Female attractiveness in gaming, how far is acceptable?

[Erttheking]

I was looking through the thread about the Bioshock cosplayer and something really stuck out for me when a guy complimented how the woman looked while simultaneously saying that he hoped that no one found that misogynistic. And that, along with a reply to said post, really got me thinking. It kind of seems like we're all too ready to jump on video games for being sexist nowadays, and while there defiantly are games out there that are sexist "cough" Metroid Other M "cough" I can't help but wonder if we're starting to be a little too trigger happy when it comes to this. I'm personally divided on the issue to be perfectly honest, and I really think that it deserves to be talked about.

Like I said, the guy on the thread was nervous about saying that the woman was attractive, and I can't help feel that some people (SOME, NOT ALL!) tend to be rather trigger happy when it comes to how women look in video games and other popular media, pretty much calling a game sexist for showing any amount of cleavage. As the replier in said thread said, gamers can't even seem to admit that they find female character models attractive without getting the sexist hammer dropped on them.

So here is the question I want to ask. What is "acceptable" for a female character in gaming? I know I'm probably going to get a good chunk of replies that point me towards Alyx Vance, but let's try to think outside of the box a little when it comes to this stuff. What is just drawing a female character that happens to be attractive and what is sexist and going to far? Is Samus' Zero Suit acceptable? Is Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinate acceptable? Is Lara Croft acceptable? (The Pre-reboot version, if you want to talk about her reboot version and if that game is sexist or not, please start your own thread and don't derail mine, this is more about looks). Really where do we draw the line? Please share your thoughts.

 

[shrimpcel]

Alyx Vance

In all seriousness though, it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If something seems sexist in a game, the rest of the game is usually over-the-top anyway so I don't mind.

 

[Erttheking]

Alyx Vance

In all seriousness though, it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If something seems sexist in a game, the rest of the game is usually over-the-top anyway so I don't mind.

Yeah, called it.

Still, that's a pretty interesting view point. Thank you for sharing. Are you talking about games like Bayoneta?

 

[King Billi]

As long as a characters apperance or get up isn't their only distinguishing feature then I don't see any problem.

 

[Auron]

In Final Fantasy, male character appearance is tailored to appeal to Japanese fan girls. We mostly get Ruggedly good looking leads for western games but still they're also made to be attractive, if only way more rustic. I don't see a problem at all with the same for women.

People are just overly sensitive nowadays, and why the hell should the guy be ashamed about commenting on the girl's appearance? I saw her cosplay she was beautiful, if we came to a point where actually admiring human beauty(respectfully nonetheless) is wrong then I fear a lot for the near future.

 

[shrimpcel]

Alyx Vance

In all seriousness though, it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If something seems sexist in a game, the rest of the game is usually over-the-top anyway so I don't mind.

Yeah, called it.

Still, that's a pretty interesting view point. Thank you for sharing. Are you talking about games like Bayoneta?

Yes, that's about what I had in mind. Games like Mortal Kombat too, for example, where the violence is cranked up to 11, also has the "attractiveness" of the female characters at an appropriately goofy level. Fantasy games like World of Warcraft and whatnot are all about out-of-this-world creatures and locales, so it is again expected that women will often have "otherwordly" beauty in these games. (The Elder Scrolls is somewhat of an exception... that is always quickly fixed by the modding community).

 

[burningdragoon]

The problem isn't with how attractive a character is. The problem is with a saturation of eye candy, with a less than desirable amount of anything else.

 

[Kopikatsu]

They can't be more attractive than Rachel.

Spoiler

Conversely, men cannot be more masculine than Dante. No, not that one. Yeah, that's the one. Right there.

Spoiler

 

[chozo_hybrid]

The problem isn't with how attractive a character is. The problem is with a saturation of eye candy, with a less than desirable amount of anything else.

Thanks for introducing the hammer to the nail.

It's a question of them having character, which is not limited to looks, despite what some people seem to think.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

A principle that has served me well is: "Does the character's design interfere with the believability of what she does?"

So for example, a character in Buffy the vampire Slayer would be expected to perform differently from a character in Gritty Warfare 4. A chainmail bikini is acceptable in some genres (for example, Valis 3) but not in others (realistic historical wargames).

Besides, attractiveness isn't a simple metric. I know some women who are very attractive who could kick my ass. But what you want to avoid is women who are depicted to enhance their sexual attractiveness at the expense of depicting their competence. [http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/legacy-of-the-greeks/amazon-warriors]

Different settings demand different degrees of suspension of disbelief. What will be acceptable depends on the setting.

As usual Katatori-Kun pretty much nails it. As a general rule of thumb: If the male part is wearing something (a paladin in full plate from head to toe) then it is stupid, not necessarily sexist, if the female counterpart isn't wearing something similar (a paladin with the same armour set in a metal bikini). Think of something like Conan, our favorite barbarian who prefers to wear nothing but a fur loin cloth. That Red Sonja only wears a chainmail bikini doesn't seem that silly when put in the context of Conan (her propensity for getting caught and needing to be saved by Conan on the other hand...).

 

[Kopikatsu]

A principle that has served me well is: "Does the character's design interfere with the believability of what she does?"

So for example, a character in Buffy the vampire Slayer would be expected to perform differently from a character in Gritty Warfare 4. A chainmail bikini is acceptable in some genres (for example, Valis 3) but not in others (realistic historical wargames).

