Hi folks, so after hearing so much about DS, I finally caved in and gave it a shot( even though I prefer a more direct type of storytelling like in typical WRPG'S).
But seriously, I was pretty damn surprised with how many issues I've encountered.
Ok, I'll categorize here, from worst to least:
1. Camera
The worst I've personally come across in action/rpg ( barring unpatched NWN II). It lags behind every player movement, (especially in close quarters) it gets stuck on walls, it gets stuck on enemies ( typically when being chased or with bosses), it has no zoom out function and the FoV is too narrow when dealing with several opponents. In a way, it is similar to RE VI and how it tries to play as classical action horror and then switches to CoD in open field, while keeping the same camera...so you end up running in circles and janking it left and right to get a better view, and pray to gods you don't get killed in process. Even the basic movement simply feels unsatisfying with it.
2. Lock on
Directly affected by camera, but also glitchy on it's own. Randomly stops during targeting, causing the player to spin around and shoot in opposite direction. Ironically, sometimes I had opposite issues...it would get stuck on enemies, and would not unlock. Sometimes it would spin around and even target enemies through walls...specifically, on top of Sen's Fortress. Sometimes it targets enemies behind your target even if you're not aiming towards them. Plus because of too narrow camera view, it functions poorly especially with fast enemies( catacombs, ugh) moving around you as you completely loose control and it starts jumping from one to next. This makes archery, sorcery, piromancy, bombs... inprecise and frustrating at times. And melee is also very dependent on it as well, especially when it comes to backstabs.
3. Backstab and Parry
There is always a split of a second before animation starts that feels like experiencing bottleneck. Then the camera tries to catch up and it janks to the side, making entire transition feel incredibly clumsy( compare it to how it's done in Arkham games). The animation itself is pointlessly long and breaks the flow of combat...parry should be a quick slide of enemy's weapon followed by instant counterattack, without taking control from the player for too long. Both targets are immune to outside damage, which break immersion as enemies just keep slicing through air, when they're near. Then the target falls to the ground and becomes invulnerable until it gets up. Again completely pulls you out of combat...like a poor QTE sequence, without at least any visual appeal that comes with them.
Plus, against regular enemies player moves too quickly horizontally, as a result backstabs are far too easy and require little more than holding direction key opposite of enemy's attacks.
4. Archery...the weakest I've seen in years. Completely unsatisfying sounds, no "feel" of tension when drawing the string or piercing armor, no first person, plus enemies are slow and weak at dodging.
5. Magic...uninspired and borderline broken. 90% of it consists of recasting the same spell, over and over. Soul Arrow-Great Soul Arrow- Heavy Soul Arrow- Great Heavy Soul Arrow- Crystal Spear, etc, etc. No visual or audio appeal, not even remotely comparable next to almost any rpg out there. Hell, even Gothic has a far more interesting magic, fifteen years back. Plus, enemy AI radius is often too narrow and you just blast them from the distance, without anyone even reacting. Some sections( like Tomb of Giants) are cake walk as a result.
6. Enemy AI...At first they seem impressive, because of variety of movesets, however AI is very simple and easily exploitable. They easily fall from ledges. They rarely dynamically respond in combat, like when I'm clearly holding my shield, they try to blindly attack which leaves them staggered. Bosses are easily beaten with summons, which are conveniently resistant to their damage, while you just hit them from behind. Ranged attackers are particularly weak...without even repositioning and just mindlessly shooting in your direction, even when there is a wall blocking their way. At melee, even if you move out of their range, they keep attacking and just blindly swing at air. They attack through walls, etc, etc. The game, not once surprised me with a sense of enemies intelligently responding( like I've had with Exanima for instance)...they feel more like dolls, each limited with a few types of attacks and very predictable/or cheap sometimes encounter design( giving the world a gimmicky feel, like everything exists to kill you and is placed like they knew you were coming and from which direction).
Despite the variety of weapon play styles, it makes entire combat feel stiff and comes down to simple "leash'em" "strategy" and rigid memorization of attack patterns, without any sense of dynamic interaction between AI/physics.
7. Physics and "cheesy difficulty"...enemy attacks pass through walls, while player is stunlocked at the same( which makes close quarter encounters( which happens a LOT) and one boss fight in particular annoying). Enemies ( in most cases) are immune to friendly fire. Their arrows change direction and follow the player. They also track with melee attacks, which as a result of poorly synchronized movement animations gives appearance like they're standing on a spinning record.( even during jump attacks while in air). They jump from corners or are placed in illogical places( Twin archers in Londo). No weapon interaction( they just phase through one another), or anything even remotely comparable to Dark Messiah and similar games.
