Entitlement

[CaptOfSerenity]

No spoilers here, nor in the discussion, please.

After Mass Effect fans demanded that Bioware change the ending to ME3, a torrent of derogatory comments and overuse of the word "entitlement" have brought out adversarial relationships between games press, game fans, and game developers, with the fans on one side, alone. Who is right? To figure out, I decided to evaluate the acidic word that blows up Twitter feeds and forum boards even as I type.

What does it mean?

It is the belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges, according to the dictionary.

What are we entitled to?

When we buy a game (new), we are entitled to a good game. But if it isn't good, or just doesn't tickle our particular fancy, then we just learn our lesson. We get more critical about future purchases and we move forward, because that particular game didn't meet our expectations. If we don't like it, we should simply move on. To mindlessly ***** is unhealthy. Criticize, of course, but do it constructively.

The important thing is that quality is a matter of opinion.

Should they patch Mass Effect 3's story?

No. Mass Effect 3's story may be unsatisfactory (I haven't finished it, yet, but that's not the point), but that doesn't mean it should be changed. It's much different from patching a technical issue. A patch to fix matchmaking or a glitch should happen because that was unintentional. The story, whether you like it or not, is an artistic expression. It should be left to be what it is, and to change it because you don't like it, is effectively censorship. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor)

If you consider video games as an artistic medium, you would understand this. If it's just a service and soulless product, then you won't.

Criticizing constructively should be the route taken, because a young, enterprising writer, or a seasoned veteran, could take well-reasoned criticism to heart and make future stories better.

Alternatively, think if you wrote a story that people felt had a lackluster ending. You mulled over it for weeks and felt that is the appropriate ending for your story. You published it, they bought it.Should you change it? Fuck no! It's your story, not theirs. You made it for them, maybe, but it is still your story, that you thought out. Shepherd's story in Mass Effect may be influenced by the player, and feel personal, but it is also the artistic expression of Bioware's writers that made it possible.

There is also a difference between marketing and honesty; when they market a game, they hype it up and deliver hyperbole. They can defend this by saying "these were our goals" or "this is our opinion." It's not a fact. It's also not a fact that the game sucked.

You can't petition filmmakers to change endings. You can't petition author's or TV writers, either. Why should games get this treatment?

It's immature, and it is the feeling that you are entitled to the game ending the way you want it to, which you aren't. Neither am I. Nobody is. If you don't like it, that's unfortunate. It sucks that you feel let down, but maybe you need to stop worrying about it so much. You got other shit in your life to occupy that feeling. Let it go.

 

[Vegosiux]

If I am promised a product that does X, I'm entitled to a product that does X, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund. If I am promised a product that does not do Y, I am entitled to a product that does not do Y, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund.

Simple as, I'm entitled to what I was promised I'd get.

In any industry, no matter what product is concerned. And as a consumer, I have my rights. One of my rights is to not have to "suck it up and take it", I am entitled to standing up for myself and actively - and reactively - fight against being ripped off.

That said, this was a general statement, because frankly, I've talked about the specific case of ME3 long enough and I'm not continuing that charade.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

If I am promised a product that does X, I'm entitled to a product that does X, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund. If I am promised a product that does not do Y, I am entitled to a product that does not do Y, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund.

Simple as, I'm entitled to what I was promised I'd get.

In any industry, no matter what product is concerned. And as a consumer, I have my rights. One of my rights is to not have to "suck it up and take it", I am entitled to standing up for myself and actively - and reactively - fight against being ripped off.

That said, this was a general statement, because frankly, I've talked about the specific case of ME3 long enough and I'm not continuing that charade.

Without going into spoiler territory, what were you specifically promised (with a link, preferably) that did not live up to said promise?

 

[tendaji]

If I am promised a product that does X, I'm entitled to a product that does X, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund. If I am promised a product that does not do Y, I am entitled to a product that does not do Y, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund.

Simple as, I'm entitled to what I was promised I'd get.

In any industry, no matter what product is concerned. And as a consumer, I have my rights. One of my rights is to not have to "suck it up and take it", I am entitled to standing up for myself and actively - and reactively - fight against being ripped off.

That said, this was a general statement, because frankly, I've talked about the specific case of ME3 long enough and I'm not continuing that charade.

Without going into spoiler territory, what were you specifically promised (with a link, preferably) that did not live up to said promise?

He's talking about the developer interviews that talked about choices in the games, as well as endings in the games, and how those developer interviews turned out to be false.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

If I am promised a product that does X, I'm entitled to a product that does X, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund. If I am promised a product that does not do Y, I am entitled to a product that does not do Y, otherwise I'm entitled to returning it for a refund.

Simple as, I'm entitled to what I was promised I'd get.

In any industry, no matter what product is concerned. And as a consumer, I have my rights. One of my rights is to not have to "suck it up and take it", I am entitled to standing up for myself and actively - and reactively - fight against being ripped off.

That said, this was a general statement, because frankly, I've talked about the specific case of ME3 long enough and I'm not continuing that charade.

Without going into spoiler territory, what were you specifically promised (with a link, preferably) that did not live up to said promise?

