Fire Emblem 'Casual mode'

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Torrasque

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I just picked up Fire Emblem Awakening and am starting my game. I flipped through the small instruction guide to see if anything had changed, no nothing really. I know there are some pretty big changes in the game, but the game will tell me whats up when the time comes.

The difficulties are:
Normal - For beginners that have never played a Fire Emblem
Hard - For veterans of Fire Emblem
Lunatic - The hard mode

No big deal about the difficulties, I find it amusing that it isn't easy/medium/hard like normal, its more normal/hard/really fucking hard. This is pretty normal for Fire Emblem, all of them have several difficulties to choose from. Interesting that I can go straight into the hardest mode at the start though, usually you have to beat it once on normal to unlock it.

But here is what bugs me a bit. After you choose your difficulty, you choose 'Game mode'
Casual - Fallen units return. You can save anywhere.
Classic - Units are lost forever. Each decision counts.

For those of you who have never played a Fire Emblem game--first of all, I pity you, they are amazing games--when a unit dies, it stays dead. Permanently. For characters that are essential to the story, they are "wounded" and can never fight again, but are still alive for cutscenes. For characters that are not essential to the story, they are dead. You can't talk to them, they don't say anything in the story, their items are gone, they are dead. This makes you, the strategist/commander of the field, play very carefully to keep everyone alive, or play like a dick and sacrifice someone so you can complete an objective. When I play Fire Emblem, I never let someone die. If anyone dies, I restart the level and play differently so I can keep everyone alive.

But back to this Casual mode, it kind of bugs me. I'll never play it because it goes against everything I know about Fire Emblem, so it doesn't affect me. Should I be mad that it is there? Well, I think people who pick it are doing it because they don't want that much of a challenge in the game. Maybe they just want to play the story and get through the combat easily. This additional mode doesn't affect my experience of the game. Halo has an easy and normal difficulty which I never touch, and they don't bug me.

So is there anything wrong with this Casual mode? Since it doesn't affect me in any way, no, there is nothing wrong with it. Do I like it? No, I think it takes away from the experience of Fire Emblem, but it is impossible for me to say what other people enjoy about Fire Emblem.

TL;DR: This extremely easy mode bothers me, but since I don't have to use it and can play the game the way I want to, its not a bad thing. I can understand why people might want to use it, but its not for me.

Discussion value:
This kind of ties into the "easy mode" for Dark Souls or other games that have "easier than normal" difficulties discussion. It doesn't affect you in any way, you can play the game your way, and other people can play the game their way. If you feel that it takes away from the core experience of the game, then that is just being narrow minded. There is no way that you can say, "this is the way that the game is meant to be played". What you actually mean is, "this is the way I enjoy the game, and I think it is the best way to enjoy this game to the fullest. Any other way is inferior to my way of playing" which is extremely narrow minded. You are welcome to your opinions, but expecting other people to follow them is just silly. Yes, I know how ironic it is for me to say that.

What do you think about this Casual mode?
Have you played games that have an "easy mode" included? What did you think about it?
 

Smooth Operator

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May I ask why the easy mode bothers you?

I played plenty of games with easy mode, because there are actually very few games with devs stuck so far up their own ass they don't allow options in gameplay.
Now I mostly get really frustrated with modern games having no proper difficulty to them thus offering next to no reward in gameplay, but I imagine the same goes for people who hit a wall that can't be climbed.
 

Torrasque

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Mr.K. said:
May I ask why the easy mode bothers you?

I played plenty of games with easy mode, because there are actually very few games with devs stuck so far up their own ass they don't allow options in gameplay.
Now I mostly get really frustrated with modern games having no proper difficulty to them thus offering next to no reward in gameplay, but I imagine the same goes for people who hit a wall that can't be climbed.
I've always played Fire Emblem games with the permanent death in place, there has never been the option to change it until this game.
When you play a game where one mistake (or "what the fuck, really?" bullshit...) can kill a unit you've put a lot of time and effort into lvling up, a character that you've gotten attached to because of the personality quirks and how they interact with the story, you get really attached to that character. Its like playing the Hardcore mode of Diablo 2; when you lose your character that is lvl 85, you are emotionally devastated. That blow isn't as severe in Fire Emblem because you can just restart the level and try again, but its still there.

