Dragon Age 2

[-Drifter-]

Are people really complaining about this game? Or rather, the demo? I guess I wouldn't be too surprised, but let me give my opinion on this. Now, I don't know specifically what people are complaining about, but here are a few possibilities I can imagine.

A) It's all just action and fighting!

Well, yeah, it's a demo. The point is to excite, to engage the player and to be fun. Not that non action bits can't be enjoyable, but in a demo where you don't yet have any real investment in the story, it just doesn't work.

B) They changed the combat! It's all hacky-slashy now!

So? Look, I don't mean to sound like some Call of Duty junkie, but combat in Dragon Age was boring. If I wanted to fight by clicking on an enemy once, then using the occasional spell/special ability and waiting for them to recharge, I'd play an MMO. In a single player game though, there's just no reason for it, so I fail to see why it's such a problem that things are a little more involved now. And aside from having more control over your attacks, it really doesn't seem that different.

C) They've dumbed it down!

How, exactly? For the most part things seem more or less the same, outside of the afore mentioned combat. Oh, and the art style, but DA:O looked like generic crap to me so pretty much anything else is an improvement. You can't access your inventory or change gear in the demo, but that's because it's the demo. You can in the full game. Also, the dialog system is a little streamlined since last time, taking the Mass Effect approach of having a general summary of what your character will say, then having him/her speak it out loud. I'll admit, this I can understand why people may be a little irked. One of the problems I've always had with Mass Effect (as well as Fable 3) is that sometimes your character says something you didn't intend. In ME1 I intended to tell my crew that everything rested on our shoulders, but Shepard interpreted that as my wanting to give a racist speech and insult half the crew. It hardly seems like something worth throwing a fit over, though.

So yeah, I hope you've all enjoyed me putting words in your collective mouth, now feel free to tell me all the many ways I'm wrong and why DA2 is the worst thing to happen to gaming since E.T. for the Atari 2600.

 

[ultrachicken]

In response to B), they didn't actually change the combat very much, they just gave it some better animations and made your button presses yield an immediate response from the character. It's still just as tactical as ever.

The only evidence I see that the game has been dumbed down is the removal of displayed numbers representing damage and health, though I imagine that the full game has settings to change that, and it really isn't a big deal anyways.

 

[Dr. wonderful]

Dude.

Look, I'm on the bioware fourm 24/7, couldn't you just posted it on the site?

 

[-Drifter-]

Dude.

Look, I'm on the bioware fourm 24/7, couldn't you just posted it on the site?

It hadn't occurred to me.

 

[BigKush]

Dude.

Look, I'm on the bioware fourm 24/7, couldn't you just posted it on the site?

You act as if he created the thread for you and you only? What the hell is wrong with posting it here?

 

[darth.pixie]

In response to B), they didn't actually change the combat very much, they just gave it some better animations and made your button presses yield an immediate response from the character. It's still just as tactical as ever.

I'm curious why you think they're better...DA:O had them better or at least more realistic. Hawke Rogue was acting like he was Lord of the Matrix, Warriors had rockets on their legs and Mages...well, Mages were ok, I guess...though they did handle a stick that was bigger than they were as if it was a twig. And the running animations suck...Granted, they're better than some games but I expected better from Bioware.

Why all the DA2 threads all of a sudden? I've seen 4 just yesterday, at least one with a similar topic.

The dumbing down is what I use to describe the skill tree. There are no more feats that influence anything outside combat. And DA:O was actiony but you couldn't tell considering the dialogue and some cutscenes. Now that they made combat faster it's more noticeable, I think.

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

 

[Syphous]

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

Worked on me. Went from a "not sure" to a "first day".

 

[ultrachicken]

In response to B), they didn't actually change the combat very much, they just gave it some better animations and made your button presses yield an immediate response from the character. It's still just as tactical as ever.

I'm curious why you think they're better...DA:O had them better or at least more realistic. Hawke Rogue was acting like he was Lord of the Matrix, Warriors had rockets on their legs and Mages...well, Mages were ok, I guess...though they did handle a stick that was bigger than they were as if it was a twig. And the running animations suck...Granted, they're better than some games but I expected better from Bioware.

