FIghting Games with Good Stories

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TheHatPerson

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Hello! I have had this question in my mind and hoped that maybe a good discussion can come out of it. I am currently making a video where at one point I'm talking about story in fighting games, where I say that it's pretty much a general consensus that most fighting games don't have a good story, but there are some that are really good, or at the very least, interesting.

In my video, I plan on mentioning the Blazblue series, Injustice, MK 9 and Persona 4 Arena, but I want to pose the question to everyone by asking what other fighting games do you know of that have a good story. It doesn't have to be anything mind blowing as long as it was something that you found interesting, entertaining or enhanced your experience while playing.

Another question that might be good to talk about is how would it be possible to create better stories that are worth looking at, rather than having it tacked on for the single player focused people, such as myself. Is it possible to have it integrated with the gameplay somehow (similar to how Dragonball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi did it) or just have it as a completely different feature?

I would love to hear people's opinion on this and hope to have a great discussion on the topic :D
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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Oof, you took my suggestions right off the bat by saying both BlazBlue and Injustice: Gods Among Us.

Unfortunately I'm not much of a fighting game player, so I don't have impressions of many other games. Skullgirls certainly has interesting lore, but I've not played any of the actual story mode of the game yet, and thus am not really qualified to comment on it.

I mean, I could always just give my impressions of BlazBlue and Injustice, but I don't know how much good that will do if you're already intending on using them.
 

TheHatPerson

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shrekfan246 said:
Oof, you took my suggestions right off the bat by saying both BlazBlue and Injustice: Gods Among Us.

I mean, I could always just give my impressions of BlazBlue and Injustice, but I don't know how much good that will do if you're already intending on using them.
Nah, don't worry about that. All information is useful to me. Go ahead and say whatever you want :)
 

Queen Michael

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They all have good stories. All the stories are about a heckuva lot of fighting. Ergo: They're good.
 

Tanis

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Uh...well.
Nope, you mentioned that one.
And, um...well.
Nope, you mentioned that one.
And, um...well.
Nope, you mentioned that one.
And, um...well.
Nope, you mentioned that one.
And, um...well.

Damn!

I guess...maybe...the Gundam: Battle Masters series?
It's like SF, but witch mecha, and the stories were weird as hell...but also kind of, fun.

I also enjoyed the stupidity of Arcana Hearts.
 

LaoJim

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To me the important point is not so much about creating stories, but creating character.

Take Street Fighter 2 for example. The set up should be fairly simple. The characters are fighters, there's a fighting tournament, one of them will win. In the original SF2 every character was unique in their design (well except Ken and Ryu), had their own stage and music which let you know pretty much straight away who they were. The plot really doesn't need to have Shadaloo trying to take over the world. I main Chun-li and I remember when I finally finished her story (which took a while as I could only play the arcade cabinet as a kid either when we visited the cinema or went on holiday to the coast) being surprised that she was supposed to be an undercover cop. There really isn't really any need for this. Given that a lot of players hate cheap bosses, there is no a lot of point in adding a convoluted story about how Shadaloo is trying to create some kind of cloned ultimate fighting machine (a la Street Fighter 4). In some senses the best thing is to do what Virtua-Fighter 5 did and have absolutely no story at all, but have a long lasting campaign mode.

If you are going to have a story you need to commit to it full, as MK9 did. MK9's story, as a narrative, is only good compared to every other fighting game out there. It's unoriginal and cheesy (but a lot of fun). It gets its job done well since by the end of it you basically know who everyone is and why they are fighting. More importantly Netherrealms put a lot of effort in to make sure each cut scene looked good and the story flowed from battle to battle. (Incidently have you looked at Dead or Alive 5, I wouldn't say it was a good story, again its all 'evil corporation doing stuff at a fighting tournament', but it does attempt a similar level of presentation to MK9)

Finally I have to ask why everyone seems to think BlazBlue was a good story. I have only played Continuum Shift, but, two years later, I am struggling to remember anything about it. I do remember it was confusing as hell, was mainly told through the technique of having two characters meet, yammer back and forth for half an hour before fighting and had a lot of inappropriate and cringeworthy 'boob' based humour. The characters and setting were interestingly designed, but I'm not sure what the appeal of the story was. Perhaps the first one was better?
 

shrekfan246

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TheHatPerson said:
shrekfan246 said:
Oof, you took my suggestions right off the bat by saying both BlazBlue and Injustice: Gods Among Us.

