Final Fantasy 15: Swing and a miss?

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Laughing Man

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Maybe a little late to the party here but I got FF15 as a Christmas present and have been slowly working my way through the game to the point were I am now a few moments away from the Final boss fight. So firstly let's make this clear, chances are this post will have spoilers of some sort or another and second I am by no means a game reviewer or a writer these are just the thoughts of a long time FF fan who left the series and gave this game a chance because it actually looked pretty good.

So here goes.

Final Fantasy 15 came so close to being good, I would even say a great FF game but having gotten to the end of the game I can now say that this game is a serious swing and a miss for the series. Now my history with the games started with FF7 and went through all of them, two sometimes even three playthroughs right up until I gave up half way through FF13. I returned to the series when it looked like FF15 was actually going to be really really good and my god does it come close and until around the 30 - 40 hour mark I was pretty much sold on this new game.

Open world, real time combat, this was a far removal from the turn based random encounters I loved so much in those early FF games, but it's something that Square have been moving towards slowly but surely with the last 3 FF games; FF12, 13 and 15. The thing is I don't hate the combat, it's alright, not poor, just alright. Save the camera being an utter arse the combat is pretty fun and not to bad to look at but fuck me if it isn't shallow and lacking in any real complexity.

All battles can be summed up as warp to enemy, dodge roll, spam hi potion, rinse repeat and this simplicity in combat extends to all aspects of the game. Character development is simple lacking in any complexity or strategy in character setup, remember choosing the Tank, the curer, the black mage, setting up characters to enhance and capitalize on their abilities, yeah nothing even close to that here. Max HP, Max Attack that's you sorted, it's not that the enemies don't have weaknesses or that you can make strategies to help you in comabt it's that the basic combat move of warp strike, dodge, hi potion spam works so effectively and the things like enemies induced status effects are so ineffective, proving nothing more than an announce than a proper fight turning event, that their is no point in working on deep strategy.

Remember this is a game series that had players working through any number of complex materia, weapon and armour setups in FF7 trying to find the most efficient method to allow people to spam Knights of the Round, FF15 has nothing even close to this level of strategy. This is evident when it turns out their are only four magics in the entire game and that magic, like status effects and unique and involved character setup takes a serious backseat, and that seat is marked 'it's in here but you can ignore me if you want.'

So the story, development of and game structure. The story is crap, I got to the final chapter and only by then did I finally have a general idea what the hell was going on and even then I still couldn't work out WHY the main antagonist is doing what he is doing, I get the impression that somewhere along the line Iam suppossed to have gotten in to all this additional material that has been launched to explain the back story to FF15 but here's the thing none of the other FF games had this, they had structured well told stories that told the player what was going on and why via the game so you started the game knowing nothing and ended knowing who the bad guy was, who the good guy was and why the bad guy was the bad guy.

I suspect that part of this issue with the story is the way in which it s told, the main quest only develops when the player does main quest missions the problem lies in that an awful lot of the first 30 or so hours I spent doing side missions to help level my characters and this is another area where the game fails. Previous FF games had side missions but they always felt as part and parcel of the greater story, you encountered them on the path of the main story and usually had them wrapped up by the time you moved on from your current area to the next area. At one point I spent ten hours in FF15 just monster hunting fliting back and forth between locations. IN previous FF games this would have been an objective to complete before moving on to the final boss encounter but in this game most of the side quests just seemed to be distractions from the main quest.

So the main quest itself, looking back retrospectively, crap, lacking in any granduer what so ever. Again previous FF games looking back you end up thinking my god I travelled all over this world, visited all these places, did all this stuff, built a party of utter gods and went and fucked up the bad guy. This game feels like you could blow through the main quest in a few hours if you chose to ignore most if not all the daft side missions, the thing is I suspect you would struggle with not being quite a high enough level in the latter half of the game, which leads me on to the final big issue with the games story and structure.