Besides, attractiveness isn't a simple metric. I know some women who are very attractive who could kick my ass. But what you want to avoid is women who are depicted to enhance their sexual attractiveness at the expense of depicting their competence. [http://wargamesfactory.com/webstore/legacy-of-the-greeks/amazon-warriors]

Different settings demand different degrees of suspension of disbelief. What will be acceptable depends on the setting.

As usual Katatori-Kun pretty much nails it. As a general rule of thumb: If the male part is wearing something (a paladin in full plate from head to toe) then it is stupid, not necessarily sexist, if the female counterpart isn't wearing something similar (a paladin with the same armour set in a metal bikini). Think of something like Conan, our favorite barbarian who prefers to wear nothing but a fur loin cloth. That Red Sonja only wears a chainmail bikini doesn't seem that silly when put in the context of Conan (her propensity for getting caught and needing to be saved by Conan on the other hand...).

You reminded me of this:


It's an ongoing series.

 

[Ryotknife]

As long as a characters apperance or get up isn't their only distinguishing feature then I don't see any problem.

This.

If it is a terrible character whose any reason to exist is to serve as eye-candy, that irritates me because it is a lost opportunity. The exception to this rule is if the game has practically no focus on characters or story (ie fighting games). In that case go nuts, but try to at least give options to satisfy everyone of all persuausions (for example, a sexy outfit and a practical outfit)

 

[General Twinkletoes]

snip

Um, didn't you make a big grand post about how you were done with this site and leaving it for good?
Anyway, OT:
As long as it's not their sole defining feature, or as Katatori said ridiculously sexual even when it doesn't make sense. Just having a sexy character doesn't make it sexist, and it's impossible to put down a flat line of what's acceptable or what's not, it depends on the context.

 

[Zhukov]

Is this just the old chainmail bikini topic in a new hat? Because it looks like it.

...

Anyway, that's kind of a weird choice of words. "Attractiveness" means something quite different to the usual terms that come up like "sexualization", "exploitation", "objectification" and whatever other "ation" words I'm forgetting.

As for your actual question... actually, fuck it, I'm just going to be lazy and quote my own damn self:

Context is everything.

If the game wants me to take it seriously then the ol' chainmail bikinis and whatnot are idiotic. They make as much sense as going into battle wearing clown shoes and a tube dress. For example, Samara in Mass Effect 2. She's supposed to be a vigilante warrior-monk who enters combat on a semi-regular basis. She is presented in a straight faced manner. Yet she wears high heels and a what looks like a swimsuit with pauldrens. As much as I like the character, that visual design is a bad joke. It's not exploitive or offensive, it's silly.

On the other hand, if the game is intentionally over-the-top or tongue in cheek, then I'm fine. For example, I have no problem with any of the character designs in the various Japanese fighting games. Their whole premise is already ridiculous and both the players and developers are fully aware of that. We're talking about games where a roster of invincible caricatures with super powers conduct combative fireworks displays around the world. Sticking the women in sexy outfits does not make that scenario any more ridiculous.

When all is said and done, I've never really seen the point of it. I don't play games to ogle the pixels. Its just not what I'm there for.

Although I would like to see a few more Avalines (DA2) and Rachels (Binary Domain). Y'know, just for the sake of some bloody variety.

 

[veloper]

Anything goes aslong as the GAMEPLAY is good.

For realism the designer may have to moderate the artists a bit, but unrealistic games are just fine aswell and much more common besides.

 

[DioWallachia]

SNIP

Sexism is the new Hitler argument. The kind of crap that one mentions to win an argument (For disclosure, Metroid Other M is THE true sexism game ever made, if not the ONLY one that goes out of its way with the attention to detail to remove more agency of the females over the plot)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/lb_i.php?lb_id=13373815860B43920100&i_id=13373815860I43921400&p=1

And lets face it, games have faaaaaaaaar more troubles to even think about sexism. If the feminist (the good ones) convince the executive producers of making female protagonist, guess what? they are going to be badly written. Not because writing a woman is hard mind you, but because writting is NOT a priority when flashy scenery makes the money flow better. "Why fix what isnt broken?" mentality.

And, if we start to make more women that are aceptable in terms of sexual appeal, guess what again? that will probably be sexist too. Since the "big boobed with firm ass woman" doesnt appear anymore for the sake of political correctess, it will send the message of "Anyone can be a hero..........except the eye candy girls. Get a reduction of GTFO, there is no armor for your assets lady"

 

[DioWallachia]

Alyx Vance

In all seriousness though, it really doesn't matter as far as I'm concerned. If something seems sexist in a game, the rest of the game is usually over-the-top anyway so I don't mind.

I doubt it, since she is too busy being a fangirl of Gordon than having real issues like a human being.

 

[Legion]

As other have said: Context.

The Latex Nuns in the Hitman trailer were stupid because they did not fit in with the otherwise serious nature of the scene. Their clothing did not seem to serve any other purpose than to get people watching it because it had Nuns in latex. If Agent 47 was lured into a strip club and all of the strippers were actually undercover assassins then it'd still be stupid, but it'd at least have some kind of purpose to it other than eye candy.

Although what really pisses me off about this whole sexism thing is that televisions shows seem to be exempt. Nobody seems to care about all of the pointless sex and nudity in a Game of Thrones and True Blood. Or the open and even glorified sexism in Sex and the City.