I mean, I could always just give my impressions of BlazBlue and Injustice, but I don't know how much good that will do if you're already intending on using them.
Nah, don't worry about that. All information is useful to me. Go ahead and say whatever you want :)
All right, but you're letting the floodgates open! D:

Personally, what I love about BlazBlue is how readily it straddles the line between "serious" and "parody". It's a similar praise I have for the Metal Gear Solid franchise, in that the writing keeps me hooked not because of how good it is (to be honest, a lot of the writing in both BlazBlue and Metal Gear Solid is hilariously "bad", or at least poorly edited) but because of how, as you put it in your OP, interesting it is. BlazBlue is like a simultaneous love letter to and satire of anime, but it manages to pull off both positions really well, simply because of its self-awareness.

I'm a strong proponent of self-awareness being a huge factor in whether something is "bad" or qualifies as "so bad it's good"; this is a tangent, but to me the writing of a game like Final Fantasy XIII becomes tedious because it exhibits no self-awareness for how ridiculous its story or characters are. Everything is presented in a straight-faced, matter-of-fact manner, and while that's not a bad thing in itself, it doesn't help the game's position when everything it's presenting to the player is nebulous at best. BlazBlue manages to side-step that entire issue simply by knowing it's a silly game. Clearly, that won't make it tolerable for everyone. It's still a niche product, and has relatively limited appeal. But by playing to its strengths, it manages to make the most of the absurd and occasionally nonsensical things it presents to the player, and it allows for things like the branching narratives resulting in the "true ending", "bad ending", or "silly ending"--none of which feel out of place within the context of the game itself.

As far as how it impacts or is impacted by being a fighting game as well, I think it honestly helps the narrative that they're trying to tell. In many games, pacing is a legitimate issue not solely because of the writing, but also because of the encounters and how the developers try to account for the player's potential skill. Because many games present the protagonist as being a one-man army who is capable, and indeed required to mow down hundreds of enemies thrown in their path. Fighting games are one of the few genres that have the unique ability to side-step that without any strange contrivances or compromises, by the nature of them being 1v1 encounters (or upwards of 3v3, depending). BlazBlue, for all of the war/rebellion/conflict contained within the narrative, is more about the characters than any big event setpieces, and being presented as a visual novel and fighting game allows it the freedom to explore every nuance of those characters.

Now, admittedly, it's all still highly ridiculous. BlazBlue intermingles small comedic sketches almost directly beside "serious" drama, often with little or no interlude. And as much as it seems to be taking satirical swipes at anime, it's no stranger to classic anime tropes such as fanservice of characters either. It could easily be accused of having tonal inconsistencies, and those accusations would hold a lot of weight. Subjectivity makes the final call then; for me, it creates something I want to see out to its conclusion because it's a unique change of pace both for me and for, I assume, fighting games. But by apparently putting its central focus on the narrative, or at least a heavy focus, it gives me something to feel invested in. I mean, it's the same reason I read any visual novel, or play any RPG. They put the effort into crafting a narrative, and while they way they did it appeals to a very specific group of people, I always feel more interested when it feels like the developers themselves were interested.

Sorry for any rambly bits, it's 1:30 AM as I'm typing this and I ramble even when I'm not tired.

As for Injustice, it's definitely a different context but another where I would say the writing and story isn't so much good as it is interesting. I like the premise of it to begin with, to be honest, because it shakes up an established bit of canon in a pretty dramatic way. I won't dwell so much on the actual writing of this one, though, because it's... well, I'm just not sure how interesting it would be to people who weren't already interested in the DC Comics characters to begin with. I assume the same position I take with most video games, in that the writing itself isn't particularly good or bad, but merely passable. It conveys the story they want to tell in an enjoyable manner. Which probably sounds fairly more boring than I mean it to, so I'll sum it up as "it did an entertainment".

What I like about Injustice is almost entirely granted to its presentation. I'm not one to gush over how "cinematic" a game is, but I was genuinely impressed by the way the cutscenes were used to smoothly transition from one fight to the next, even between stages. It's not something that I think I've ever seen in a fighting game, though I can't say it hasn't been done before, and I feel like that's a decent way for a more "traditional" fighting game than BlazBlue to tackle having a focus on an actual single-player narrative. If I could remember them more concretely, I would make comparisons to the Dragon Ball Z: Budokai franchise and how it presented its single-player narratives here. I remember they switched things up pretty extensively from game to game, but I don't remember exactly which game did what and all of them were a bit slowed down by mucking around in between fights.

Being so cutscene-reliant does subject Injustice to the same issues that most other modern games tend to have, especially with regards to shot direction and character modeling, scene setup and all of that other good stuff, but it gives it the same strengths those games have as well. It allows for a more seamless story experience, and it allowed the stage/world designers to really flex their creativity as they came up with entire transition scenes and areas, things which remove the stark segmented and disjointed feeling that I always found present in older fighting games.