He's talking about the developer interviews that talked about choices in the games, as well as endings in the games, and how those developer interviews turned out to be false.

Can you get specific? Remember that people selling their games will have an optimistic view.

Again, no spoilers. Hate to be a hard on about it, but...

Also, don't judge an entire trilogy around 5 minutes of crap. I don't like a lot of the ME trilogy, but I'm still a fan. You have to consider everything.

 

[putowtin]

If you buy a bag of crisps (chips to you americans) on the promise that these crisps (chips) are cheese flavour but find to your horror that they are infact onion you are entitled to complain.

That is entitlement.

 

[CaptOfSerenity]

Can we stop with analogies that make no sense?

EDIT: Ok, I'm looking at my Deus ex: Human Revolution box, and it says "a perfect mix of action and role play."

It is not perfect. Do I deserve my money back? No, because it's opinion.

And marketing. I think you guys are partially mad because your idealistic vision of Bioware was shattered when ME3 didn't live up to some expectations.

 

[Lucem712]

Movies do this all the time, are movie go-ers entitled because they don't want a bad/lazy ending?

Everyone is acting like gamers are whiny,(I do not support the extremist side, I support upset/rational fans) when people from other industries do this quite often. What is it about games that puts them in a different category. Yes, games are art. But they aren't made for art's sake.

They are made for a profit, that's the point. Without the user/consumer, these IP's do not exist. So, while a game developer is allowed to ignore all complaints, it isn't wise, seeing as they exist because of their user base.

If I buy a car and it breaks down 100 ft before I got to my destination, you could say it's technically functional and technically does everything it promised to, but that doesn't make it immune to a redesign or refund.

 

[Asita]

You know, after reading the OP, I can't help but think that a certain Forbes Article...or two seem very relevant to the claims made.

Can you get specific? Remember that people selling their games will have an optimistic view.

Again, no spoilers. Hate to be a hard on about it, but...

Also, don't judge an entire trilogy around 5 minutes of crap. I don't like a lot of the ME trilogy, but I'm still a fan. You have to consider everything.

They promised that we wouldn't get a "Lost" style ending that raises more questions than it answered, which we ended up getting. They promised a variety of very different endings, we got a choice between at most three options which played out almost identically (Read: If viewed in greyscale they'd be nigh-indistinguishible). We were promised that our choices throughout the series would radically affect the outcome, which they did not. The options available to you at the end are solely dependent on your War Assets value rather than the decisions made to hit that value. We were told that an "A B or C" ending would essentially be anathema given the way the series had played...and then we get one of the more glaring "A B or C" ending choices in recent memory...and mind you, many of these claims were made late in development, some even after the game went 'Golden' (Meaning that it had been vetted for final review by that point).

And that's without getting into the various storytelling faux pas written into the conclusion...how to put it without spoilers...You ever hear of "One More Day" for Spiderman? Suffice to say that the criticisms of that plotline bear an uncanny resemblance to those of Mass Effect 3's ending. Alternatively, you could say that the ending of Mass Effect 3 read like something you'd see if someone wanted to parody the series.

 

[him over there]

I hate to bust this out for the second time today but honestly :

So a single developer that has a very close relationship with its fans did a complete one 180 on it's promises and then caved on modifying their product when it failed to live up to promised features. Not hype but things that were blatantly publicly promised. That isn't entitlement, that's saying you fucked up we want this fixed. At this rate I don't want games to be considered art, I pretty much want them to be all entertainment. Calling them art won't suddenly make them better, not being art won't make them suddenly shitty and regardless of what they're called people with a vision will still make "Art games" whether they qualify as art or not. No matter what they are they will stay the same, some will be crap, some will be awesome and quite frankly the ability to make crappy ones into something awesome by bitching about them is pretty sweet. Fuck artistic integrity bring on the awesome games.

 

[Lupus80]

If I'm willing to pay for them to change their art, then yes I can petition them to change a movie/book/game/peice of art. I'm not forcing them to, I'm just providing incentive for them to change their minds. If they don't want to: then okay they can keep their original ending. If they decide to change it because of my offer, then goody for them too.

As long as they have the choice to do what they want with their creation they keep their integrity.

Any artist worth their chops will listen to criticism, and yes, even sometimes change their minds. You might think they are selling out or folding to the masses, but it is their choice to do so.

 

[viranimus]

Heres the thing about entitlement. If someone thinks they are entitled to something it does not matter how much logic or reason you throw at them, they think they deserve it and nothing you say will change their feelings.

Its been made fairly clear. There are a large group of people who think they deserve a better/different ending for mass effect and nothing is going to deter them from that position, so it is a fruitless task to try to continue to talk to them and convince them to change their positions.

Honestly, best thing to do is let it go, its a waste of time to write it, its a waste of time to read it and the likelihood it will change anyones perspective with a barrage of analogies is fairly nominal at best.

Just...

cause its slightly less annoying and redundant.

