"Fighting game are Mashers" mentality

[Deleted]

What's up with it? Why do people who don't play fighting games dismiss it as a stupid genre where the controls are convulted and too hard to learn?

If you enjoy playing it casually, that's fine, but when someone is better than you, why do you blame the game? Every time I see fighting games mentioned here by someone who doesn't play them, I notice the typical misconceptions
"they all play the same, just mash attacks"
"you need to dedicate an absurdly long time to learn to play"
"smash bros is the best fighter because it is easy to play"
"all the good players are conceited nerds"
"being good at the game makes you less of a person than I am- I have a life!"
That last one is a big thing in gaming in general. Why the hate on good players, why is it unnatural to be good at a game/play it at a high level of play? Ah but that's a complaint for another time.

With SSF4 AE coming out for PC soon, I imagine a lot of escapists will be trying it out. And I hope people don't play for a bit, realize they're bad, deflect the blame onto the game, and rage quit.

 

[TimeLord]

It's the same way that an FPS can be played really accurately with 1 headshot per enemy, or by going peanut-banana crazy spraying bullets everywhere.

 

[Cogwheel]

"you need to dedicate much of your life to learn to play"

Maybe it's just me, but I do find this to be true of some games. Sorry. Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur, for instance, are fiendishly complicated (too much for me, at least). Brawl, the Gundam games and a couple others are really easy to play, Hisoutensoku is at my approximate comfort level, and BlazBlue is as fiddly as any fighting game can get while still being fun for me to play and entirely accessible. The easy input system in CT, by the way, is something more games need to do.

The rest is, yes, definitely untrue. I do try to help people through new fighting games to make it easier, though, and I've had a fair bit of success with that. That said, the, uh... community for many fighting games is, unfortunately, rather awful in my experience. I know it's hardly universal, but somewhat tiresome all the same.

The mentality exists for a reason. The way I see it, it's a mix of problems beginners run into, plus actual issues, which proceed to get blown waaaay out of proportion. Still, it wouldn't hurt if the genre as a whole was a bit more beginner-friendly (which is definitely not the same thing as removing skill from the equation). As things stand, it's somewhat hard to get into, in many cases. I know it took me years, though that's also due to an odd case of liking the genre and disliking most of the games in it.


Anyway, I'm both sleepy and rambling, so I'd best stop now.


Edit: I'm not good enough at these games to actually pull off any proper combos, besides some spur-of-the-moment ones, and one I've mastered in BlazBlue. This probably invalidates everything I've said, so it might be worth mentioning, I don't know.

 

[varulfic]

Well, I can see where they are coming from. Unless you take your time to actually learn a fighting game, it is just a masher. And fighting games really do take a long time to master, that's not a misconception.

 

[thiosk]

I personally feel the genre has not advanced significantly since Mortal Kombat. Oh sure, I played me some soul caliber 2 back in college as well, but it was neither as satisfying (or as fun) as the lines and crowds that formed around arcade games.

What always pissed me off about them was that it is memorized sequences. Each match is a minute long-- or less-- when you start out. So you either know the sequences going in for the coolest moves, or you mash frantically trying to do something. how the hell does punch punch block dodge down left whatever equal a fireball? Theres no rhyme or reason to it.

I've trained people to roll their wrist against the keypad for soul caliber games, and man, that newbie (in one case my fiancee) just absolutely crushed all opposition. Takes a more seasoned player some time to catch up-- they always do, but not before making the newbie feel really good about their experience.

 

[Deleted]

Well, I can see where they are coming from. Unless you take your time to actually learn a fighting game, it is just a masher. And fighting games really do take a long time to master, that's not a misconception.

Alright but to get to the intermediate stage which maybe 70-80% of players are, you just need to play casually and you will pick it up. The key point is if the game is fun, no need to force yourself to get good at a game you don't enjoy.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Actually owning a copy of a fighting game and playing it is what makes playing with friends fun. I'm pretty damn good at smash brothers but I know it is a watered down fighter. Last week I played MvC3 for the first time at my friends place and got my ass kicked time after time. I don't blame the game, I blame myself for not owning an Xbox so I can train to win...

 

[thiosk]

ACTUALLY there was one fighter for the PS1; if I recall correctly it was a samurai fighting game. 1 hit kills.

a gorgeous, wonderful fighting game. Truly amazing. Forgot what it was called. Would play again.

 

[Matrixbeast]

It doesn't take much to play a fighter past masher level. If people dedicated a quarter of their time they spend playing RPGs or FPSes, they can become competent to decent at a fighter.

Tourney level is different and does take lots of time, but that's the same for every game...

 

[varulfic]

Well, I can see where they are coming from. Unless you take your time to actually learn a fighting game, it is just a masher. And fighting games really do take a long time to master, that's not a misconception.