Why all the DA2 threads all of a sudden? I've seen 4 just yesterday, at least one with a similar topic.

The dumbing down is what I use to describe the skill tree. There are no more feats that influence anything outside combat. And DA:O was actiony but you couldn't tell considering the dialogue and some cutscenes. Now that they made combat faster it's more noticeable, I think.

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

Because watching my dwarf warrior struggle for two seconds to swing his sword each time does not incite much excitement in the combat. It's now far more flashy, possibly too much so for its own good, but at least when you hit a button there's an immediacy to the character's response.

Other than coercion, the skills that affected non-combat situations weren't all that useful. They were highly situational, some only having one situation in which they could be used outside of combat throughout the entire game.

Where are you getting the idea that most people are turned off of the game based on the demo? There's no way to know that.

 

[Alex Ford]

In response to B), they didn't actually change the combat very much, they just gave it some better animations and made your button presses yield an immediate response from the character. It's still just as tactical as ever.

I'm curious why you think they're better...DA:O had them better or at least more realistic. Hawke Rogue was acting like he was Lord of the Matrix, Warriors had rockets on their legs and Mages...well, Mages were ok, I guess...though they did handle a stick that was bigger than they were as if it was a twig. And the running animations suck...Granted, they're better than some games but I expected better from Bioware.

Why all the DA2 threads all of a sudden? I've seen 4 just yesterday, at least one with a similar topic.

The dumbing down is what I use to describe the skill tree. There are no more feats that influence anything outside combat. And DA:O was actiony but you couldn't tell considering the dialogue and some cutscenes. Now that they made combat faster it's more noticeable, I think.

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

I imagine the normal persuade and stealing skills will be there in the full game.
Making the rouges a little Matrix is not a negative thing in my opinion though, as I see no reason to play as a rouge in DA:O,
but now it looks like it would be fun.Totally agree on the running animation though, bothered me through the entire demo.

 

[Latinidiot]

In response to B), they didn't actually change the combat very much, they just gave it some better animations and made your button presses yield an immediate response from the character. It's still just as tactical as ever.

I'm curious why you think they're better...DA:O had them better or at least more realistic. Hawke Rogue was acting like he was Lord of the Matrix, Warriors had rockets on their legs and Mages...well, Mages were ok, I guess...though they did handle a stick that was bigger than they were as if it was a twig. And the running animations suck...Granted, they're better than some games but I expected better from Bioware.

Why all the DA2 threads all of a sudden? I've seen 4 just yesterday, at least one with a similar topic.

The dumbing down is what I use to describe the skill tree. There are no more feats that influence anything outside combat. And DA:O was actiony but you couldn't tell considering the dialogue and some cutscenes. Now that they made combat faster it's more noticeable, I think.

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

Yeah, about the outside of combat feats part, I was hoping that that somehow wasn't included in the demo, but you think there just aren't any? That would suck.

And I find the combat much more fun now, though I doubt it will be as exciting when it gets hard, and more frustating, because in DA:O, I could set my character on an enemy, and then calmy plan out the attacks of my team mates while my character hacked way. now I have to keep clicking, which makes it more difficult to plan.

 

[darth.pixie]

Because watching my dwarf warrior struggle for two seconds to swing his sword each time does not incite much excitement in the combat. It's now far more flashy, possibly too much so for its own good, but at least when you hit a button there's an immediacy to the character's response.

So it's because it's faster. That is fine but it's not really animation. I was just referring to how they move, not general combat and speed. The two-handed combat was pretty slow.

Other than coercion, the skills that affected non-combat situations weren't all that useful. They were highly situational, some only having one situation in which they could be used outside of combat throughout the entire game.

Where are you getting the idea that most people are turned off of the game based on the demo? There's no way to know that.

Well, I read the posts in most of the threads. There have been a lot of threads. And talked to some friends who cancelled their pre-order. There were more of those who didn't like it than the others, in my experience. I'm not saying there no one liked it at all, it's just that they were in a slight minority.