This easy mode bothers me because it takes away any challenge of the game. If you fuck up or throw a unit into a position where they die, it sucks, but you get them back later. Its no longer a game where you have to be careful and calculating, you can do anything you want with minimal negative penalties. In the other Fire Emblems, I'd take a long time deciding where to position my units so they could do the maximum amount of damage without risking their lives.

Its a lot like the difference between health regen and non-health regen in games. Health regen allows you to do whatever you want for a limited time, then jump into cover and regen your health. Non-health regen are more tactical and challenging because you can't just run around and do whatever you want, you have to take calculated risks so you don't use up your health.

TL;DR: it takes the strategic challenge out of the game, and that is not rewarding at all.
 

sextus the crazy

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Torrasque said:
For those of you who have never played a Fire Emblem game--first of all, I pity you, they are amazing games
Amen, Brother.


Torrasque said:
But back to this Casual mode, it kind of bugs me. I'll never play it because it goes against everything I know about Fire Emblem, so it doesn't affect me. Should I be mad that it is there? Well, I think people who pick it are doing it because they don't want that much of a challenge in the game. Maybe they just want to play the story and get through the combat easily. This additional mode doesn't affect my experience of the game. Halo has an easy and normal difficulty which I never touch, and they don't bug me.

So is there anything wrong with this Casual mode? Since it doesn't affect me in any way, no, there is nothing wrong with it. Do I like it? No, I think it takes away from the experience of Fire Emblem, but it is impossible for me to say what other people enjoy about Fire Emblem.
Totally. I'm glad that they included this feature. Fire Emblem's fan base is small enough that the last game wasn't even released outside of Japan. I fell that we're too small to exclude people; not that I'd ever want to exclude people from my fandom. I want people to enjoy my hobbies, too!

Not to mention, casual mode makes Lunatic mode much more manageable and fun. Too bad the US will never see casual Lunatic reverse, though.
 

Andrewtheeviscerator

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Feb 23, 2012
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wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, how did you get Fire emblem already, it doesn't come out till February 4th.

On to the topic at hand, since I've never played a Fire emblem game before and I hate games that punish you with character perma death I have to say casual mode is perfect for me and I'll probably do most of my playthroughs on it. Also it's not extremely easy mode, the game can still be very difficult you just don't have to worry about perma death which as I said before is perfect for me. And no you shouldn't be bothered by a game offering different experiences to other people, and if you are then your just being entitled.
 

Soxafloppin

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Jun 22, 2009
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More options is better, fact. As long as they don't effect people playing on the other difficulty levels.

Also I've noticed that Easy mode is now called Casual mode quite a lot of the time....
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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I suppose it was only a matter of time. Consider that the absolute number one complaint about the Fire Emblem series made by people new to it is the Permadeath factor. Having an option to turn that off is just the devs playing to the market. Would you prefer they eliminated it entirely? Of course I won't be using it, but I can't blame them for wanting to make a game more accessible.

Dunno if naming Easy Mode 'Casual' in more games lately was intentionally playing to people's prejudices, but it's as good a way as any to make fewer veteran gamers play it to start with. The most recent sighting of it for me was the Easy Mode in Mega Man 10, which really does feel like the game is patronizing you with the number of full-life refills scattered around and the elimination of all spikes.
 

TreuloseTomate

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If you play Casual Mode in Fire Emblem, you are not playing Fire Emblem.
If you play Easy Mode in Dark Souls, you are not playing Dark Souls.
If you play Kids Mode in Viewtiful Joe, you are not playing Viewtiful Joe.
 

romanator0

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I really don't see anything wrong with there being a Casual mode in Fire Emblem. If people are afraid of the idea of permadeath or are annoyed by it then they don't have to deal with it. For those people who don't see permadeath as an issue, well then they can just pretend that casual mode doesn't exist and not use it.

Also, and I think I speak for everyone when I ask this, how the heck do you already have Fire Emblem: Awakening?
 

