Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia

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Yoshi178

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New Trailer

Special Edition announced for PAL regions


EDIT cause some idiot reported me because apparently a new trailer for a game isn't enough of a way to start a topic discusion for their precious little soul. so anyway a mod got me to add my thoughts to aplease this person

so anyway i'm pretty excited for this game and super hyped about this Limited Edition. i love that we're getting an artbook and a soundtrack. waaaaaaayyy better than some steelbook or something like companies can usually put in special editions.


your thoughts everyone?
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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It interests me. The open map, the dungens, not having unit pairing. Unit pairing is like the thing I hate about JTRPS. I hope they do something neat with the world map too.
 

CritialGaming

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I'm too stupid for these games. They are too hard for me. I'd rather do naked Dark Souls runs.

But I really like the stories. Which angers me. So I usually have to watch these on the Youtube to experience them.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Aug 25, 2014
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So, Archers don't suck anymore. For the longest time, they were little more than a niche unit used to deal with flying units. Now, they're looking borderline OP.

Doing away with paired units is a mixed bag. On one hand, I appreciated the added complexity by choosing whether to pair your units for defense, or group them together for offense. On the other hand, there's something to be said for simplicity.

I'm also assuming that support conversations are still present, even though the trailer didn't mention them. I'd say that making them a major feature was at least 75% of the reason Fire Emblem: Awakening was so successful, and Nintendo would be idiots to neglect them for this entry. Though, it wouldn't surprise me to see the developers learn entirely the wrong lesson from how marriage and kids were handled in Fates.
 

Scarim Coral

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Seeing how the last 3DG I bought was Pokemon Moon, I am hyped for him especially when I have been playing FE: Heroes.

The new twist does intrigue despite being minor (certain spell are effect against certaim units and archer can counterattack at melee range now).

As for the PAL special edition, I gonna pass. At least Echoes is not split into two faction eventhought it does sound like a two versions game but I guess it is like Scared Stone (or is it the other way around since Echo is a remake) that both main characters chapters are still in one memory card.
 

go-10

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I hated Gaiden with a passion, using HP to cast magic, having limited arrows, Celica's stupid team of weaklings, and all the goddamn boat chapters! Like seriously 90% of the battles were on boats!
not to mention that dungeons were just one big room with monsters spread through out... idk I'm hoping they changed it for the best to try an emulate Awakening style as much as possible but ti doesn't look like it, this might be Shadow Dragon (DS) all over again
 

meiam

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SlumlordThanatos said:
So, Archers don't suck anymore. For the longest time, they were little more than a niche unit used to deal with flying units. Now, they're looking borderline OP.

Doing away with paired units is a mixed bag. On one hand, I appreciated the added complexity by choosing whether to pair your units for defense, or group them together for offense. On the other hand, there's something to be said for simplicity.

I'm also assuming that support conversations are still present, even though the trailer didn't mention them. I'd say that making them a major feature was at least 75% of the reason Fire Emblem: Awakening was so successful, and Nintendo would be idiots to neglect them for this entry. Though, it wouldn't surprise me to see the developers learn entirely the wrong lesson from how marriage and kids were handled in Fates.
Depend on the version, but in some archer were amazing, when they got long range bow for 3 square attack or could use ballista and in some case had some pretty sweet skills.

Getting rid of unit pairing is a straight up positive imo. The challenge in FE usually come from 1) soft or hard turn limit (bandit attacking and destroying town or "win by X turns") and 2) unit overwhelming your front line and reaching your squishy back line. Unit pairing completely destroy the second type of challenge since you can now just pair your squishy with front line unit. Which meant you either had map with turn limit (in which case you pair for offense and your just back to regular case without pairing) or walks in the park map.
 

EternallyBored

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SlumlordThanatos said:
So, Archers don't suck anymore. For the longest time, they were little more than a niche unit used to deal with flying units. Now, they're looking borderline OP.

Doing away with paired units is a mixed bag. On one hand, I appreciated the added complexity by choosing whether to pair your units for defense, or group them together for offense. On the other hand, there's something to be said for simplicity.