Alright but to get to the intermediate stage which maybe 70-80% of players are, you just need to play casually and you will pick it up. The key point is if the game is fun, no need to force yourself to get good at a game you don't enjoy.

I dedicated myself to learning Street Fighter 4, spending much time in training mode, reading up on strategies and combos online. It took me months before I got decent at it. My friends, who just played casually, never got any better, and quit after I started consistently wipe the floor with them.

I don't think casual works in fighting games. If you want to get good, you have to train... and not a lot of people have patience for that.

ACTUALLY there was one fighter for the PS1; if I recall correctly it was a samurai fighting game. 1 hit kills.

a gorgeous, wonderful fighting game. Truly amazing. Forgot what it was called. Would play again.

Bushido Blade?

 

[Toriver]

Well, fighting games do have a very steep learning curve, usually, especially when jumping from competing against AI opponents to human opponents. When you're talking about counting individual frames and inputting sometimes quite long and precise button combinations often in a time of 2 seconds or less, which must be timed exactly to work, it can become quite daunting to anyone who isn't used to playing those types of games. On top of that, past just remembering those precise button combinations to learn the moves, you have to include the strategy of where, when and against who to use those moves, which again will often take split hundredth-of-a-second decisions. This takes a level of dexterity, attention to detail and ultimately quick thinking that turns off many fans of other genres who may be interested in trying fighting games. Throw in the vocabulary of the fighting game community when doing research, which is pretty much a language in itself, and it can seem impossible to learn. Then, having many good fighting game players simply tell those who do try to basically "lern2play" can really get on the nerves of some, including myself in the past. Fighting games are indeed like FPS in that they take a long time to really learn to be even somewhat competent in online play, and also can be very competitive, which makes that learning time potentially greatly frustrating to beginners. Many players would rather simply be able to just pick up the game and be able to do what the advertising says you can do without having to take weeks or even months to practice before you are able to do it with some sort of consistency. That can be a big draw of mascot fighters such as Smash Bros. compared to other games like Street Fighter: I can press 2 buttons to make Link do his sword spin rather than having to press a precise 6-button combination, and it works every time. I can rely on that attack. That can't be said for other fighters, especially to beginners. I hope that explanation helps a bit.

 

[The Geek Lord]

I really don't know where this kinda crap about fighting games came from, and I suck at them. A lot. Seriously, I have to use the "Stylish" control layout in BlazBlue 2, I suck that much at 2D fighters.

Now that I think about it, the only fighting games I DON'T suck at are Brawl and Dissidia--which are heavy button mashers. Brawl being atrociously unbalanced, the one thing nostalgia CAN'T cover up[footnote]And don't even get me started on the fact that the AI in that game is a cheating *****. No, it DOESN'T kick my ass, it's still retarded, but it's a fucking cheating piece of shit. I can't count the amount of times I was in the middle of dodging and got sent flying even during invincibility time.[/footnote]!

But, I'm sorry, I do have to say that traditional 2D fighting games aren't exactly the most newcomer friendly games out there. Memorizing a list of inputs for special moves of each individual character, learning to chain together up-up-down-down-left-right-left-right-b-a in the very short time span you get in between landing a standard hit on your enemy and them recovering.

This doesn't mean that I think anyone who blames the game for the fact that they suck should get away with it though. Quite honestly I played Brawl against a guy who beat Contra WITHOUT the Konami code while he was playing as Pit, one of the more broken characters, I was playing as Ness, and I STILL won. In fact I won most of the matches against that guy. And you know what he never did? He never once complained about the game being broken... Even though it kind of is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you don't get how to play fighting games to the point that you suck--like me--just deal with it. Either learn to play or stop playing, and don't blame the game for the fact that you don't know how to play... Like I don't.

 

[Matrixbeast]

...I've won my fair share of matches playing at friends houses by just randomly mashing buttons, so yeah, they're mashers. Admittedly the last time I played a fighter the PS1 was still relevant, but if Yahtzee's recent Smash Bros Brawl reviews are anything to go by, jack shit has changed over the years.

Wouldn't that be more of a testament to your friend's skill rather than the game itself? I could say I beat Sephiroth in KH2 by having a seizure, but I wouldn't call the game completely random.
And Yahtzee's reviews are never something that should be taken into consideration =P

 

[Kahunaburger]

"smash bros is the best fighter because it is easy to play"

I actually kinda agree with this one. Smash Bros can definitely be mastered to a scary degree just like any other fighter, but the "pick up and play" aspect makes it a great game for playing casually against your friends, which is a major part of fighters. It's good that new player has a fighting chance against an experienced/non-pro player - keeps things fun and interesting.

 

[Deleted]

...I've won my fair share of matches playing at friends houses by just randomly mashing buttons, so yeah, they're mashers. Admittedly the last time I played a fighter the PS1 was still relevant, but if Yahtzee's recent Smash Bros Brawl reviews are anything to go by, jack shit has changed over the years.