Torrasque

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Andrewtheeviscerator said:
wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, how did you get Fire emblem already, it doesn't come out till February 4th.
romanator0 said:
Also, and I think I speak for everyone when I ask this, how the heck do you already have Fire Emblem: Awakening?
Huh, well thats weird, I thought it came out Feb 1st for everyone. Maybe its just Canada? Or maybe its just my EB Games dropping the ball? Either way, I have it now and it doesn't bother me at all, lol
 

lacktheknack

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So basically, it turned into "The Shining Force", a significantly better game than Fire Emblem?

Trust me, The Shining Force proved that resurrection is no replacement for strategy. I can't speak for how Fire Emblem Casual does it, admittedly, but it can be done.
 

Torrasque

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
But surely it is up to the player to decide for themselves if it's rewarding or not.

As you said yourself, it's an optional mode. Which means, if a player chooses to play casual mode, it's because they want to, as that is what they feel will be most rewarding for them.

I enjoy Fire Emblem, but being honest, I like the idea of a Casual mode. While the permadeath thing does make things more intense, that doesn't mean it always feels more rewarding. Honestly, spending upwards of 15 minutes on one battle, only to have a character die because of one silly mistake... it frustrates me. Do I restart the whole battle, and go through the arduous process again? Or do I take the loss?

Now, you might say that's the whole point of the game, but I disagree. I play the game to have some fun. Replaying an entire battle, or progressing with a gimped army, isn't fun. It winds me up. Honestly, there have been times playing Fire Emblem where one character's death has been enough to turn off my GBA, and stop playing the game for a while, simply because continuing with a gimped army doesn't have much prospect of fun, and redoing the whole battle seems like a chore.

If there was an option, a la FF Tactics, to revive characters in-game within a certain time limit, then I think Casual mode would be a bit more redundant. As it is, it sounds like a smart way to appeal to gamers like me, who really enjoy the Fire Emblem series, yet still find it incredibly frustrating at times.

Again, that's not to say that permadeath doesn't have its place. But by the same token, not everyone wants to play for the uber-hardcore, intense, emotional ride that you seem to value.
I know that its up to each individual to decide for themselves if it's rewarding or not, I said so in my OP. I considering it not rewarding :p
Lol, I've put many Fire Emblem games on hold because of that frustrating "play a level for 40 minutes then have someone die because an enemy with 2 crit got a crit and 1-shotted my unit" bullshit, so yeah, I definitely agree with you that it is a chore sometimes. But when I beat the level after all those tries, it feels soooo good.
sextus the crazy said:
Torrasque said:
For those of you who have never played a Fire Emblem game--first of all, I pity you, they are amazing games
Amen, Brother.


Torrasque said:
But back to this Casual mode, it kind of bugs me. I'll never play it because it goes against everything I know about Fire Emblem, so it doesn't affect me. Should I be mad that it is there? Well, I think people who pick it are doing it because they don't want that much of a challenge in the game. Maybe they just want to play the story and get through the combat easily. This additional mode doesn't affect my experience of the game. Halo has an easy and normal difficulty which I never touch, and they don't bug me.

So is there anything wrong with this Casual mode? Since it doesn't affect me in any way, no, there is nothing wrong with it. Do I like it? No, I think it takes away from the experience of Fire Emblem, but it is impossible for me to say what other people enjoy about Fire Emblem.
Totally. I'm glad that they included this feature. Fire Emblem's fan base is small enough that the last game wasn't even released outside of Japan. I fell that we're too small to exclude people; not that I'd ever want to exclude people from my fandom. I want people to enjoy my hobbies, too!

Not to mention, casual mode makes Lunatic mode much more manageable and fun. Too bad the US will never see casual Lunatic reverse, though.
Thats a good point. Expanding the fan base of the gloriousness that is Fire Emblem and Intelligent Systems, is always good.
Also, your avatar is really awesome :eek:

Andrewtheeviscerator said:
wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, how did you get Fire emblem already, it doesn't come out till February 4th.

