether there's a civil war or massive genocide brewing off-panel while Superman saves the Moon from alien squids or whatever.

I think the standard explanation for why guys like Iron Man or Superman don't just fly into Iraq and kick the shit out of ISIS or whatever is that they either find it morally objectionable or that they think it's not their place to intervene in international sovereignty. More cynically, they might not see the point - they can fly in and punch up all the bad guys, but what then? If the country has no functioning justice system, those guys can't be arrested or imprisoned, and mass summary execution isn't a palatable solution. They can't fix the root causes or provide a long-term solution, so there's really nothing they can do even if they did intervene.

There are people - usually supervillains - who personally control nations, like Black Adam and Doctor Doom. Aquaman is a rare heroic example. Those guys usually enforce their territorial sovereignty with their superpowers, and specific plotlines have dealt with stuff like Black Adam suppressing a rebellion in Khandaq or Aquaman trying to prevent a war between the US and Atlantis.

There was an intriguing comic series called Uber that dealt with "What if the Nazis discovered a way to make superhumans as WW2 was ending?" I bring it up because that title takes a unique perspective on superhumans; because they're literally manufactured by the military, the super-soldiers are treated more as very expensive biological machinery than as people, to the point where they grade them by class as you would a class of naval vessel ("cruiser," "battleship"), give them mark numbers (V1, V2, etc.), use them as one would use an armoured brigade and even literally name them "tank-men." The process of "building" an Uber in the setting consists of a protracted medical procedure, and if an Uber is sent out "half-finished," the result is a lot like trying to fly a plane that's only half-built - they tend to literally malfunction and die.

It was a remarkably well-thought-out take on the premise of a military superhero, because it incorporated stuff like logistics, prototyping, and manufacturing into the idea of a bulletproof soldier who can shoot lightning bolts out of his eyes. Sadly, the plot went downhill after the first two dozen issues, and I eventually gave up on it; the author's explanation for why the atomic bomb isn't being used is basically pulled out of his arse, and as the story proceeds the Nazis become more and more inexplicably competent - such as pulling a hundred submarines out of nowhere and sailing to Boston, despite it being established at the start of the story that Germany c. 1945 doesn't have the manufacturing capacity to make that many submarines on such short notice, nor do they have the fuel to send them across the Atlantic and back.

And then you get dumb shit like...they start making customized Ubers, so they develop a type that is basically all lightning-vision with none of the invulnerability or physical power, kind of like Cyclops. This is presented as a devastating tactical development with no counter, despite the fact that in order to work, the Cyclops-Ubers need to stand on top of tall, obvious, rush-built lookout towers with nothing but an open-faced helmet for defence. One guy with a sniper rifle could kill them all without being seen. They even show a sniper at the start of the story killing an Uber by shooting him in his non-bulletproof eye, and then they promptly forget that rifles are a weapon that exists.

The title has a lot of stuff like that. It was disappointing, because it was such a great idea that was being handled really well, and then they demanded that the author somehow stretch out the plot as long as possible, resulting in the Nazis winning a whole bunch of battles that they had no business winning and the Allies losing a lot of battles where they had every advantage.

 

[WolfThomas]

It depends on the world. I'm more familiar with marvel, where yes it definitely still happens. Real conflicts like the Iraq occupation and other things still happened. Except for a few specific military superheroes like War Machine, USAgent or Gauntlet who have been deployed heroes tend to keep out of it. They did explain that the US deployed superhuman soliders to Iraq prior to M-Day to counter insurgent mutants, but once nearly all the mutants were depowered they didn't need them there (compared to back in the USA).

Most of the time the reason superheroes stay in the US and more particulary New York is that's where the villains are. People who are exposed to radiation or mutagens or whatever. They all flock to New York and in turn the superheroes fight them there. Aliens etc target New York because of the Superhumans and so on.

However if Marvel does want their heroes to be involved in a conflict. It will tend to be between fictional nations. Like Doom and his Latverian forces invading Rumekistan and Sokovia.

 

[Zontar]

It depends on how serious (or dark) the setting is. In the Ultimates line back when it was a thing, the Ultimates/Avengers where a part of S.H.I.E.L.D., which was itself a part of the US military, and on several occasions where sent in alongside troops into conflict zones.

Then there's D.C. where third world nations do still go to war (and due to the nature of the setting, do so with advanced tech that would crush the real world US military, as well as with superhumans who would do the same) though most tend to come to an end rather quickly due to the boy scout putting a stop to it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

DC is currently running "Bombshells", which is an alternative storyline in which various superheroines from "now" were in 1940s US. And most seem to be LGBT and many are Jewish, so they are taking an interest in what is happening in Europe.

(Though, also in this timeline, the US entered the war right away, and it's hardly mentioned that the Nazis were opposed to people other than Jews. LGBT people are occasionally mentioned, Roma once or twice).

 

[Zontar]

DC is currently running "Bombshells", which is an alternative storyline in which various superheroines from "now" were in 1940s US. And most seem to be LGBT and many are Jewish, so they are taking an interest in what is happening in Europe.