Obviously, those are by no means the only ways for fighting games stories to be tackled. There are many methods of story-telling alive and well within the games industry these days; at this time of night I can't even fathom how to transplant them onto the fighting game formula, though I can come up with plot/narrative ideas. But I think a simple determination for how fighting game stories can be better just depends on the writers involved. I think a story can only be as good as the writer is invested in telling it. With fighting games, especially before the last few years, I just don't think many developers thought people cared about having stories in their fighting games. When those impressions can be cast aside, we can see a further influx of fighting games which have narratives crafted for people who enjoy the single-player experience.

There's a lot of waffle in that, I'm sure, my filter fails a little bit late at night.
 

TheHatPerson

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LaoJim said:
Finally I have to ask why everyone seems to think BlazBlue was a good story. I have only played Continuum Shift, but, two years later, I am struggling to remember anything about it. I do remember it was confusing as hell, was mainly told through the technique of having two characters meet, yammer back and forth for half an hour before fighting and had a lot of inappropriate and cringeworthy 'boob' based humour. The characters and setting were interestingly designed, but I'm not sure what the appeal of the story was. Perhaps the first one was better?
TL:DR VERSION: Yes, if you wanna understand the story, you probably gotta play all of the Blazblue games.

LONG VERSION:

Thank you very much for all of the feedback! I agree that a lot of it is based on the kind of characters you have and how they interact with each other, rather than having some big bad guy trying to take over the world or something. That is definitely a valid alternative.

Also, to respond to your concerns about BlazBlue, you said that you only played the second in the series and couldn't remember much from it, which I think is exactly the problem. The story in all the three BlazBlue games is basically one big giant story that have a lot of big connections with each other. They are incredibly packed with lore, terminology and small occurrences that end up coming back later, which can bring up a lot of confusion. The only way for you you truly "get it" or at the very least appreciated what it was trying to do would be to play everything from the very beginning and be aware of all the tiny things that make up the atmosphere of those games, which can be very tiring for a lot of people who just want to fight. In my personal experience, I spent many hours just researching, getting headaches because I had trouble wrapping my head around absolutely everything, so I understand the concern. But when I did, I was actually pretty blown away at how huge of a world BlazBlue truly is. Heck, there's even a visual novel game called XBlaze (with a sequel coming up soon) that is nothing but story set inside that universe.

You do need to keep in mind that Story Mode gives you exactly what they say they're going to give you: story, with fighting as an afterthought. However, you have a ton of different modes that you can play that is focused solely on the fighting, so if you're not interested in that, you have a whole bunch of other stuff to check out.

In addition to that, the "boob based humor" that you mentioned is only a super small portion of the story. That kind of stuff is usually saved for side stories with comedic relief characters or for the "gag reels" of each character's particular story line. And even then, there really isn't a lot of that humor found there. If anything, most of the big laughs that I got came from the banter between the characters and all of the ridiculous and deliberately stupid scenarios that were created in those aforementioned gag reels, which are essentially alternate endings that have nothing to do with anything, but technically do make sense within the story. Again, you'd have to go through the whole thing in order to half-way, kinda, sorta get it. (-8
 

Username Redacted

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I would say as far as fighting games with decent stories/story modes the list is pretty short. To me the list is Persona 4: Arena and maybe Skullgirls. With regards to the aforementioned Injustice and Blazblue I do not equate expansive/lengthy story modes to being good. Injustice is poorly written even by comic book standards and Blazblue is just an incomprehensible miasma of clones and stupid.
 

LaoJim

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TheHatPerson said:
TL:DR VERSION: Yes, if you wanna understand the story, you probably gotta play all of the Blazblue games.

LONG VERSION:

snip.
Thanks for the lengthy reply. I think what you say about BB highlights a problem that a lot of fighting games have. With rosters including anything upto 50+ characters you're getting into a Game of Thrones length cast list, but have a limited amount of time to give to each character. Therefore these narratives tend to straddle many games in the series. If you are jumping in with Dead or Alive 5 (for example) there is hardly enough time to give everyone a proper story let alone recap what happened in DoA4. (which didn't really explain clearly what was going on in its own story anyway). Depending on who you want to main, you may end up seeing the comic relief stories first which doesn't help either. The alternative, as in BB, is to have lengthy story segments. Since you can't tell narrative though fighting games gameplay in the same way you can with FPS you have to keep the player waiting around while you explain the story. Unless you are a big name (like MK9) you don't have the budget to do much in terms of cutscenes and so the story telling sections look cheap; if you are Japanese, your story might suffer from different cultural perceptions, dodgy translation or voice acting.

The other issue is that, having bought Continuum Shift, in terms of mechanics there's not a lot of reason for me go back and play the first one, it basically being the same game with fewer characters, unless I really want to explore the story. (which BB:CS didn't really make me want to do) I'm also not the sort of player who likes to buy Manga or other media associated with games. I want the story to be reaonsably accessable without having played every entry in the series. Again I don't know since I don't read them, but it seems like a lot of the cut scenes (again especially in SF4) are more like trailers for what is going on in the manga rather than an attempt to tell stories in their own right.
 