Up till Chapter 8 you have free reign of this massive world, you then get on the boat to go meet Lunaferya and from that point onwards you are railroaded in to a linear world that takes you straight to the final boss fight, with the last three chapters being tedious, boring and actually containing quick time jump scares. Every other game you had free access to the hub world until you went to a specific location and you knew that when you went to this location you would be on a tough path that would end with you fighting the big bad. When I jumped on that boat at the half way point of the game I had no idea that I would be on a straight line course through some of the dullest easiest most tedious gameplay that would eventually lead me to the big bad. I suspect that part way through development someone put their hand up and said 'uh what if the player isn't a high enough level to progress, what do they do then?' Well they use a stupid time travel mechanic accessed through a fucking Dog that allows them to return to the hub world.

Chapter 9 onwards is where FF15 fell apart for me with Chapter 13 sealing the 'miss' verdict.

So anyone new to FF given this a try, what did you think, better yet for the vets of the series would you agree that this was a FF for fans new and old? As an old fan I would say no it wasn't.
 
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I played like 5 hours of it. I just...can't anymore right now. Not when I have more exciting games to play.

And I don't mean I haven't enjoyed the car mechanics, or having to setup camp and eat, I like these aspects so far.

But so far it seems like every FF game with "real time" combat is a chore to play through until about 8 hours in.

The FFXIII paradigm shift system didn't really come into full play until about a quarter of the way through the game.

And so far Final Fantasy XV is literally just holding down one button while sometimes calling in the special ability of one of your buds.

I'll be honest, I'd rather the game took the Kingdom Hearts approach. At least make me feel like I'm doing something!

And the game kind of hurts my eyes. Even for a console game, it's far too blurry. The fact that I'm using a 1440p monitor isn't aiding in that fact.
 

Glongpre

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How's the music though? I have heard that it is almost non-existent, in that it doesn't play a lot.

The music has always been my favourite part of FF.
 

meiam

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My experience is earily close to yours and my feeling on FF15 is similarly closed (except I dumbed tech game at chapter 13 and Glodiolus throwing a hissy fit). The venice part also had heavily cursing at the game, you end up destroying a city to get a summon that you apparently use once and it's not even that useful. But there were some bright spot, like the large variety of environment and monster and the nice touch like making camp and reviewing picture. Ultimately it's better than 13 but that doesn't mean much.

Another point worth addressing is that the story was butchered for cross material, like the movie and anime, which is such a square enix move, where they decided before the game was even out that people who want more than just a game. Now I'm really worried about FF7 remake, they already decided that it needed to be split into 3 and that they had to change the combat to action (imo FF7 combat is still better than 15 and it has many obvious possible improvement).
 

meiam

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Fischgopf said:
Laughing Man said:
Ok, full disclosure, I haven't played a FF in awhile abd the last I bought was 12 (on release day, playey 2 hours, was bored out of my mind and borrowed it to a friend indefinitely) so my recollections are kind of fuzzy...but

If I recall, Sephiroth kinda wanted to blow up the world because fuck you that's why.

In FF8 I recall it being something like "Something something evil time witch smashing time together something something."

FF9 I recall Kuja kinda coming outta nowhere and having something to do with existential dread or something.

In FF 10 Sins turns out to be a GF that is doing shit against it's will with Yu Yevon being behind it all...I recall it's motivation to be fuck you that's why.

So, I haven't played 15 qnd I couodn't even if I wanted too, but this seems like a unfair criticism at this point.
Sephiroth is partially genovian (I guess?) and they live by draining the energy of planets, his plan was to force all the energy of the planet in one spot so he could absorb it and move on to another planet.

Ultimecia was a witch which was sealed on the moon, she's trying to come back and to do so posses other witches.

Kuja is introduced very early (end of disc 1 I think) and his plan and motivation change quite a bit over the story and are all well explained. Cliff note he was created to sow discord in the human world so that another planet could absorb all the soul of the world, later on he learn that he'll soon die so he decide to destroy the world since he doesn't want to die alone.

Yu Yuvon was a religious fanatic which disliked the way the world lived, so he created sins to forcefully establish a religion that would ban all machine.

