Escapist Podcast: 036: Mass Effect 3 & Tali Stock Photos

[The Escapist Staff]

036: Mass Effect 3 & Tali Stock Photos

This week, we discuss some of our first impressions on Mass Effect 3 (of those of us who didn't review it), the controversy surrounding the use of stock photography in the game and whether or not a bad ending can ruin a whole game. We also respond to a number of your questions.

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[superbowlbound]

You have got to be kidding me? A reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for is done by 10 minutes in photoshop (seriously, for a person mildly skilled that's all it takes) is okay? Especially because the Quarians are described differently. It's such a pathetic lazy cop-out, for a AAA game with a multi-million dollar budget? I would understand if its XBLA or a small studio, but this is something that is incredibly hyped and anticipated! I honestly can't believe you are defending this! Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then. Or how about they use one of the ridiculous amount of concept faces they created? But no, that takes time to render faces, so instead we will focus on making every character you make eye contact with a romance option. I am not sure how much EA is paying you guys, but can you stop white knighting for Bioware and EA, they are just money grabbing companies that unfortunately no longer care about their fans.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then.

No? Because I rather think we'd be getting the same hysterical accusations of laziness, only this time it would be "BioWare was too lazy to show us Tali's face".

And, if I may, a semi-spoilery ME3 question for our talented podcasters: while I applaud BioWare's decision to have a wide and diverse array of potential romances, it seems to me that some of those characters are given more weight or detail than others - for example, in comparing the two men a male Shepard can pursue, there's a _world_ of difference in how the scenes play out (one's sweet but lasts about ten seconds, the other could practically melt a cheese sandwich from across the room). Is this a subtle attempt at railroading, where "approved" romances are explored at greater length? Or might there be some other reason for the different approaches?

 

[gyro2death]

You have got to be kidding me? A reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for is done by 10 minutes in photoshop (seriously, for a person mildly skilled that's all it takes) is okay? Especially because the Quarians are described differently. It's such a pathetic lazy cop-out, for a AAA game with a multi-million dollar budget? I would understand if its XBLA or a small studio, but this is something that is incredibly hyped and anticipated! I honestly can't believe you are defending this! Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then. Or how about they use one of the ridiculous amount of concept faces they created? But no, that takes time to render faces, so instead we will focus on making every character you make eye contact with a romance option. I am not sure how much EA is paying you guys, but can you stop white knighting for Bioware and EA, they are just money grabbing companies that unfortunately no longer care about their fans.

I have to agree mostly, I don't understand how they can so easily dismiss this, saying that the variety of the game allows them to skimp on something like this, this isn't a small portion of t he community either that will experience this, tally is the most popular romance option in ME 2 according to polls, and they've been building this up like crazy. It seems like last minute they decided to add it in and didn't have time to decide on a face so they went to stock photography, which is a shame, because it would have been better left a mystery than a last minute descision.

Also one final note, I would like to make it clear that NO EFFORT went into that photo, anyone who says that they spent effort on making that photo look part of the universe is a) retarded or b) hasn't played ME, because the picture is outside in a park with no environment suit on, of which is impossible for any Quarian. If your fine with them using stock photography then go for it and speak your peice, but defending it so blindly that you don't know what your saying is suspect of your intentions.

 

[-Dragmire-]

Yes! Raptor, god I loved that game!

Zone-66 was another game from around the same era that I loved as well although it wasn't a top-scroller.

 

[Yoshisummons]

I completed both Super Mario Galaxies within a week with no hassle, after getting some wii points I bought Super Mario World. To this day I still haven't beaten it.

 

[superbowlbound]

Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then.

No? Because I rather think we'd be getting the same hysterical accusations of laziness, only this time it would be "BioWare was too lazy to show us Tali's face".

I assumed after the romance in the second game they weren't going to show her face, and I was fine with that. I don't see why it matters if I can see her face, I would always prefer to never see it then have a lazy reveal.