Well maybe your friend was at the same skill level as you, so in that case mashing is a tactic used by both of you. And if you're unfamiliar with a genre as it is now, Yahtzee's the last guy to ask about how it is! just saiyan but a fighting game is just a masher if you make it one, but that isn't a fault of the game.

 

[Fwee]

It doesn't take much to play a fighter past masher level. If people dedicated a quarter of their time they spend playing RPGs or FPSes, they can become competent to decent at a fighter.

Tourney level is different and does take lots of time, but that's the same for every game...

I started to get mad when I began to read this, but got to the "Tourney level" bit and thought, "Oh, ok."

I think some people confuse "mashing" with "timing", which is the true essence of most fighters.
So when someones thumbs dance over the controller to make a ridiculously flawless combo, people just fall back on "You're mashing!"
Virtua Fighter will always be one of my favorite series. DO NOT challenge my Akira, Goh, or Lion!!!

One thing that always frustrates me is the weird "amateur invincibility", when someone who's never even picked up a controller before can mop the floor with you. WHAT IS THAT?

Oh and I completely suck at Smash Bros, so I never play it.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

Warning! I've posted another text-wall.

What's up with it? Why do people who don't play fighting games dismiss it as a stupid genre where the controls are convulted and too hard to learn?

If you enjoy playing it casually, that's fine, but when someone is better than you, why do you blame the game? Every time I see fighting games mentioned here by someone who doesn't play them, I notice the typical misconceptions
"they all play the same, just mash attacks"
"you need to dedicate an absurdly long time to learn to play"
"smash bros is the best fighter because it is easy to play"
"all the good players are conceited nerds"
"being good at the game makes you less of a person than I am- I have a life!"

I used to play Fighting games and still do from time to time. They really don't all play the same. Hell, playing Marvel vs Capcom 3 is a far different experience than MvC2 from what I remember of the later. Tekken, Street Fighter and, Soul Caliber all handle differently from each other as well (and all feel different from the 2 MvC's I've played). As for the typical misconceptions:

1) I just outlined that actually. Tekken is more masher friendly from what I remember. Street Fighter is either for 'haduken throwers' or the combo masters who dominate them (I'm in the former group) Marvel vs Capcom is similar to Street Fighter but Soul Caliber is a bit more similar to Tekken where it's more mash-friendly than Tekken but you can easily throw people from the ring for an insta-win. Mortal Kombat is combo oriented in a huge way which is why I've never been good at it. Primal Rage is the one everyone wants back and, Killer Instinct is the one everyone REALLY wants back.

2) While you don't need to spend as much time learning to play Final Fantasy as you need learning every character's combo in Mortal Kombat, you need to spend a whole hell of a lot of time in Final Fantasy leveling your characters up into unkillable tank-gods. FPS games are the kind of games you just jump into and play but most people will pick an FPS and dump hours upon hours into those time sinks online. Time which could have been better spent learning absolutely everything there is to know about Soul Bad Guy or, Kysuke [sub](I only just remembered Guilty Gear...which is very combo centric but I mashed the hell out of that one and cared more about the music anyway.)[/sub]

3) Super Smash Brothers are easy to play and I love the concept of pitting famous Nintendo Characters (and eventually Snake and Sonic) against each other in mortal combat. What I don't like about it is how small all the action is. It looks big because of the bloom lighting but that just makes my eyes bleed a bit more heavily. Don't get me wrong though, I loved Melee and played the hell out of it for about 3 weeks on my 32 inch TV. I can't say the same for Brawl though because it felt like more the same. I never owned the original but I rented it as a kid so of course Melee would have seemed like a vast improvement over the N64 original.

4) Once again, the same can kinda be said about players of other genres...except perhaps people who are really good at games by EA Sports. Smugginess, nerdiness and, conceit kinda runs rampant across all types of games. Shooters have the worst of it I think where conceit is concerned whereas I think geekiness is more rampant in RPGs (not just MMOs, RPGs in general). Anyway if conceited nerds beating your ass as Sub-Zero bugs you that much stop playing online. That piece of advice though could very well go unheeded.

5) This one actually threw me...do you mean to say you have a life outside of gaming or are you insinuating fighting-game players have no life when compared to say, casual or, role-playing gamers? If you mean to say you have a life outside of gaming then that's great! Gaming isn't an integral part of your life and you can move on. If you mean you have a life in a different type of game then also good for you! You gave competitive fighting games a try and found it not to your liking. I hope you enjoyed your time anyway and hope you take a break from Harvest Moon or, Halo long enough to try again. Maybe next time we won't use the Dante/ Wesker glitch on you.

It's kinda stupid that they blame the game itself though, when it's the player who isn't all that good with it.