On to the topic at hand, since I've never played a Fire emblem game before and I hate games that punish you with character perma death I have to say casual mode is perfect for me and I'll probably do most of my playthroughs on it. Also it's not extremely easy mode, the game can still be very difficult you just don't have to worry about perma death which as I said before is perfect for me. And no you shouldn't be bothered by a game offering different experiences to other people, and if you are then your just being entitled.
I'm on level 4 right now, and the game is so incredibly harsh and unforgiving right now. None of my units can take out an enemy 1v1, and only a few can beat an enemy 2v1... I've had to resort to zerg tactics and playing ultra defensive to get as far as I am right now, lol.
And I am more bothered that the option is there for me, as if the game is saying, "hey, if you want, you can play the easier mode", and I don't appreciate the offer.

TizzytheTormentor said:
What is it with people and difficulty?

They are making the game more accessible, you don't have to use it, but some people who do not want to deal with the frustrations of permadeath will feel more comfortable playing the games. The more accessible the game is, the more people will buy it, which in turn, equals more sales of the game.

One of my friends hated the permadeath aspect but loved everything else, not because he is a filthy casual, but because he doesn't want to lose tough units and have to train new ones back up again, so this game will be a godsend to him.

I just wish people would stop using casual as some sort of cuss word.
I enjoy the challenge of vidya games. Sometime today (sunday) I plan on beating the Hardcore mode of Dead Space 2, the mode that only lets you save 3 times and if you die, you revert to save. Partially because its one of the only achievements I have left to get, but also because I want to get 100% completion on Dead Space 2. I have it for Dead Space 1 :)

I don't have a problem with the word "Casual", its the mode that I have a problem with. If it was called "Heaven mode" or "Cookie mode", I'd still dislike it.
 

sextus the crazy

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Torrasque said:
sextus the crazy said:
Torrasque said:
For those of you who have never played a Fire Emblem game--first of all, I pity you, they are amazing games
Amen, Brother.


Torrasque said:
But back to this Casual mode, it kind of bugs me. I'll never play it because it goes against everything I know about Fire Emblem, so it doesn't affect me. Should I be mad that it is there? Well, I think people who pick it are doing it because they don't want that much of a challenge in the game. Maybe they just want to play the story and get through the combat easily. This additional mode doesn't affect my experience of the game. Halo has an easy and normal difficulty which I never touch, and they don't bug me.

So is there anything wrong with this Casual mode? Since it doesn't affect me in any way, no, there is nothing wrong with it. Do I like it? No, I think it takes away from the experience of Fire Emblem, but it is impossible for me to say what other people enjoy about Fire Emblem.
Totally. I'm glad that they included this feature. Fire Emblem's fan base is small enough that the last game wasn't even released outside of Japan. I fell that we're too small to exclude people; not that I'd ever want to exclude people from my fandom. I want people to enjoy my hobbies, too!

Not to mention, casual mode makes Lunatic mode much more manageable and fun. Too bad the US will never see casual Lunatic reverse, though.
Thats a good point. Expanding the fan base of the gloriousness that is Fire Emblem and Intelligent Systems, is always good.
Also, your avatar is really awesome :eek:
danke schön :)
Cynthia has a pretty pimp animation.

OT: The whole "easy mode ruins the game thing" never really held water with me. It completely assumes that challenging difficulty is the only appeal of the game. games can have interesting stories and characters, music, and ascetics: too ignore those draws sells games short.
 

natster43

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I don't really see a problem with it, hell I might use it so I don't have to deal with restarting every time my guys die since I am insane and can't let my guys die. Yeah it does take out the strategy and the main aspect of the series, but for newer people or people like me who are just going to restart if their characters die, it is a good alternative. Though I would probably at least attempt it on classic mode at first.
 

Risingblade

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I didn't play Fire Emblem for the difficulty, I played it for the combat and I liked the story..I had no idea difficulty was even an issue.
 

Tanis

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Aug 30, 2010
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So...you're bitching about a mode that:
A) Isn't required.

B) Hasn't hurt the the rest of the game's design

C) Will probably bring in MORE people, which means the next game is MORE likely to come out for NTSC-U?

I...um...huh.
 

Kopikatsu

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I have to ask, if you just restart the level if any unit dies so that you don't have to suffer the consequences of your actions...how is that different from casual mode?

Take Skyrim. Sure, you /could/ 'cheat' to get your weapon/illusion skill up to 100 with zero effort. Or you could just access the console and give yourself 100 in those skills to just be done with it. It's not fairly earned either way.