 

[Kristian Fischer]

You have got to be kidding me? A reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for is done by 10 minutes in photoshop (seriously, for a person mildly skilled that's all it takes) is okay? Especially because the Quarians are described differently. It's such a pathetic lazy cop-out, for a AAA game with a multi-million dollar budget? I would understand if its XBLA or a small studio, but this is something that is incredibly hyped and anticipated! I honestly can't believe you are defending this! Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then. Or how about they use one of the ridiculous amount of concept faces they created? But no, that takes time to render faces, so instead we will focus on making every character you make eye contact with a romance option. I am not sure how much EA is paying you guys, but can you stop white knighting for Bioware and EA, they are just money grabbing companies that unfortunately no longer care about their fans.

Personally, I don't think they should have asked their fan base about this in the first place, because it was sure to make people pissed off, and we know what kind of waaaaah-waaaah whining we get when people get pissed off on Te Internets.

Also, what evidence do you have that "EA is paying The Escapist"? I mean, OTHER than the fact that they said something you disagreed with, and you're calling them names and being a small child.

As Susan Arendt once put it succinctly, lighten up, Francis.

 

[Kristian Fischer]

I have to agree mostly, I don't understand how they can so easily dismiss this, saying that the variety of the game allows them to skimp on something like this, this isn't a small portion of t he community either that will experience this, tally is the most popular romance option in ME 2 according to polls, and they've been building this up like crazy. It seems like last minute they decided to add it in and didn't have time to decide on a face so they went to stock photography, which is a shame, because it would have been better left a mystery than a last minute descision.

Also one final note, I would like to make it clear that NO EFFORT went into that photo, anyone who says that they spent effort on making that photo look part of the universe is a) retarded or b) hasn't played ME, because the picture is outside in a park with no environment suit on, of which is impossible for any Quarian. If your fine with them using stock photography then go for it and speak your peice, but defending it so blindly that you don't know what your saying is suspect of your intentions.

Er, were you listening? They've ALL played it.

As I said in my last post, I think Bioware mishandled this, but it's also a teeny-tiny-itsy-bitsy little aspect of the game, and one that in my view doesn't warrant this kind of hostility, especially towards a third party.

Far more serious (not to me, but in general) is the bug regarding importing your save games from earlier Mass Effects. That's something which has been trumpeted as A Big Deal, and the game doesn't seem to be able to live up to it.

Everybody has an opinion, but calling people names and being childish is no way to get people to listen to yours, once you're old enough to start shaving.

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

I assumed after the romance in the second game they weren't going to show her face, and I was fine with that. I don't see why it matters if I can see her face, I would always prefer to never see it then have a lazy reveal.

The thing about the "Mass Effect" series, though, is that a _lot_ of it comes down to personal preference. You romanced Tali, you'd rather not see her face, fine. You don't even see the photo unless a specific event occurs. But that's a long way from "a reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for."

The reality is that for a game like ME3, BioWare categorically would _not_ have been able to please everyone. Don't show her face at all, you'll hear "What do Quarians look like?" at every single press conference. Create a full render for an optional scene that lasts a few seconds? Oh, BioWare is basically _forcing_ you to fulfill a specific story requirement in order to see the image in the first place.

Given all that, I just don't see the big deal. If you've seen the photo, you know what Tali looks like. Who cares where the image came from? I don't see anyone screaming about Male Shepard being based on Mark Vanderloo...

 

[Kristian Fischer]

I don't see anyone screaming about Male Shepard being based on Mark Vanderloo...

I think they should have based him on Yahtzee Crowshaw.

 

[Kristian Fischer]

Also, for the people who claim The Escapist is taking money from game publishers for favourable reviews: have you seen their offices? They work in a basement.

If I had a vacuum pump in EA's wallet, I'd make finding a better office than that a priority...

 

[Diana Kingston-Gabai]

I think they should have based him on Yahtzee Crowshaw.

Complete with N7 hat!

 

[Kristian Fischer]

Yep!

 

[krellen]

I don't see anyone screaming about Male Shepard being based on Mark Vanderloo...