I'm also assuming that support conversations are still present, even though the trailer didn't mention them. I'd say that making them a major feature was at least 75% of the reason Fire Emblem: Awakening was so successful, and Nintendo would be idiots to neglect them for this entry. Though, it wouldn't surprise me to see the developers learn entirely the wrong lesson from how marriage and kids were handled in Fates.
A lot of the changes are likely because of this games status as a remake rather than a new entry in the series, so stuff like paired units and archer changes are because that's how the old game did it rather than a shift in design philosophy that will be used in future fire emblem games.

Same with support conversations, if they don't include them it will be more likely because the game has a fixed story being ported from the original game rather than Nintendo learning the wrong lessons.

This whole entry smacks of being a fairly standard B team remake to keep interest in the series high while they have their A team working on the next new entry. It also serves to introduce new players in the West to the series who likely missed or simply didn't get the old games in their region. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I would not rely on changes in this entry being carried over to the next brand new FE game or missing features to be indicative of them removing anything either.
 

Marik2

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Someone guide me where to start with the series. I somewhat played the DS ones, but people say they're not that good and the animations suck.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Marik2 said:
Someone guide me where to start with the series. I somewhat played the DS ones, but people say they're not that good and the animations suck.
Start with Fire Emblem for the GBA. That one was the first of the series to be released in the United States (it's the 7th entry overall), and, I feel, gives the purest Fire Emblem experience.

If you'd rather ease into the series, playing FE: The Sacred Stones for the GBA can introduce you to the series while also being the easiest title by a fair margin (seriously, it's not difficult to beat the game using only Seth, who is the first non-Lord unit you get).

But really, the series doesn't have much continuity; only a handful of the games are connected, and none of them require you to play the previous game in order to know what's going on.
 

Hawki

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CritialGaming said:
I'm too stupid for these games. They are too hard for me. I'd rather do naked Dark Souls runs.
Not that I've ever played it, but how the heck is Dark Souls less difficult than Fire Emblem?

Still, if it is less difficult, maybe I have a chance of getting into Dark Souls and not giving up...
 

meiam

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Marik2 said:
Someone guide me where to start with the series. I somewhat played the DS ones, but people say they're not that good and the animations suck.
The DS one, shadow dragon? That was probably one of the worse if not the worse in the franchise, it was a remake of the first one, except they kept all the terrible design of it (which doesn't bode too well for this remake).

The fire emblem, as far as the american market is concern, is essentially split into two half with awakening which significantly changed a lot. If you're hearing about FE nowadays it's because awakening made a lot of change that the market liked and as such it revive the franchise away from it's niche route toward more open market, so that's probably where you want to begin then.

Essentially fire emblem used to be pretty ruthless, you had a set number of missions, this meant limited resource: character (permadeath), experience to level unit, weapon (weapon had a limit use after which they break) and money to buy new equipment and consumable. For the US market that was fire emblem (GBA), path of radiance and radiant dawn, most older game also work on that model, but those were never released here (although full translation are available online and playable by emulator, thracia 776 is particularly notable and considered one of the best if not the best of the older FE). If you want to start there, the GBA one is excellent and path of radiance is pretty good, radiant dawn I though was fairly mediocre.

Sacred stone which was release between GBA FE and path of radiance is somewhat in between the two style, as it feature multiple difficulty (although extremely unbalanced) and the ability to play generic mission for more experience (although at the cost of resource). Then you have the second "era" with awakening and fates, which saw significant relaxation of the rules, permadeath is now something you can disable, you can easily grind additional experience and fates even remove the limitation on weapon usage. Another significant change is the ability to pair up unit so that weaker character can be protected by stronger one. Most future FE are guaranteed to feature most if not all of those changes, so like I said it make most sense to play these since they're the future.

You could see old fire emblem a bit like the dark soul of tactical, it didn't hold the player hand much and it expected you to perform well, but in exchange there was little that felt unfair about it. Because the game usually only had one difficulty setting, they were extremely well balanced (although the balance was made with player who would get the best results in mind, it's very possible to fall behind and end up in a situation where it's impossible to finish the game if you lose too many character or you don't spread the exp all around your character). With the changes came a lot of problem in balance, imo. With three/four difficulties setting and the possibility that the player is playing with or without permadeath, it's quiet simply impossible to properly balance the missions, and so you have huge difficulty spikes and some deeply unfair situation (a large number of enemy appearing out of nowhere and moving/attacking on the turn they show up, i.e. trial and error difficulty). The other changes also significantly strengthen the players, making proper balance far harder, so you end up with normal mode that are far too easy and harder mode being unfairly hard (enemy can kill character in one shoot and so on).
 