All of them are revealed early on and you slowly learn about there motivation. In FF15 you see the bad guy maybe 5 min in total in the first 40 hour and there's not even an hint of his plan.
 

darkcalling

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SO far I'm enjoying it (I'm in chapter 5 so no spoilers) I'll grant that there are definitely problems with pacing due to the open world nature of the game but that's something you see in pretty much every open world game to some extent.

Is it the best in the series? No that's still FFX for me but I feel like this one's probably better than 13 (skipped that trilogy due to lack of funds, watched a Let's Play though).
 

Ryotknife

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Meiam said:
Fischgopf said:
Laughing Man said:
Ok, full disclosure, I haven't played a FF in awhile abd the last I bought was 12 (on release day, playey 2 hours, was bored out of my mind and borrowed it to a friend indefinitely) so my recollections are kind of fuzzy...but

If I recall, Sephiroth kinda wanted to blow up the world because fuck you that's why.

In FF8 I recall it being something like "Something something evil time witch smashing time together something something."

FF9 I recall Kuja kinda coming outta nowhere and having something to do with existential dread or something.

In FF 10 Sins turns out to be a GF that is doing shit against it's will with Yu Yevon being behind it all...I recall it's motivation to be fuck you that's why.

So, I haven't played 15 qnd I couodn't even if I wanted too, but this seems like a unfair criticism at this point.
Sephiroth is partially genovian (I guess?) and they live by draining the energy of planets, his plan was to force all the energy of the planet in one spot so he could absorb it and move on to another planet.

Ultimecia was a witch which was sealed on the moon, she's trying to come back and to do so posses other witches.

Kuja is introduced very early (end of disc 1 I think) and his plan and motivation change quite a bit over the story and are all well explained. Cliff note he was created to sow discord in the human world so that another planet could absorb all the soul of the world, later on he learn that he'll soon die so he decide to destroy the world since he doesn't want to die alone.

Yu Yuvon was a religious fanatic which disliked the way the world lived, so he created sins to forcefully establish a religion that would ban all machine.

All of them are revealed early on and you slowly learn about there motivation. In FF15 you see the bad guy maybe 5 min in total in the first 40 hour and there's not even an hint of his plan.
Wait, Yu Yevin was the leader of Zanarklard. They were losing the war against the technological power Bevelle and so created Sin as essentially a gaurdian of dream zanarkland and gave it the instructions to destroy machina or large settlements in order to halt technological progress (ie a threat)

The fayth claim that Yu Yevin is niether good nor evil but exists to protect dream zanarkland.
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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I really liked the game. What ruined it for me, even though is also is a saving grace is Umbra. Its nice you can go back to the other areas, even after the end, but seriously why introduce time travel instead of just giving you the flying car earlier? I would have had Ignis eventually get marginally better, not just have him permanently that way and simply perform at 100% anyways.

Also, having magic hurt your own team ensured that I barely ever even touched it especially as its a pain to get and make and use unless you invest heavily into it and I had more than enough elemental weapons/Ignis to handle it.

Everything before Leviathan was excellent, everything after was terrible, but they are apparently going to be fixing it so I am optimistic that eventually it will be quality throughout.

The actual story is really decent, its just a shame that 80% of it isn't in the damn game. The time skip towards the end is utterly pointless aside from making Ignis' condition improving 8% plausible. I would have liked to explore that period a lot more but you are instead whisked off to Insomnia before you know it. I kinda wanted to kill that doom wall thing with the whole gang but whatever.

The post game is actually pretty fun, too bad they couldn't just have those quests available earlier and avoid the need to use Umbra. I love the flying car, but hate you don't get AP for using it. The actual ending is fine, I would have preferred a happier one as even though you win there is like no city or leaders left outside of Lestallum.

Also I kinda liked Gladio for the hours and hours I spent roaming around Lucis but after Accordo he can pretty much get bent. Also you never learn where he went that one time, which is such obvious DLC bait it sickens me.

