Fellow Christians...

[Arsen]

What is your thought on gnosticism? Do you agree with it? Do you view it as deterring from the centerpoint of Christianity or do you view from more an "it's Christian philosophy" kind of light?

I am half and half on this one from what I have read. True there are some points which don't matter, yet there are some which I believe mankind constructed at that point in time to find a more "keen" knowledge in God. They combined what knowledge they had with what they knew and it became the sect of Christianity as we see it today.

 

[007Loser]

Did you mean to say agnosticism?

 

[ChocoCake]

Well, my Old Testament teacher in my Religions class talked about it for a bit. He said they were bad people or something, so I thought I might as well agree, since I do not know much on the subject, well isn't that what religion is all about?
Either way, I want your badge, you know which one.

 

[Arsen]

Did you mean to say agnosticism?

No. Big difference.

Look up "Christian Gnostic".

 

[BurnoutPriest]

I'm actually atheist but I'd like to chime in. My understanding is gnosticism was declared a heresy quite a while ago. (At least by the Catholic church. I can't remember if that was before or after the Schism) Anyway, my personal view on it is that it is an extreme devaluing of nature and humanity. This declaration that "everything of the flesh" is evil puts off most Christians due to some of the self-inflicted torture and hate of family that arise from it.

 

[blindey]

For the uninitiated, Gnosticism is a branch of Christianity, and is one of the books in the Apocryphal (books that weren't published in the bible, titled the Gnostic Gospel, the Gospel of Mary, the Gospel of Judas, etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fathers_of_Christian_Gnosticism

http://www.thepearl.org/What_is_Gnosticism.htm

 

[electric discordian]

To be honest everything people chose to believe is fine, as long as that belief doesnt involve setting fire to people or putting babies on spikes. But I would say that Im a pagan however a friend of mine is a dyed in the woll Gnostic christian and he is about the only devout christian I have ever seriously got on with, admittedly devout in his own way.

This is slightly off topic but the Eddie Izzard dvd Circle has a brilliant set of stand up about religion and its strange inconsistencies, thought everyone may find it amusing.

 

[Bagaloo]

Woah. From what I can gather from the first few paragraphs on wiki, its the belief that "humans are divine souls trapped within a material world created by an imperfect God"?

I'm not so sure about us being divine souls. We do some pretty nasty shit. Though I can relate more the the idea of an imperfect God. It sounds much more feasable than the usual "God is all knowing and all powerful", because I always end up thinking 'that must mean he can fix everything thats wrong with the world if he wants to, so why doesn't he?'.

*Edit*
It seems I got mixed up between gnosticism and Christian gnosticism. Useful posts were made whilst I was typing out my post.

 

[TerraMGP]

I think it is a logical conclusion, but a wrong one. The more I read the bible and look it over I think that they kind of have it backwards. Personally I think god is perfect, or at least as perfect as something can be, however I think that god also wants to give us choice and let us find out what the consequences for our actions are. Think of it this way, God is the DM. I know I have said this before but its the easiest way to explain it. Its gods setting, he wrote the system, we operate within the confines of those rules and therefore he can't be wrong. However god chose to give us free will, to let the players do what they wanted. Sometimes I think he pulls out the DM stick, but not nearly as much as people say. hes that seasoned subtle DM that overall wants to try and make the game fun by not putting too many restrictions on things.

But because of that our actions cause problems for others, our selfishness harms others. God does not cause the problems, but he does not step in to stop them. Its on us. I see the bible as the players handbook, one that people have written in or somehow added pages to. Its our job to get the 'good life' bit from the rest of it.

Gnostics may not be wrong, I don't know, but frankly I think that the logic of it is a bit off. The more I look at it perosnally, the more It seems god is the 'well you guys are kinda getting it, but your the players so its on you guys" kind of DM.

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

Clarence Darrow

"I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure. "

I have no idea what this means. As for agnosticism, in my personal opinion it's just being an atheist and not wanting to be shunned by society or just don't know it yet. A handful of my friends are atheists, but they said they were agnostic. I pressed the issue the tiniest bit and they admitted to being atheists. I have never met an agnostic who has stayed that one.

EDIT: This probably won't work for everyone.