And the fact that the feats were badly implemented (including coercion because you had no idea when it's used/how it's used/not really useful compared to bashing heads) doesn't mean we shouldn't have the option at all.

I imagine the normal persuade and stealing skills will be there in the full game.
Making the rouges a little Matrix is not a negative thing in my opinion though, as I see no reason to play as a rouge in DA:O,

The stealing, probably. Persuade...I don't know. I haven't seen it while wandering through the feats. I was expecting more feats outside combat. Persuade, Intimidate, Bluff, Taunt...anything, really. I wasn't picky.

And for the Matrix...it's not totally bad but it's unrealistic and when Hawke took spinning into the air like a propeller I started laughing. Which was not good for a combat situation. It's level 1, he is just a farmer with a bit more battle practice and he's suddenly Neo.

 

[darth.pixie]

Yeah, about the outside of combat feats part, I was hoping that that somehow wasn't included in the demo, but you think there just aren't any? That would suck.

And I find the combat much more fun now, though I doubt it will be as exciting when it gets hard, and more frustating, because in DA:O, I could set my character on an enemy, and then calmy plan out the attacks of my team mates while my character hacked way. now I have to keep clicking, which makes it more difficult to plan.

I don't think they are, no...which is why they suck for me, because I love non combat feats.

And I think it has the auto-attack option somewhere. The characters do make an absurdly low amount of damage though. Both you and the NPCs. They were supposed to be fodder after reaching level 3 and even though they were no threat (again, low damage) it took so long to kill them. And fireball now sucks.

 

[Latinidiot]

Yeah, about the outside of combat feats part, I was hoping that that somehow wasn't included in the demo, but you think there just aren't any? That would suck.

And I find the combat much more fun now, though I doubt it will be as exciting when it gets hard, and more frustating, because in DA:O, I could set my character on an enemy, and then calmy plan out the attacks of my team mates while my character hacked way. now I have to keep clicking, which makes it more difficult to plan.

I don't think they are, no...which is why they suck for me, because I love non combat feats.

And I think it has the auto-attack option somewhere. The characters do make an absurdly low amount of damage though. Both you and the NPCs. They were supposed to be fodder after reaching level 3 and even though they were no threat (again, low damage) it took so long to kill them. And fireball now sucks.

Yes, but you can upgrade fireball, and Archery isso much better than in the previous game. It's quite powerfull, an enemy gets slowed down if you hit him, and you just beat up your opponent if he gets too close. And the skills look interesting.

 

[Michael Logan]

All in all, the demo was supposed to incite players to buy and for most, it didn't. That is all.

Worked on me. Went from a "not sure" to a "first day".

Other way around for me, from a "first day" to a "not sure".

 

[Traun]

A) It's all just action and fighting!

Believe it or not, but some people enjoy more slow-pace tactical combat than an action fest.

B) They changed the combat! It's all hacky-slashy now!

So? Look, I don't mean to sound like some Call of Duty junkie, but combat in Dragon Age was boring. If I wanted to fight by clicking on an enemy once, then using the occasional spell/special ability and waiting for them to recharge, I'd play an MMO. In a single player game though, there's just no reason for it, so I fail to see why it's such a problem that things are a little more involved now. And aside from having more control over your attacks, it really doesn't seem that different.

You are waaaaaay of the point. DA wasn't made for people like you, it was made for people who enjoyed the fast-paced deep strategic combat in games like Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate. DA:O was too easy and that was it's flaw. The people who bought the game expected a second Baldur's Gate. Reducing the game to this is not what those people expected or wanted. Face it - some people don't like the gameplay you do.

C) They've dumbed it down!