Souplex

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Marik2 said:
Someone guide me where to start with the series. I somewhat played the DS ones, but people say they're not that good and the animations suck.
I started with 7 (No subtitle in US) on the GBA, and I feel it's a good place to start.
8 (Sacred Stones) is passable, but not nearly as good as 7.
9 (Path of radiance) was really fucking amazing, and a huge step up.
10 (radiant Dawn) is subtly better than 9, and easily the high-point of the series, but it's a direct continuation of 9 so don't jump straight to it.
 

Souplex

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Meiam said:
If you're hearing about FE nowadays it's because awakening made a lot of change that the market liked and as such it revive the franchise away from it's niche route toward more open market, so that's probably where you want to begin then.
Awakening sold well because it was the first Fire Emblem to have a marketing campaign. (Plus there was nothing else for 3DS at the time)
 

Yoshi178

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Hawki said:
CritialGaming said:
I'm too stupid for these games. They are too hard for me. I'd rather do naked Dark Souls runs.
Not that I've ever played it, but how the heck is Dark Souls less difficult than Fire Emblem?

Still, if it is less difficult, maybe I have a chance of getting into Dark Souls and not giving up...
Dark Souls and Fire Emblem are incomparable. both are totally different games.

Dark Souls is an action RPG type of game
Fire Emblem is a pure tactical strategy role playing type of game
 

Hawki

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Yoshi178 said:
Dark Souls and Fire Emblem are incomparable. both are totally different games.

Dark Souls is an action RPG type of game
Fire Emblem is a pure tactical strategy role playing type of game
I'm well aware of that, I've played Fire Emblem a lot. The point was that I'm skeptical (in a kind of snarky way) of Fire Emblem being more difficult than Dark Souls, which has a reputation for being inpenetrable, whereas Fire Emblem has never sold itself on its difficulty (well, not since FE7 at least), and has made efforts since Awakening to make the franchise more accessible.
 

Yoshi178

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Hawki said:
Yoshi178 said:
Dark Souls and Fire Emblem are incomparable. both are totally different games.

Dark Souls is an action RPG type of game
Fire Emblem is a pure tactical strategy role playing type of game
I'm well aware of that, I've played Fire Emblem a lot. The point was that I'm skeptical (in a kind of snarky way) of Fire Emblem being more difficult than Dark Souls, which has a reputation for being inpenetrable, whereas Fire Emblem has never sold itself on its difficulty (well, not since FE7 at least), and has made efforts since Awakening to make the franchise more accessible.
i haven't played any of the Fire Emblems before Awakening but from what i've heard Path of Radiance on Gamecube and especially Radiant Dawn on the Wii are meant to be really hard.

i've heard that the Wii Fire Emblem is probably one of the hardest fire emblems of them all actually.
 

iwinatlife

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Hawki said:
Yoshi178 said:
Dark Souls and Fire Emblem are incomparable. both are totally different games.

Dark Souls is an action RPG type of game
Fire Emblem is a pure tactical strategy role playing type of game
I'm well aware of that, I've played Fire Emblem a lot. The point was that I'm skeptical (in a kind of snarky way) of Fire Emblem being more difficult than Dark Souls, which has a reputation for being inpenetrable, whereas Fire Emblem has never sold itself on its difficulty (well, not since FE7 at least), and has made efforts since Awakening to make the franchise more accessible.
To a non-Turnbased strategy player any fire emblem pre awkaening would be considered hard I imagine. It is a game that heavily punishes small mistakes and includes permadeath. SO I figure it is seen as hard for the same reason as XCOM which seems apt because they are a similar concept.
 

SmugFrog

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Was there a Fire Emblem game for the SNES? I'm at work and can't access a lot of gaming info sites. I remember renting something like it, and liking it, but I had a friend over who had no interest in the game and I never really got a chance to play it.