Fast and Furious PHYSICS!

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Anakinnnn

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Mar 5, 2010
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Fast and Furious 6 Superbowl Trailer
If you guys haven't seen it, check it out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjy7RWV3JHw

Colby Dane and I both watched it and figured just the trailer alone was worth a month of episodes on Reel Physics! LOL!!

I can't wait for this release...

Jason Dean
REEL PHYSICS
 

Eleuthera

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Sep 11, 2008
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Did... did they pull an aircraft to the ground using an Alpha Romeo?...
 

jklinders

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Sep 21, 2010
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Eleuthera said:
Did... did they pull an aircraft to the ground using an Alpha Romeo?...
Yes they did.

Now I want to see the reel physics of that. And I can't even stand the premise of these movies
 

barbzilla

He who speaks words from mouth!
Dec 6, 2010
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jklinders said:
Eleuthera said:
Did... did they pull an aircraft to the ground using an Alpha Romeo?...
Yes they did.

Now I want to see the reel physics of that. And I can't even stand the premise of these movies
Yeah, that would be Reel Physics, not real. Lift beats traction any day of the week. Unless they have the worlds densest car, or perhaps some form of gravity amplifying machine.
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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barbzilla said:
jklinders said:
Eleuthera said:
Did... did they pull an aircraft to the ground using an Alpha Romeo?...
Yes they did.

Now I want to see the reel physics of that. And I can't even stand the premise of these movies
Yeah, that would be Reel Physics, not real. Lift beats traction any day of the week. Unless they have the worlds densest car, or perhaps some form of gravity amplifying machine.
a gravity amplifying machine like a half ton object tied to a 40 ft+ lever, for example?

anyhoo, the clip, as presented looks like nonsense imo you're not going to drag a plane out of the air like that unless you drop a tank on it and if you attach the car to the center point of the plane, obviously lift will prevail as we know the plane is capable of lifting several cars worth of weight easily no questions asked
however i think it has some merit in that you may be able to drag a wing down enough if you suddenly apply allot of force to it to unbalance the aerodynamics and cause the wing lift to be unbalanced right to left you could send the plane into a roll by using it's own lift against it ( that is how it rolls itself, after all )
it really depends how much roll you can generate with your ailerons to counter it because there's essentially nothing holding the plane straight, i'm fairly confident if you simply stick a half ton weight on one wing you'll encourage a roll or spin

that said the forces you can generate with huge aerodynamic surfaces like alerons is unbelieveable so i'd say it's advantage plane to begin with
depends how fast the plane can compensate for the force across it's roll center and the deflection caused in the wing
by having a half ton object attached to it which in turn depends on the air speed.. and probably many other factors

honestly i doubt anyone knows the *actual* answer to this one, because why would they? fun to theorize though
a little Google reveals no info on planes loosing engines, which is the only situation i can imagine even remotely close to this

personally i wouldn't put this one directly in the impossible category, but there are easier ways to crash a plane for sure an anti tank grenade ( sticky bomb ) on the wing fuel tank would do the trick easily enough

definately interested to see what the phys guys make of it too,
i wouldn't even know where to start with the math here frankly there's too-much going on
 

barbzilla

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Dec 6, 2010
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The Lugz said:
barbzilla said:
jklinders said:
Eleuthera said:
Did... did they pull an aircraft to the ground using an Alpha Romeo?...
Yes they did.

Now I want to see the reel physics of that. And I can't even stand the premise of these movies
Yeah, that would be Reel Physics, not real. Lift beats traction any day of the week. Unless they have the worlds densest car, or perhaps some form of gravity amplifying machine.
a gravity amplifying machine like a half ton object tied to a 40 ft+ lever, for example?

anyhoo, the clip, as presented looks like nonsense imo you're not going to drag a plane out of the air like that unless you drop a tank on it and if you attach the car to the center point of the plane, obviously lift will prevail as we know the plane is capable of lifting several cars worth of weight easily no questions asked
however i think it has some merit in that you may be able to drag a wing down enough if you suddenly apply allot of force to it to unbalance the aerodynamics and cause the wing lift to be unbalanced right to left you could send the plane into a roll by using it's own lift against it ( that is how it rolls itself, after all )
it really depends how much roll you can generate with your ailerons to counter it because there's essentially nothing holding the plane straight, i'm fairly confident if you simply stick a half ton weight on one wing you'll encourage a roll or spin

that said the forces you can generate with huge aerodynamic surfaces like alerons is unbelieveable so i'd say it's advantage plane to begin with
depends how fast the plane can compensate for the force across it's roll center and the deflection caused in the wing
by having a half ton object attached to it which in turn depends on the air speed.. and probably many other factors