8. UI...too clumsy and without allowing instant access to weapons/abilities. As a result, hybrid classes feel very restrictive...you have to equip a catalyst/flame and then cast it, which is at best incredibly clumsy ( compare throwing bombs in Witcher next to DS) near suicide in close combat. This feels like a wasted opportunity...combat would be far more enjoyable and allow more creativity if you could quickly switch between them and combine them into unique playstyle..open with a greatsword, backstab with a dagger, then finish with a fireball. But UI/janky animations simply prevent that.
9. Hitboxes and visual inaccuracies
Two issues in particular stand out: Thrusting attacks sometimes not registering (on both sides) and enemy grappling attacks being much wider than they appear. Also game seems to have issues on occassion with poor synchronization of animations/models...I tested this with Painted world guardians in Londo: I'd turn my back, wait for them to attack, quickly sprint away just before it hits and Still get pulled into animation of being backstabbed. Or with Zweihander hitting targets, even when they're nowhere near when it actually hits( typically with fast targets). Often backstab would not even trigger, even when standing in perfect position. Some things don't make any sense or look silly...backstab with a club? Slicing with a mace?
10. "Fun" factor...this is subjective, but feels entirely lacking in DS. Where are the cool movesets like Chaos Slayer/Way of the Goddess from Severance? There are no interesting combos like in Bayonetta/Gaiden, no good choreography like in Arkham/Mordor/Witcher, no interaction with environment like in Messiah, no ecstatic music, abilities are plain and without any kind of visual appeal( compare to Dogma), no gore animations, no stamina rewarding mechanics( like precise blocking etc), animations feel stiff ( giving more a sense of controlling/fighting against a doll) and sounds are at best decent. Plus the endless repetition of dying and going through same encounters that always play exactly the same...video game labor.
11. Controls...not as terrible as some exaggerate , but for a game entirely oriented toward action: not good. Plus, there is a noticeable input lag, especially with jumping/dodging/rolling.
12. Boss fights... not bad, but disappointed in more than a few: Nito, Gwyndolin, Discharge, Butterfly, Seath, Capri demon, Hydra, etc... Majority are fairly standard with only a few exceptional ones.
13. Overrealiance on I-frames...which makes evasion feel counterintuitive and positioning far less important.
I could go on and on with more smaller issues, but this is the most of it. I wouldn't say it is a poor combat system as a whole... there is plenty of variety with enemies, weapons, playstyles, etc. But it also has very obvious issues in almost every fundamental aspect of gameplay, some of which to me are blatantly obvious.
Why is this praised ( by it's fan base at least) as top tier combat system?
But seriously, I was pretty damn surprised with how many issues I've encountered.
Ok, I'll categorize here, from worst to least:
1. Camera
The worst I've personally come across in action/rpg ( barring unpatched NWN II). It lags behind every player movement, (especially in close quarters) it gets stuck on walls, it gets stuck on enemies ( typically when being chased or with bosses), it has no zoom out function and the FoV is too narrow when dealing with several opponents. In a way, it is similar to RE VI and how it tries to play as classical action horror and then switches to CoD in open field, while keeping the same camera...so you end up running in circles and janking it left and right to get a better view, and pray to gods you don't get killed in process. Even the basic movement simply feels unsatisfying with it.
2. Lock on
Directly affected by camera, but also glitchy on it's own. Randomly stops during targeting, causing the player to spin around and shoot in opposite direction. Ironically, sometimes I had opposite issues...it would get stuck on enemies, and would not unlock. Sometimes it would spin around and even target enemies through walls...specifically, on top of Sen's Fortress. Sometimes it targets enemies behind your target even if you're not aiming towards them. Plus because of too narrow camera view, it functions poorly especially with fast enemies( catacombs, ugh) moving around you as you completely loose control and it starts jumping from one to next. This makes archery, sorcery, piromancy, bombs... inprecise and frustrating at times. And melee is also very dependent on it as well, especially when it comes to backstabs.
3. Backstab and Parry
There is always a split of a second before animation starts that feels like experiencing bottleneck. Then the camera tries to catch up and it janks to the side, making entire transition feel incredibly clumsy( compare it to how it's done in Arkham games). The animation itself is pointlessly long and breaks the flow of combat...parry should be a quick slide of enemy's weapon followed by instant counterattack, without taking control from the player for too long. Both targets are immune to outside damage, which break immersion as enemies just keep slicing through air, when they're near. Then the target falls to the ground and becomes invulnerable until it gets up. Again completely pulls you out of combat...like a poor QTE sequence, without at least any visual appeal that comes with them.
Plus, against regular enemies player moves too quickly horizontally, as a result backstabs are far too easy and require little more than holding direction key opposite of enemy's attacks.
4. Archery...the weakest I've seen in years. Completely unsatisfying sounds, no "feel" of tension when drawing the string or piercing armor, no first person, plus enemies are slow and weak at dodging.