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

I think it is a logical conclusion, but a wrong one. The more I read the bible and look it over I think that they kind of have it backwards. Personally I think god is perfect, or at least as perfect as something can be, however I think that god also wants to give us choice and let us find out what the consequences for our actions are. Think of it this way, God is the DM. I know I have said this before but its the easiest way to explain it. Its gods setting, he wrote the system, we operate within the confines of those rules and therefore he can't be wrong. However god chose to give us free will, to let the players do what they wanted. Sometimes I think he pulls out the DM stick, but not nearly as much as people say. hes that seasoned subtle DM that overall wants to try and make the game fun by not putting too many restrictions on things.

But because of that our actions cause problems for others, our selfishness harms others. God does not cause the problems, but he does not step in to stop them. Its on us. I see the bible as the players handbook, one that people have written in or somehow added pages to. Its our job to get the 'good life' bit from the rest of it.

Gnostics may not be wrong, I don't know, but frankly I think that the logic of it is a bit off. The more I look at it perosnally, the more It seems god is the 'well you guys are kinda getting it, but your the players so its on you guys" kind of DM.

Who's DM?

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I moved this to another thread because it was more pertinant to that one, cheerio.

 

[TerraMGP]

I think it is a logical conclusion, but a wrong one. The more I read the bible and look it over I think that they kind of have it backwards. Personally I think god is perfect, or at least as perfect as something can be, however I think that god also wants to give us choice and let us find out what the consequences for our actions are. Think of it this way, God is the DM. I know I have said this before but its the easiest way to explain it. Its gods setting, he wrote the system, we operate within the confines of those rules and therefore he can't be wrong. However god chose to give us free will, to let the players do what they wanted. Sometimes I think he pulls out the DM stick, but not nearly as much as people say. hes that seasoned subtle DM that overall wants to try and make the game fun by not putting too many restrictions on things.

But because of that our actions cause problems for others, our selfishness harms others. God does not cause the problems, but he does not step in to stop them. Its on us. I see the bible as the players handbook, one that people have written in or somehow added pages to. Its our job to get the 'good life' bit from the rest of it.

Gnostics may not be wrong, I don't know, but frankly I think that the logic of it is a bit off. The more I look at it perosnally, the more It seems god is the 'well you guys are kinda getting it, but your the players so its on you guys" kind of DM.

DM analogy doesn't hold up; a DM won't set you on fire once the game's over.

Neither will god if you use the ACTUAL translation. The concept of hell was most likely added by the romans. According to the Jewish faith the closest you come is regret for a life not well lived.

 

[HSIAMetalKing]

I'm not exactly "christian" and I haven't read the Wikis that have been posted, but I disagree with this "gnosticism" because it has an -ism at the end of it. -isms, especially -isms that have to do with religion, are universally stupid and pointless.

 

[Xpwn3ntial]

No, seriously, who's DM?

 

[TerraMGP]

No, seriously, who's DM?

DM, dungeon master.

I basically equated life to a big game of D&D, or in this case D20 modern.

 

[Untamed Waters]

I'm actually atheist but I'd like to chime in. My understanding is gnosticism was declared a heresy quite a while ago. (At least by the Catholic church. I can't remember if that was before or after the Schism) Anyway, my personal view on it is that it is an extreme devaluing of nature and humanity. This declaration that "everything of the flesh" is evil puts off most Christians due to some of the self-inflicted torture and hate of family that arise from it.

You need to not do that.

You can't call Catholics "Christians" when referring to the entire Christian faith. Before I get heat, they ARE Christians, but there are really two sects in the Christian faith. Catholics and Protestants. Most of the time, and yes MOST of the time Catholics and protestants won't agree on many subjects.

 

[EXPLICITasian]

Well I'm christian... but I take many other beliefs from other religions (like my idea of hell from the muslim faith, ect.)

Is that... christian agnosticism? is there like a certain point that if you don't beleive a certain amount of christian beliefs that means you're a agnostic? or is like "YOU DON'T BELIEVE THIS ONE THING, HERESY"?

 

[Aardvark]

I'm not exactly "christian" and I haven't read the Wikis that have been posted, but I disagree with this "gnosticism" because it has an -ism at the end of it. -isms, especially -isms that have to do with religion, are universally stupid and pointless.

Especially Atheism and Agnosticism