EVE Online still popular... I wish someone would make a game that was more fun.

[Romag]

You know theres nothing I love more than a good space game. Wing Commander, Tachyon, Freelancer... Theres just something about controlling your own starship, zooming around the galaxy blowing stuff up with lasers, that brings a feeling of freedom that seems so absent with today's ultra realistic shooters.

EVE Online... Everytime I see an EVE online AD I get angry... The game seems so perfect. You get a ship, you can easily earn money, and buy bigger ships. You can customize stuff to the point where a tricked out fighter can almost go toe to toe with a crappy battleship. Plus theres a sense of galactic scale that you don't get to see very often in todays games. Theres only one problem... The SKILL SYSTEM!

Every thing in the game requires training in the skill to use it or do it. If you want that new mining laser- need the skill. If you want to start a corporation - skill. Bigger ship? -skill... That wouldn't be a problem either, skills are easily acquired and usually cheap... Unfortunately you also have to train in them!

Theres the problem... at least at the time when I played. You would have to train in a skill and training wouldn't be something logical -like doing something related to the skill so you could get better and then get the skill- No you would click 'train skill' and you would just wait. Between 15 minutes and.... months. Some skills would actually take over a month to train, and even with implants and learning skills (which also take massive amounts of time) the time doesn't decrease all that much. You can't set a que either (or at least you couldn't when I played) you would have to physically go into the game and set the next skill you wanted trained. It got to the point when I would set an alarm to wake me up when I wanted to train my next skill.

Finally I said "screw it!" If the only way of improving my experience is by waiting for a month to get a skill- screw it! The developers should have made the game a little more fun (anyone remember fun) and made getting skill points related to activities in the game rather than how much time I spend paying for the game. If you are going to make an RPG (yes, this is an RPG) then do something like oblivion and when I shoot something, give me a point in the 'shooting things' skill.

Until then I'll be annoyed by EVE ads calling it "MIND - BLOWING" (maybe by that they mean you want to blow your brains out?) and wait for a better space game... Spore anyone?

 

[Sib]

if youre willing to endure mind numbingly retarded devs go to Star Wars Galaxies and play space in there, to be fair though the devs are smart enough not to interfere with space. they seem more interested in nerfing everyone except jedi >.<

sorry i started to rant a bit there didnt i?

anyway yes, space SWG give it a look

 

[Singing Gremlin]

Yeah, because having everyone be able to powergame up to capital ships within a few weeks would be FAR better. The skill system regulates what players can do, so you always have variation within fleets. Plus it means you can focus on the IMPORTANT stuff, like blowing the brains out of poor players just trying to mine in low sec, rather than having to dick about leveling.

 

[PIPboy]

Meh just play Freelancer AGAIN with the mod on it

 

[Xanrae]

Just like Guild Wars, EVE innovates - and of course, receives flak from people who disapprove of innovation. [*]


'Getting better at a skill by using it' is a flawed concept, because it encourages, worse, requires grinding and (in case of combat skills) fighting the same enemies over and over with the skill you want to train because diversifying would mean slower skill gains.

I thought the point was to increase variety within a game, not force the player to keep doing the same thing to level up his skills.


[*] There is superficial innovation (the gravity gun) and meaningful innovation. Changing the skill system would certainly qualify as meaningful innovation.

 

[-Javelin-]

EVE is wicked fun, i dont have an account myself but my friend does and it's hilarious getting high then going and ganking people. The responses you'll get from some people are just so funny.

 

[Eudaemonian]

Which is better:

DOING something to raise your competence
NOT DOING anything to raise your competence

I had the same EVE experience, it seemed amazing so I decided to give it a shot and the fact that I could wait months without being decent at anything was just so daunting I decided not to get into it at all.

It is a fallacy that skilling up necessarily involves grinding, unless people have gotten to the point where they'll describe ANYTHING as grinding. "Man, FPSes are full of gun grinding, you have to grind the trigger key to kill all the guys." Unless you are that crazy at this point, there are alternatives to grind. Complete a quest to raise your skill. Have pre-requisite trees. I understand that the point of the skill system is to keep everyone from fiending out and having awesome stuff in no time, but in the end it discourages you from playing because what really improves your character is not something you have any influence over.

Imagine a traditional RPG with this kind of system. "Man, this boss is hard. I'm going to not play for a week, then I'll be strong enough to beat it." Or in a PnP setting, "Hey DM, I'm not too keen on being a lvl 5 Wizard, uhm, can you call me in a couple months when I'm a lvl 16 Wizard/ 4 Archmage?"

It's senseless. The goal is admirable, the means of attaining it sap one of the most important parts of a game for me. The sense that what I do makes my character better in a substantial way and that the only thing between me and being awesome is my own personal effort, not time.