honestly i doubt anyone knows the *actual* answer to this one, because why would they? fun to theorize though
a little Google reveals no info on planes loosing engines, which is the only situation i can imagine even remotely close to this

personally i wouldn't put this one directly in the impossible category, but there are easier ways to crash a plane for sure an anti tank grenade ( sticky bomb ) on the wing fuel tank would do the trick easily enough

definately interested to see what the phys guys make of it too,
i wouldn't even know where to start with the math here frankly there's too-much going on
Even attaching the car to the wing, driving forward wouldn't help much. Because of the lift (I am sure that even attached to one wing a jet can create enough lift to cause a major loss in traction. I should probably watch the video that we are talking about though when I get home. It will give me a better idea on how to judge the physics behind it. Either way I hold to the idea that lift beats traction, since a high powered sports car requires downward force to maintain enough traction on the tires to prevent the tires from just spinning out.

EDIT: I hadn't watched the video before this point, so I thought they were trying to snatch a plane from the air in full flight. Thus the confusion as to how people could even question if it was real physics.
After watching the video in question there may be some merit to the thought. I don't find it likely to happen, but considering that the plane isn't fully airborn yet, this is somewhat possible. Depending on the weight of the car, and the weight of the plane (plus the inertial points based on center of gravity), it could happen. I am guessing though what you would see is the car accelerating forward at high speed, then either the cable snaps (those cables don't do well under sudden force, just watch the Mythbusters Batmobile episode), the back tires lift just enough to cause the car to lose traction and slow back down (provided it is a rear wheel drive car), or it would tip the wing enough to cause the plan to tip a little encouraging the pilot to just land the plane.

Math wise what you need to look at is the load weight of that cable, the load weight of the attached areas (it looks like it claws into the plane), the weight of the car, the force generated by the speed difference between the car and the plane, the amount of lift one wing produces, the kinetic energy of the plane based on the location of the grapple point and the center of gravity, and finally the amount of force needed to lift the rear wheels off the ground causing the forward thrust to cease on the car.
 

The Lugz

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Apr 23, 2011
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barbzilla said:
I am guessing though what you would see is the car accelerating forward at high speed, then either the cable snaps (those cables don't do well under sudden force, just watch the Mythbusters Batmobile episode), the back tires lift just enough to cause the car to lose traction and slow back down (provided it is a rear wheel drive car), or it would tip the wing enough to cause the plan to tip a little encouraging the pilot to just land the plane.

Math wise what you need to look at is the load weight of that cable, the load weight of the attached areas (it looks like it claws into the plane), the weight of the car, the force generated by the speed difference between the car and the plane, the amount of lift one wing produces, the kinetic energy of the plane based on the location of the grapple point and the center of gravity, and finally the amount of force needed to lift the rear wheels off the ground causing the forward thrust to cease on the car.

i agree, thin metal cables under shock loads fail quite frequently because the strands can never be perfectly aligned and one inevitably takes most of the strain and causes a chain reaction of small shocks to snap the remaining strands one by one as they are tensioned
this is the most likely outcome, imo

but let's assume the plane dosent just snap the cable, and it tries to take off with a car attached to it's wing
it's going to be lifting the car, so the car wo'nt be producing any kind of force beyoind it's initial inertia and
it's weight on the cable
( this is why i say the clip as presented looks like nonsense,
i don't think any car could simply pull a plane from the air )

the 'merit' i see in this scene is this:
let's assume the initial inertia doesn't rip the plane from the air and just look at the weight and drag on the wing
that's what i think has a chance of downing the plane

a sensible pilot would just land, immediately if he saw a car fire a grapple onto his plane
or saw any roll on his instruments
but does he have time? how long would crashing take versus a pilot's ability to land and at what height
would that cause the plane to hit the ground unacceptably hard
if the pilot does react and attempt to land would his loss of airspeed, lift and control cause the car
to down the plane?

now, obviously i don't have, and would never try this with an actual passenger liner but i can do a simple
practical experiment to examine the forces involved and 'what they do'

i just made a paper airplane and attached paper clips to the wing, the result is the plane dives left but it is correctable by bending the wings in opposition and producing roll, this causes the plane to drift sideways slightly
but it remains aloft HOWEVER, when it slows down it falls out of the air sideways supprisingly quickly
my conclusion is it's just about the force required to overcome control surface correction
( the mass of air displaced by the rudder and ailerons )
the airspeed seems to be the critical figure here
surprisingly ( to me at-least ) the plane may stay in the air and simply ignore a car dangling off it's wing
but Only if it's travelling fast enough
madness!

still want to see what the phys guys do with it, it's a fun example.