I liked Ardynn, unfortunately even though I understand his beef with the powers that be his methods are absolutely stupid. He could have had his revenge probably a thousand times over the centuries, and even it he had to wait until the chosen one arrived he could have just physically tossed Noctis into the damn crystal way earlier instead of gaslighting you for dozens of hours for literally no reason. I could go on about the various merits and failing of the game, Ravus in particular but overall I loved it. It was so much better than 13 I practically fell to the ground and wept tears of joy that the series had some life left in it.
 

Laughing Man

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Ok, full disclosure, I haven't played a FF in awhile abd the last I bought was 12 (on release day, playey 2 hours, was bored out of my mind and borrowed it to a friend indefinitely) so my recollections are kind of fuzzy...but

If I recall, Sephiroth kinda wanted to blow up the world because fuck you that's why.

In FF8 I recall it being something like "Something something evil time witch smashing time together something something."

FF9 I recall Kuja kinda coming outta nowhere and having something to do with existential dread or something.

In FF 10 Sins turns out to be a GF that is doing shit against it's will with Yu Yevon being behind it all...I recall it's motivation to be fuck you that's why.

So, I haven't played 15 qnd I couodn't even if I wanted too, but this seems like a unfair criticism at this point.
So, and let me get this clear here, you half remember the plots of ALL the games that came before 15, admit that you haven't played 15 and then say that my comment about the main antagonist having no clear objective or reason for the actions he takes is unfair? Are you serious?

Also, I just beat the Elite Four in Pokemon...they all had pokemon hovering between Level 50 and 60. Mine were mid 70. I'm a chronic overleverler, so ai know my shit here. You don't get to complain about the challenge disappearing in a level based game when you deliberately go out of your way to overlevel. That's just bullshit dude.
Again you haven't played the game I have and when I am going in to the final boss with lowest level, least equipped least powerful squad of characters of ANY FF game I've ever played and I am still kerb stomping the enemies by repeating the same basic commands without ever having to apply any strategy or thought to my groups set up or stats... then THAT'S a problem. Also the previous 3 maybe 4 FF games had variable levelled enemies depending on your parties stats, this game doesn't. So yeah I kinda can complain about the challenge disappearing.
 

CritialGaming

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Frankly I loved the game, but I can see where the OP is coming from.

Honestly I wish Final Fantasy would go back to a more traditional system in terms of combat and gearing. I miss the day where you got to a new town and could buy more power gear for your party, or even better, could steal and find items that powered you up in the dungeons. Items and weapons with special effects could make or break you in a boss fight. I miss that shit.

Now the games are so much about flash that they forgot how to be RPG's. The stories are mediocre at best, there is no freedom in customizing your party, there is nothing that made the old games so goddamn good.
 

Maximum Bert

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I have played for over 100 hours so far and am still enjoying it that said I should hate this game. The open world is quite an effective overworld but can be extremely tedious to traverse and does not really give the scale of travelling an entire world but then I suppose you could say it is not supposed to as the games story does not concern the whole world but rather focus`s on nations a bit like XIIs did however just like XIIs story it is handled extremely poorly.

I liked the characters more than I thought I would but due to the lack of events they dont really develop much even if they are given lots of little touches with their quips and events.

The combat is pretty shallow but it is largely unintrusive. With some slight changes I think it could actually be really good as it is it is just to easy a lot of the time but I understand why they made it easy because frankly I do not think the system as it is would make harder encounters that much fun it is just not exact or varied enough to allow a great show of skill. Then again actual combat in a FF game has always been fairly weak (how many times did you just hit attack except on a few select fights in previous FF games?).

Sidequests are also largely pointless and lack much variety but for some reason I find them largely fun in this and I cannot understand why.

The game is deeply flawed but I feel it is still a lot of fun and has had a lot of care put into it even if it feels like they were not able to completely finish what it was they set out to do.

Honestly after XII and XIII my desire to play more of the series had died out quite a bit and that is from someone who has finished all the main ones (except XI which I never even played) but XV while far from amazing has reminded me why I look forward to the series as despite all its flaws it keeps taking risks and reinventing itself in ways games of this size and budget so rarely do.
 