(Though, also in this timeline, the US entered the war right away, and it's hardly mentioned that the Nazis were opposed to people other than Jews. LGBT people are occasionally mentioned, Roma once or twice).

Hearing this, I think I now know why D.C.'s lineup overall is objectively better then Marvel's: containment.

I'm sorry, but that premise just sounds like the type of comic Marvel "not even pretending to are anymore" Comics would release.

 

[Thaluikhain]

DC is currently running "Bombshells", which is an alternative storyline in which various superheroines from "now" were in 1940s US. And most seem to be LGBT and many are Jewish, so they are taking an interest in what is happening in Europe.

(Though, also in this timeline, the US entered the war right away, and it's hardly mentioned that the Nazis were opposed to people other than Jews. LGBT people are occasionally mentioned, Roma once or twice).

Hearing this, I think I now know why D.C.'s lineup overall is objectively better then Marvel's: containment.

I'm sorry, but that premise just sounds like the type of comic Marvel "not even pretending to are anymore" Comics would release.

DC used to do lots of Elseworld stories, but normally for only a few issues. But yeah, anyone who doesn't like them can keep the normal continuity, so there's that.

 

[Zontar]

DC is currently running "Bombshells", which is an alternative storyline in which various superheroines from "now" were in 1940s US. And most seem to be LGBT and many are Jewish, so they are taking an interest in what is happening in Europe.

(Though, also in this timeline, the US entered the war right away, and it's hardly mentioned that the Nazis were opposed to people other than Jews. LGBT people are occasionally mentioned, Roma once or twice).

Hearing this, I think I now know why D.C.'s lineup overall is objectively better then Marvel's: containment.

I'm sorry, but that premise just sounds like the type of comic Marvel "not even pretending to are anymore" Comics would release.

DC used to do lots of Elseworld stories, but normally for only a few issues. But yeah, anyone who doesn't like them can keep the normal continuity, so there's that.

To be fair there are quite a few of their Elseworld stories I quite enjoy, such as Red Son. But it is nice that when they are a stinker they're isolated, unlike at Marvel which insists on all its stories either being in the 616 universe or being in whichever single secondary continuity is active at that time. That and the fact they've suffered a major talent drain, well there's a reason why so many comics seem to be getting cancelled and new ones take their place (to themselves be quickly cancelled). I've actually got a bet with a friend to see whether the new Wasp comic will last to a 13th issue.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

To be fair there are quite a few of their Elseworld stories I quite enjoy, such as Red Son. But it is nice that when they are a stinker they're isolated, unlike at Marvel which insists on all its stories either being in the 616 universe or being in whichever single secondary continuity is active at that time.

It's ironic, because Marvel was the first of the two companies to start publishing self-contained alternate universe stories under their "What If...?" imprint.

But yeah, Elseworlds and other multiversal shenanigans are great and I always like seeing more of them. The major thing that shat me about Multiversity was that Morrison wrote one issue for each of his alternate universe ideas, and left each and every one hanging after that. I put down the book, looked online for a volume 2, and went "That's it? Seriously? But what about Nazi Superman???"

I'd like to see any one of those expanded in a full six-issue run. Well, except the one where all of the Justice League's descendants were bitchy celebrities. That one can go hang.

I'm sorry, but that premise just sounds like the type of comic Marvel "not even pretending to are anymore" Comics would release.

It's actually pretty good. It's naturally focussed on B-tier female characters (hence the title), but it's interesting enough. The novelty wears off eventually, and the plot gets increasingly convoluted with Nazi necromancers and like five different narratives going on at once, but I can't argue with a book where Batwoman is a professional baseball player. [http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/01-JAN/Batwoman_32_cvr_v01_r01_580_54c06fd1d8d937.95287741.jpg]

It helps that they don't actually invert anyone's sexuality for some kind of publicity stunt; Kate Kane has been canonically gay ever since she was reintroduced to the continuity, Wonder Woman has always been implicitly bisexual, and the Harley/Ivy relationship is almost as old as Harley is. [http://17rg073sukbm1lmjk9jrehb643.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/harleyivy5.jpg] The characters are fundamentally the same. It's not like they up and decided to make Green Lantern gay for no reason. [http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/green-lantern-comes-out-as-gay-in-earth-two-20120601]

 

[Thaluikhain]

It helps that they don't actually invert anyone's sexuality for some kind of publicity stunt; Kate Kane has been canonically gay ever since she was reintroduced to the continuity, Wonder Woman has always been implicitly bisexual, and the Harley/Ivy relationship is almost as old as Harley is. [http://17rg073sukbm1lmjk9jrehb643.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/harleyivy5.jpg] The characters are fundamentally the same. It's not like they up and decided to make Green Lantern gay for no reason. [http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/green-lantern-comes-out-as-gay-in-earth-two-20120601]

What about Zatanna and Raven and Vixen and Hawkgirl and possibly Catwoman? Having said that, I'm all for going all out on it, and it's not just a publicity stunt (beyond LGBT people existing always being for some sinister motive).

(It took me a while to work out that she's "Batwoman" because she hits people with a bat, rather than the other way around.)