Dragon Age wasn't a complex game. Look, I'll be straight farward here, when you are given a quest you have two options - yes and no. Complicated dialog trees include varietion of yes and no - persuade, diplomacy, intelligence, lore, etc. look at dialog trees from Fallout 2, in fact Fallout 2, and BG games, not to be accuses of using one example, allowed you to go around a problem in multiple ways.
People wanted games to return to this time - ability to chose what and when to say, the ability to solve a problem in more ways than one. Dragon Age: Origin fell short in this department, however it was a start. People were excited about this, seeing the game dumbed down crushed those hopes. Could DA2 make the combat harder and therefore more strategic? Could we have a more complex dialogs? Would they expand on the in-game possibilities?
Mass Effect is good for what it is - a cinematic experience, however this is not what we were promised, that is not what people expected Dragon Age to be.

So yeah, I hope you've all enjoyed me putting words in your collective mouth, now feel free to tell me all the many ways I'm wrong and why DA2 is the worst thing to happen to gaming since E.T. for the Atari 2600.

No, you are not wrong. Dragon Age 2 just took a turn in a direction that some of the audience didn't like. Hope you enjoy it, some people won't.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

So? Look, I don't mean to sound like some Call of Duty junkie, but combat in Dragon Age was boring. If I wanted to fight by clicking on an enemy once, then using the occasional spell/special ability and waiting for them to recharge, I'd play an MMO. In a single player game though, there's just no reason for it, so I fail to see why it's such a problem that things are a little more involved now. And aside from having more control over your attacks, it really doesn't seem that different.

I agree that Bioware copying MMO style RPG systems for single player game was annoying since I don't enjoy MMO combat that much, apart from Guild Wars. But speeding it up, simplifying the presentation and hoping people think that it's a quality action game while nudge nudging and wink winking at old school players telling them that the tactics is great is just something that makes me facepalm. Are people really going to think that this is now something that competes with a quality action RPG with simple tactics like Divinity 2? What they should have done is try to go back to a different style of RPG system or invent a new one that is better. If they want to make an honestly good real time tactical RPG then they need to do something really special since it is not an easy thing to pull off.

Firstly they should make tough decisions like locking the camera to a fixed isometric position. Managing camera is nice for immersion or whatever but for tactical awareness it's makes everything a real chore, slows you right down to the point where you can't be bothered. For the RPG system they should cut out all of the spammy, gimmicky regenerating attacks. Just tell warriors who to attack then give me more warriors then maybe we could get some real tactically interesting abilities like a shield wall. The AI is also a pain, tactics is knightmare to manage when characters just go off running in random directions like headless chickens when you ignore them for a moment. I could probably go on.

 

[MacroSamurai]

For those worried about the whole having to constantly press a button to do basic attacks, from everything I've heard (I can't seem to find a dev confirmation, but it's still the popular opinion) you can apparently toggle it on and off.

And acrobatics in combat shouldn't just be considered a Matrix thing to do. Acrobatics like that exist in other games and media before the Matrix (I'm looking at you, Kung Fu movies). Not to mention acrobatics can realistically be a useful tool in combat situations. Though I'm not sure how useful it would be when you're surrounded by a bunch of dudes.

 

[Israirie]

I reckon it looks far better now than DAO ever did.
The hack and slash style suits this franchise way more than the terrible attempts at "tactical" combat which DAO offered. It was a shameful mockery of Baldur's Gate's fantastic combat system and was something totally shallow, limited, and openly exploitable. You couldn't possibly "dumb down" DAO's combat any more than it already was. Stack buffs until you're nigh invincible and capable of taking out flemeth solo while having phone sex with your girlfriend. Or roll a rogue and watch yourself fail miserably in comparison to the other classes because balance is overrated and dying in two hits is cool. Wut...

Can't say much on the story though until I play it. Hopefully better than DAO's badly written illogical plot which contained some of the most moronic irrational villains I've ever borne witness to.

Yeah you can probably tell by now that I think DAO is the most overrated game in the history of the universe. This is about my 5th rant on the topic. But with the changes Bioware are making to their sequel I'm very willing to give it another shot.

 

[StormShaun]

I Love Toast

Agreed but I just played the Dragon Age 2 demo I didnt like the camera controls too hard to control on pc and annoying, hopefully the console camera controls will be good...