Laughing Man

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So that's it just completed the game and if I was to sum it up in a sentence or two it would be a game that has so much potential utterly ruined by an awful second linear half and lacklutre tedious boss fights brought about by a really shallow combat system.

In more detail, the first half is great, the combat is easy and fun if way way to shallow compared to old FF games, expect the boss battles which just turn in to total and utter cluster fucks. Yes it has a load of new features and for the most part they work but what it does right gets ruined by a lacklustre story, an enemy that had the potential to be excellent but who's motivations end up being unclear at best and stupid at worst and a linear truly awful second half. Fuck the final fight with Ardyan is basically exactly the same fight you have with Leviathan, that shows just how awful the boss battles can be.

The biggest overarching issue with FFXV is that it had the potential to be another great FF game doing new stuff and claiming a spot alongside FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9 and FF10 but the flaws just end up meaning the game stands as an FF game I played and completed and will never go back too (unless Square really do make big changes to the second half) and that's the biggest bug bear. If it were a bad FF like FF13 then fine it's just a bad FF game but it averages out as deeply flawed with the potential to have been really really great and that annoys me quite considerably.
 

Fox12

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I think it's possibly the worst final fantasy to date. Yes, even worse then 13. The story is all over the place. Whereas 13 forced you to read the exposition in text form, 15 doesn't bother to give you exposition at all. Large parts of the game were cut out, leaving it a hollowed version of its former self. The game play only forces you to hold down a single button during combat. It's has some of the most shameless product placement I've ever seen. The characters are bearable, but not memorable. All in all, it was a highly disappointing release.
 

balladbird

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the most frustrating thing about the game, for me, is definitely how close it is to being truly great, yet falls short... so I can agree with you on that level.

It's a serviceable game. I played the hell out of it for weeks, and loved my time with it, but it definitely had its fair share of flaws.

Completely tying the player to the lead character, such that we only see and understand events as he does, was a pretty interesting experiment, but this game is also a perfect example of why most stories don't do that: it makes everything confusing and overwhelming, which is fine for the main character to go through, since those things are catalysts for character development, but those aren't emotions you generally want to impose onto your audience. For me, this reached its apex when we saw the conclusion of Revas' storyline. I saw it, laughed, and went "really? What was he even in this game for, man?" X D

With a slightly more involving combat system, a better-framed story, and important details of the lore not being ferried off to a separate movie to be purchased separately, FF XV could have been the most definitive final fantasy game since FF7... the potential for greatness here is mindblowing. Sady, as it is, it's an alright game, good enough for the peeps who like it to find things to praise, and peeps who dislike it to find things to gripe about... for a few months, and then it'll fade from memory like most games. Kinda sad, but ah well. At least it helped kill a couple months as I patiently wait for them to get tired of delaying the localization of Persona 5. DX
 

KoudelkaMorgan

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I just finished Pitioss, and seriously its become one of the highlights of the game. Sure its a ***** to get to, and a pain in the ass to go through, and I missed the damn Genji Gloves which I am in no way going to go back for but it was awesome.
 

Silvanus

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Meiam said:
Sephiroth is partially genovian (I guess?) and they live by draining the energy of planets, his plan was to force all the energy of the planet in one spot so he could absorb it and move on to another planet.
Not quite. Sephiroth has cells inside him from the extraterrestrial entity Jenova (who he considers his "mother"). It is Jenova which skipped from planet to planet, destroying and moving on, before it was defeated and sealed away dormant on Gaia (the planet of FF7).

Jenova is reawakened and released during the events of FF7, and aids Sephiroth. But, nothing really indicates that Sephiroth shares his "mother's" desire to destroy the planet and move on. He seems to want to absorb the Mako energy and become a god.


Meiam said:
Ultimecia was a witch which was sealed on the moon, she's trying to come back and to do so posses other witches.
Ultimecia is not the one sealed away in space; that's Adel, the former ruler of the nation of Esthar (and a secondary antagonist). Ultimecia frees Adel so that she may possess her.

Ultimecia resides in the far future, and only interacts with the "present" by throwing her consciousness back through time, and interacting with the past by possessing others.