 

[Xenedus]

Here's why people are angry: (and seriously you really shouldn't comment on this if you haven't played/seen the ending as you quite literally have no clue what you are talking about)

First off false advertisement: here's a thread with a collection of quotes from the developers while they were trying to hype up the game that they straight up lied about. http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/10405204/1


Second, Anyone who has played the ending knows that the ending renders virtually all your choices throughout the game completely void. People aren't angry because the ending wasn't happy it was the fact that the ending was a giant deus ex machina turd sandwich. It has already been said multiple times that the ending doesn't have to be happy or even successful for that matter but it has to be coherent and provide closure as that is kinda the whole point of an ending.

Third, the art defense is weak at best. Are you implying that art doesn't get criticism? Art is critiqued just as much any other medium and to suggest otherwise is insulting to art in general. The fans are justifiably upset by the ending and they are petitioning Bioware to change the obviously rushed ending to something more coherent because the fans believe that leaving the ending in its current state is harmful to the series as a whole.

Fourth, the "the whole game was the ending" defense doesn't work either. In a series like Mass Effect where the entire premise of the series is the player's actions have consequences and impact to have an ending that renders all of that null and void is unacceptable. There are games that are all about the journey itself and not the destination but Mass Effect is not one of them as it is not some generic shooter/platformer where the story is purely an excuse for the character to run out and kill some enemies.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I feel I'm entitled to come to the Escapist to find threads that aren't all about bloody MASS EFFECT 3.

If I had a wish, I'd wish Mass Effect never existed, so we could finally stop seeing thread 1333: Mass Effect 3's ending wasn't wanted, followed by 1334: You don't deserve a better ending, followed by more Mass Effect 3 crap.


Honestly, Mass Effect 3 has engulfed this site more then My Little Pony ever did.

Wait 'till we get avatars about ME3's endings.

 

[Realitycrash]

I came for the title, I'm gonna stay for the drama -Pulls up feet-

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Entitled is just a buzzword cooked up by the gaming corporations to demonize people who buy second hand.

Let me ask you who is more "entitled". The consumer who A.) Wants the product they were promised they would get B.) Wants the right to resell a game they paid for

OR:
The developers who want to dictate not only how you play your games (DRM, online passes ect...) but also who want to be the ONLY medium that bans second hand games. They even use the excuse that even though you paid for your very own copy of whatever you got, you don't reeeeally own it. Even though money exchanged hands and you were given a physical item in exchange.

Who is the entitled one?

 

[Realitycrash]

Entitled is just a buzzword cooked up by the gaming corporations to demonize people who buy second hand.

Let me ask you who is more "entitled". The consumer who A.) Wants the product they were promised they would get B.) Wants the right to resell a game they paid for

OR:
The developers who want to dictate not only how you play your games (DRM, online passes ect...) but also who want to be the ONLY medium that bans second hand games. They even use the excuse that even though you paid for your very own copy of whatever you got, you don't reeeeally own it. Even though money exchanged hands and you were given a physical item in exchange.

Who is the entitled one?

Uh? "1.give a title to
2.dignify by an honorary designation.
3.give authority (to do something)
4.give rightful ownership
5.give a title to a book, film, play, etc.
"

From Wiktionary. To "Feel entitled" is to feel that they have the rightful authority on the subject to demand something. But that is just the thing, most people haven't.
Gamers don't have the right to demand a specific ending, no matter how much it sucks.
So you were promised a multiflavored spazzstastic ending? Well, development changes, and you can't take those "promises" seriously.
And no, you can't compare this to an actuall,physical product, since this is the matter of aesthetics.

 

[spacemutant IV]

I wrote a lengthy post in one of the Mass Effect 3 Ending threads where I said that people should get the fuck over it, and that maybe such an emotional response was what the writers were trying to accomlish. But I haven't played any of the games, and it might have been a mistake for me to think I could talk about the subject sensibly. The way I understand it now, after reading up about it, (Shamus Young's blog post) is that the ending sucks in a multitude of ways, of which the 'bittersweet without anything actually being sweet'-part is but the most rehashed one, because it is the one non-fans can most easily relate to without knowing about the universe. So now I think that Bioware deserves all the shit its getting, and I am glad I never sunk so many hours into the franchise as other people did, and I know I won't ever.

Well, now I realize I am not quite meeting the point of this thread, but it seems I can't delete this post (hi, I'm new). So to meet the criteria I will elaborate a bit on what I think about entitlement here.

The issue is a different one here than it would be if this were a movie. Games of course are an interactive medium, and player behaviour, choices etc. should make for most if not all of the experience. That means that on a most fundamental level, gamers are in-fucking-deed 'entitled' to a game that responds to the choices they make in a certain predictable way, to about the same degree a movie going audience is entitled to see actual moving pictures to go along with what could just as well be an audio play. That doesn't mean that you should always be able to tell how such a response will look like. You don't have a right to a happy ending, but you have a right to an ending that takes into account what you did, even if it puts a new spin on your actions and, for example, lets you know at the very end of the story that you were the bad guy all along. The way I understand it now, Mass Effect 3 just didn't deliver, and while it's true that other games didn't deliver before, the backlash now is determined by the franchises own previous insistence that it would. Bioware can suck it.