My main problem isn't that they just photoshopped an image. My problem is that they just photoshopped some random stock image. They should have gotten Liz Sroka to pose and photoshopped that.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

inb4 people say this is about aesthetics and not about BioWare not giving a fuck.

 

[superbowlbound]

You have got to be kidding me? A reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for is done by 10 minutes in photoshop (seriously, for a person mildly skilled that's all it takes) is okay? Especially because the Quarians are described differently. It's such a pathetic lazy cop-out, for a AAA game with a multi-million dollar budget? I would understand if its XBLA or a small studio, but this is something that is incredibly hyped and anticipated! I honestly can't believe you are defending this! Wouldn't it have been better to not ever show their faces? No one would have complained then. Or how about they use one of the ridiculous amount of concept faces they created? But no, that takes time to render faces, so instead we will focus on making every character you make eye contact with a romance option. I am not sure how much EA is paying you guys, but can you stop white knighting for Bioware and EA, they are just money grabbing companies that unfortunately no longer care about their fans.

Personally, I don't think they should have asked their fan base about this in the first place, because it was sure to make people pissed off, and we know what kind of waaaaah-waaaah whining we get when people get pissed off on Te Internets.

Also, what evidence do you have that "EA is paying The Escapist"? I mean, OTHER than the fact that they said something you disagreed with, and you're calling them names and being a small child.

As Susan Arendt once put it succinctly, lighten up, Francis.

I am confused when they asked their fans, Maybe it would have been acceptable if they had crowd sourced her face. And I am confused how you repudiated my point, I'll admit the last line was out of anger, but the rest was name calling to avoid your inability to correct anything I have said. Please stop your blind love of Bioware, they are no longer the company that made Mass Effect, they are now the company that made Dragon Age 2.

 

[superbowlbound]

I assumed after the romance in the second game they weren't going to show her face, and I was fine with that. I don't see why it matters if I can see her face, I would always prefer to never see it then have a lazy reveal.

The thing about the "Mass Effect" series, though, is that a _lot_ of it comes down to personal preference. You romanced Tali, you'd rather not see her face, fine. You don't even see the photo unless a specific event occurs. But that's a long way from "a reveal that people have been waiting 6 years for."

The reality is that for a game like ME3, BioWare categorically would _not_ have been able to please everyone. Don't show her face at all, you'll hear "What do Quarians look like?" at every single press conference. Create a full render for an optional scene that lasts a few seconds? Oh, BioWare is basically _forcing_ you to fulfill a specific story requirement in order to see the image in the first place.

Given all that, I just don't see the big deal. If you've seen the photo, you know what Tali looks like. Who cares where the image came from? I don't see anyone screaming about Male Shepard being based on Mark Vanderloo...

So what you're saying is that this company with a 25 million dollar budget couldn't waste 20 minutes coming up with a character design and 1 hour rendering it. Instead they spent maybe 5 minutes (not an exaggeration) lazily editing a stock photo. Heck, look at her hand, they missed a knuckle and didn't blend the fingers correctly at all. The problem isn't my opportunity to see the image, it's the fact that she is an alien race and its basically just a human with glowing eyes and black lines (and hair?!? In a clean suit, come on!). What other alien race is even close to that lazy? The Asari are about that closest to humans and they are still really really different. Open your eyes, they cut corners with the plot, dialouge, art design, testing, and fun; this is just one of many examples.

 

[Grape_Bullion]

Love how you guys left out the fact that the photo is a terrible fucking photoshop. "Care was taken to make this photo"? Are you kidding me mate? More care is taken when one decides to make a bowel movement. The question has never been that people are upset with the aesthetics of Tali, it's how BioWare went about creating her face. And if you're honestly fine with a AAA game not finding the time to put that effort in a character of Tali's importance, I really doubt you played the game for the story and you'd much rather scan planets, as you so pointed out in the podcast.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

no longer care about their fans.

You say that as if they once did.

Naivety. It amuses me.