5. Magic...uninspired and borderline broken. 90% of it consists of recasting the same spell, over and over. Soul Arrow-Great Soul Arrow- Heavy Soul Arrow- Great Heavy Soul Arrow- Crystal Spear, etc, etc. No visual or audio appeal, not even remotely comparable next to almost any rpg out there. Hell, even Gothic has a far more interesting magic, fifteen years back. Plus, enemy AI radius is often too narrow and you just blast them from the distance, without anyone even reacting. Some sections( like Tomb of Giants) are cake walk as a result.
6. Enemy AI...At first they seem impressive, because of variety of movesets, however AI is very simple and easily exploitable. They easily fall from ledges. They rarely dynamically respond in combat, like when I'm clearly holding my shield, they try to blindly attack which leaves them staggered. Bosses are easily beaten with summons, which are conveniently resistant to their damage, while you just hit them from behind. Ranged attackers are particularly weak...without even repositioning and just mindlessly shooting in your direction, even when there is a wall blocking their way. At melee, even if you move out of their range, they keep attacking and just blindly swing at air. They attack through walls, etc, etc. The game, not once surprised me with a sense of enemies intelligently responding( like I've had with Exanima for instance)...they feel more like dolls, each limited with a few types of attacks and very predictable/or cheap sometimes encounter design( giving the world a gimmicky feel, like everything exists to kill you and is placed like they knew you were coming and from which direction).
Despite the variety of weapon play styles, it makes entire combat feel stiff and comes down to simple "leash'em" "strategy" and rigid memorization of attack patterns, without any sense of dynamic interaction between AI/physics.
7. Physics and "cheesy difficulty"...enemy attacks pass through walls, while player is stunlocked at the same( which makes close quarter encounters( which happens a LOT) and one boss fight in particular annoying). Enemies ( in most cases) are immune to friendly fire. Their arrows change direction and follow the player. They also track with melee attacks, which as a result of poorly synchronized movement animations gives appearance like they're standing on a spinning record.( even during jump attacks while in air). They jump from corners or are placed in illogical places( Twin archers in Londo). No weapon interaction( they just phase through one another), or anything even remotely comparable to Dark Messiah and similar games.
8. UI...too clumsy and without allowing instant access to weapons/abilities. As a result, hybrid classes feel very restrictive...you have to equip a catalyst/flame and then cast it, which is at best incredibly clumsy ( compare throwing bombs in Witcher next to DS) near suicide in close combat. This feels like a wasted opportunity...combat would be far more enjoyable and allow more creativity if you could quickly switch between them and combine them into unique playstyle..open with a greatsword, backstab with a dagger, then finish with a fireball. But UI/janky animations simply prevent that.
9. Hitboxes and visual inaccuracies
Two issues in particular stand out: Thrusting attacks sometimes not registering (on both sides) and enemy grappling attacks being much wider than they appear. Also game seems to have issues on occassion with poor synchronization of animations/models...I tested this with Painted world guardians in Londo: I'd turn my back, wait for them to attack, quickly sprint away just before it hits and Still get pulled into animation of being backstabbed. Or with Zweihander hitting targets, even when they're nowhere near when it actually hits( typically with fast targets). Often backstab would not even trigger, even when standing in perfect position. Some things don't make any sense or look silly...backstab with a club? Slicing with a mace?
10. "Fun" factor...this is subjective, but feels entirely lacking in DS. Where are the cool movesets like Chaos Slayer/Way of the Goddess from Severance? There are no interesting combos like in Bayonetta/Gaiden, no good choreography like in Arkham/Mordor/Witcher, no interaction with environment like in Messiah, no ecstatic music, abilities are plain and without any kind of visual appeal( compare to Dogma), no gore animations, no stamina rewarding mechanics( like precise blocking etc), animations feel stiff ( giving more a sense of controlling/fighting against a doll) and sounds are at best decent. Plus the endless repetition of dying and going through same encounters that always play exactly the same...video game labor.
11. Controls...not as terrible as some exaggerate , but for a game entirely oriented toward action: not good. Plus, there is a noticeable input lag, especially with jumping/dodging/rolling.
12. Boss fights... not bad, but disappointed in more than a few: Nito, Gwyndolin, Discharge, Butterfly, Seath, Capri demon, Hydra, etc... Majority are fairly standard with only a few exceptional ones.
13. Overrealiance on I-frames...which makes evasion feel counterintuitive and positioning far less important.
I could go on and on with more smaller issues, but this is the most of it. I wouldn't say it is a poor combat system as a whole... there is plenty of variety with enemies, weapons, playstyles, etc. But it also has very obvious issues in almost every fundamental aspect of gameplay, some of which to me are blatantly obvious.
Why is this praised ( by it's fan base at least) as top tier combat system?