 

[Melaisis]

I think the key to EVE is the community. If you have a good corp to drive you, then you forget about the pointless, time-consuming and money wasting flaws in the skill system altogether.

 

[Eudaemonian]

I think a good group of friends could have fun kicking a rock around in the dirt. That does not make "Rock In Dirt 5" an awesome game.

 

[Singing Gremlin]

It's a common misconception that a character is fucked until he's spent 3 years pissing about in high sec sec. Players a few weeks old make valuable additions to a fleet, and I have got to the point of solo PvPin by the end of the 14-day trial. Play time is only a hinderance if you're determined to be, and while in most games the two main power sources of a player (level and money) can both be very quickly raised to a very high standard via powergaming and buying money, at least in EvE the prior is regulated and forces a reasonably standard progression. Plus, its a game of danger, you can lose a lot very quickly if you're not careful, and the sense that there's always someone better than you helps the atmosphere.

 

[OldSkoolGeezer]

I think a good group of friends could have fun kicking a rock around in the dirt. That does not make "Rock In Dirt 5" an awesome game.

Don't make fun...this game has the largest subscription base worldwide.

 

[JakubK666]

@ Romag

You should try Flysis.It's the new version of (RIP) Space Cowboy Online - action-oriented MMO with heavy PvP. Space/Flying Fans should check it out



PS: The game is only in closed beta right now and it should be available in February.

 

[PhoenixFlame]

EVE's secret to its longevity is also the reason why it will never really become as popular as other MMO games in its genre. It's a game geared towards a niche audience - the type that likes both consequences and realism with their PvP and also like to make informed decisions in a persistent world with regards to their skills, economy, and overall character/ship development. In a time where some MMO's fall flat on their face due to a variety of factors, EVE is one of those games that will probably be around for a long time to come.

I played EVE and it wasn't my cup of tea, but I can see why it's still around today. It's fun - for a certain type of game player.

As for "space" MMO's, we probably won't see anything for quite some time, but Star Trek and Stargate-based MMO's will hopefully be out in the future, so that'll widen the choices somewhat.

 

[Mr Wednesday]

Jeez Xanrae, what a post. Simply because the OP doesn't like Eve's skill system doesn't necesarily mean he's "against innovation".

I've never played Eve, but from the post I can understand his complaint. If you disagree, thats your call, but don't hide behind pretention in an attempt to make your own subjective view seem objective in some way.

 

[Niccolo]

Bleh. Xanrae, innovation is good. Innovation is very good. But when said innovation calls for you to go and entertain yourself for a month to become better, innovative game is kinda... bad, don't you think?

It does regulate powerlevelling (and so is probably good in some respects) but it certainly could have been handled better. Maybe actively involve you a little more in the process? "You want to have the necessary skills to use this laser? Here, read this manual. At the end, answer a series of five questions! 4/5 gives you increased skill, and a perfect score gives you bonus points!"

Best of both worlds.

And that's why I don't play MMORPGs.

 

[lordkosc]

I'm on my 2nd month of EvE since the Trinity Expansion, game is lots of fun if you don't want to play something that requires 100% attention at all times. I like to mine, its quiet , calming and an easy way to earn the big bucks!

 

[IonMaiden]

I have been playing EVE online for almost 2 years, and yes, the skill system is a bit annoying at times, but tbh, I prefer it and It's the only mmo I play nowadays. Once you have found a good corp and can start to have fun pvping, it really is awesome, bonds start to form and you really do feel like you can make a difference in a fight. For me, it's all about having fun pvping with friends, you risk it all and either win or lose, I still get an adrenaline rush when I get a good fight and that's my favourite part about the game. I know it's not everyones cup of tea, and I respect that.

 

[Prons]

I like EVE's concept, but I'm too dumb to play it.

 

[Eudaemonian]

I like EVE's concept, but I'm too dumb to play it.

As much as I'd like to make philosophical arguments against its skill system, this actually happens to be one of my major reasons for not playing it. I'm sure, in time, I could know what I'm doing... but I spend enough time studying the law without having the study my mmo. "Mind-blowing" as the ad says, is pretty accurate. It has interface, customization, and options out the ass.... overwhelming.

That and I'm a coward who doesn't like losing hard earned stuff... hah

 

[Singing Gremlin]

Yeah, Eud makes a fair point. The learning curve would be well summed up by a picture of a very tall wall followed by a steep hill. Once you've grasped the basics, and got over the wall so to speak, however, the game does become a lot clearer. Its just a shame you kinda have to learn a lot of stuff at once as opposed to being eased into it.