Maximum Bert

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Yeah a lot have already been mentioned I play a lot of fighters but the story modes in most is garbage some actually weakens the characters of the game its so bad imo SF4 is a perfect example of this that has a bad story even for a fighting game.

PS4A has the best story imo
MK9 goes for the cheesy B movie feel and pulls it off
Blazblue Chrono Phantasma has a much better lay out of the story than its predecessors and feels more coherent and less confusing as a result. You can also recap the story of the other two games from it if you only play one (Blazblue) I would strongly recommend this one.

And thats about it if you want games that have stories that are good for fighters but generally suck maybe check out Injustice or Dead or Alive 5 neither of which I would say have very good stories personally.

Then theres the rest then theres SF4 (whose fragmented poorly presented attempts are worse than no attempt at all imo).

Persona 4 Arena 2 is out soon though that will probably have a great story.

Then again if you are interested in a series and dependant of what you consider a fighting game something like Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2 could be considered of having a good story but only if you are a fan of the series because it makes no pretensions that it is for the fans and gives them what they want if you have no idea about the series it will likely seem a little confusing as it brings together a lot of the shows episodes in a short time stealing the best parts for the game.
 

Someone Depressing

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I'm not a big fighting game person, but Skullgirls is the first thing to come to my mind. One of the game's better aspects are probably the characters themselves.

Having only 8 (now 10, +1 meme that quickly became a real character) characters means they all get a lot of screentime and characterisation, and they're all quite interesting and likable in their own ways. Really, the only problem I have with them is that Parasoul isn't the main character.

I quite like the Mortal Kombat games' plots, mostly because they're done so intentionally b-movie esque that they're hard not to like.
 

Shoggoth2588

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Injustice played like a 3-part Justice League episode which, while short and a bit disappointing compared to Mortal Kombat 9's story, was pretty rad. Other than that I've got nothing. Guilty Gear X was pretty cool too, especially as you beat the game as more characters and, found out more about them. In terms of an overarching plot I only really cared about Injustice when it comes to plot.
 

ScrabbitRabbit

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King of Fighters XIII has this huge visual novel-style story mode. My friend insists it's amazing, though I got kinda bored early on. Might be worth a look!
 

scorptatious

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I kinda like the story and characters in Skullgirls. Particularly Peacock's story as...

She is pretty much the driving motivation for Marie, the story mode's final boss.

Really though, every character in the game has some sort of connection to the over-arching plot in the game. Whether it be Parasoul's mother being a former Skullgirl, Ms. Fortune's hatred towards the Medicis for what they did to her, Valentine being formerly affiliated with the Anti-Skullgirl Labs.

It all seems to be leading up to something. And I look forward to whatever Lab Zero games hopefully has in store. Whenever that may be.
 

Maximum Bert

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Surprised by people saying Skullgirls I mean I think the game is great but a good story really? Im not so sure dont get me wrong though its not uber bad or anything and actually Squiglys segment is quite touching in places but if you go in expecting a game with a good story I think you will dissapointed. If you go in expecting a good solid fighter, fun characters, excellent animation and a mildly interesting throw away story on the side that is just there to help establish the universe then you wont go wrong.

I would reccomend Skullgirls for a lot of things but for story even in fighters there are better games out there (and yes worse as well).
 

Chaos Isaac

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Ahahahahahaha. Blazblue? Good story?

Yeah, I think our standards are vastly different.

I'll also say KoF XIII story isn't very good. Neither is Persona 4 Arena (But the characters are solid and likable, with you know... characterization. This game actually did what Persona 4 itself couldn't and have me like the P4 cast.) Also Injustice story is comic book bad and dumb, so if you dislike that feel, don't check out the story. However if you do like Comic books, check it out, you'll probably enjoy it. That said, good thing it's a comic book video game.

But if you have to get one for Story, i'd pick up Persona 4 Arena. The character's are nice, music good, combat good, and while the story is dumb, it has a point and makes sense in it's own universe.
 

MysticSlayer

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Super Smash Bros. Brawl sort of plays out like a Nintendo fan fiction and understandable so, but I thought that its story was decent. At the very least, it is a good example of storytelling without using any words, has an interesting way of getting all the major Nintendo characters together for an interesting adventure, and generally does a good job of showing off their character traits. Yeah, it isn't going to win any awards, but at least it is competent, which is far more than I can say of most fighting game stories.
 

DarklordKyo

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Well, if you don't mind an extremely abridged version of everything from the Saiyan Saga to the Cell Saga, Dragonball Z: Budokai has a pretty good story mode by fighting game standards. On top of that, while it's a little rushed, gotta give Dead or Alive: Dimensions credit for showing an overall narrative for the series.