Football violence & fan violence in general.

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Wadders

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So today during the FA Cup semi-final at Wembley, London (a very significant event in the footballing calendar, for those not familiar with the game) violence erupted within the stadium among supporters of Millwall FC (one of the teams playing there) with police getting heavily involved. It looked pretty bad - upset women and girls crying in some cases, police going in with batons, and a fair share of bloody noses etc. with plenty of grown men involved.


Check out the amoeba with the Policeman's hat - obviously not aware of the fact football is on TV these days... *sigh*

I'm not sure the exact reasons they were fighting, but it probably started with something minor, then escalated given the quantity of people and booze present.

Now seeing this sort of thing is rare these days in football (in the UK at least), but Millwall fans do have a bad reputation for this kind of behaviour - although even for them fighting among themselves is a poor show.

In fact football violence still goes on to some extent - although on a much smaller scale than its heyday - there is still an element of football fans who persist in giving the rest of us a bad name as mindless animals, thugs, hooligans etc.

So, to get to the point, I was wondering what you all think of this, and if there are any other sports where fan violence exists on a notable scale - I for one am not aware of any. If this is the case, then why football? What do you reckon people get from fighting opposing fans? I'd just like to hear any opinions really, as this kind of 'culture' interests me.
 

Total LOLige

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I imagine that football violence gives them a form of release from the pressures of life,for some it's probably because their dicks, and others it's a way of showing how passionate they are about the club. Football violence seems to be on the rise in a few countries I remember reading something about football fans fighting in Egypt, and Tottenham fans getting attacked twice in Italy. I've noticed that 'ultra' groups are getting pretty popular, apparently lighting flares and smoke bombs at matches is proof that you are the most dedicated fan, ultra-ism can turn into hooliganism fast.
 

tippy2k2

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Certain teams in Baseball and Football (the 'Merica kind) have this kind of reputation as well (Notably the Oakland Raiders and...was it the New York Giants that had a fan almost die due to a fight?).

I've heard that Football used to be a lot worse but an increase of police presence at games have curbed a lot of that behavior.

As to why it happens, it's a mix of booze and extreme frustration. Like a child on the internet, a fan might feel frustrated seeing his team getting it's ass handed to them (and by extension, they have just had their asses handed to them because it's "their" team). Frustrated at their limp manhood and fueled by alcohol, a fan of the opposite team exists and has the audacity to be walking around. That poor opposing fan has just become the symbol of everything that frustrates this fan and the fan lashes out against the symbol.

It's kind of depressing really and I'm glad that the NFL recognized that it can't be tolerated. A LOT more security presence and a stadium-based 911 number (emergency services) have done wonders to curb that kind of behavior.
 

Cabisco

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It still happens outside grounds and some people still go around after matches looking to start fights just like some people do on nights out etc. It's not so much a case of Football being a unruly sport or anything, it's just when something is very popular it tends to attract the kind of people who think this is okay. As a Man City fan I've been to a fair few games and visit a city forum, while not at the ground their tends to end up being violence nearby, or in town later because of the game. It's just bad people really, I've seen a old man be punched to the ground because he told someone to stop throwing unopened beer cans at people. Like I said it's not 'football culture', it's just dickheads exist and Football is a popular game, is badminton was massive it would happen there too.

At least, thats my view on the matter. On the whole England is really good for our lack of violence compared to other countries but like I said with a sport this big it's bound to have some thugs. Millwall does really seem to be a special case though, I guess theirs just a bigger section there who have decided it adopt that 'Millwall fans are brutal' mantra and run with it.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Fan violence exists pretty heavily in baseball. There's tons of riots in the US when certain baseball teams win or lose (either one really gives them a reason to run around flipping cars and burning trashcans). The more notable ones happen in cities that have bars really close to the stadium.

I've never understood the whole mentality but then again, I'm not hugely into sports in general, and I tend to be a pretty calm and relaxed person as a whole. Anyway, if I lived near a baseball stadium I'd make damned sure to stand next to my car with a shotgun any time a major game ended just in case some jackasses decided it would be fun to flip my car over in protest of their team losing.
 

Korolev

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My impression is that a lot of the fans participate in violence because they like violence. Sports attracts a lot of males with aggression issues, and these people like to fight and get into gangs and feel really "tough" by beating up each other and other spectators.

Fan violence occasionally breaks out during soccer matches in Australia - particularly between Serbians and Croatians (not too many people from Kosovo here, but they get into the mix as well). At the local event level, sometimes the Indigenous and Pacific Islander fans come to blows, but that's not really sports related and more related to other issues.
 

prophecy2514

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Part of the established culture of the particular sport unfortunately. Here in Australia during AFL games there's the odd boozy and lately racist fan but incidents are isolated and few and far between. The relatively new soccer competition the A-league, have already had riots and unruly behaviour resulting in stadium damage at a couple of games this season. It's sad to see that hooliganism is a part of soccer culture so soon in Australia
 

distortedreality

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prophecy2514 said:
The relatively new soccer competition the A-league, have already had riots and unruly behaviour resulting in stadium damage at a couple of games this season. It's sad to see that hooliganism is a part of soccer culture so soon in Australia
That's slightly misinformed.

I've been to countless A-League games, and have seen nothing of the like. If you'd been to an NSL games in the 90's, THEN you would see hooliganism at it's worst.

The worst you'll see at an A-League game these days is a couple of flares. 99% of the crowds are well behaved and respectful towards each other, even in derby games. I've honestly never been do an AFL game, but NRL (rugby league) and AFL fans seem to be way more vitriolic and offensive than anything i've seen in the 7 or so years of the A-League.

If you look at the following video, these guys are the best set of fans of any code in Australian sport, and exactly what sport should be about. 10,000 traveling hours up the coast for an away game, well-behaved, enthusiastic, brilliant.


Going back to the FA Cup violence, ugly scenes to be sure. Not quite sure what sparked it, but it's something the English FA have tried to stamp out unsuccessfully. The reality is though that is you get any large number of people and add alcohol to the mix, you're going to have problems of one form or another.
 

Genocidicles

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It's Millwall. Football is just an excuse to be violent for the fans. I mean they weaponized goddamn newspapers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_brick

Millwall fan here btw. Just go in expecting every match of to devolve into violence and you wont have a problem.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Clearly all sports should be banned, as they encourage people to be violent, just like dem vidyagaems!

Sarcasm aside, it's always annoyed me how it's never seen as an issue such as "Do sports make people violent?" like video games get when someone gets violent over that it becomes a huge thing. That said, I'm not all that into sport.
 

Xan Krieger

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I think it's great, it adds entertainment to an otherwise boring event. Same reason I was happy to see that batter rush the mound here in America and just beat the crap out of him. Violence makes dull sports fun.
 

distortedreality

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Xan Krieger said:
I think it's great, it adds entertainment to an otherwise boring event. Same reason I was happy to see that batter rush the mound here in America and just beat the crap out of him. Violence makes dull sports fun.
I must say, i've always enjoyed a good baseball melee.

Sort of like the people that watch Nascar. You can't tell me they actually enjoy watching cars drive round in ovals for an entire day. They're obviously there to see the crashes.
 

MeChaNiZ3D

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In my opinion, and I see there are others who think similarly, they're like the people in riot gear who showed up at Occupy protests. Some people will just take any excuse.
 

EstrogenicMuscle

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I don't understand why people care so much about something so pointless.

I don't pay attention to much sports so I doubt my point is moot. But it seems a bit like someone punching someone in the face about

"You don't like Japanese RPGs so I'm going to cut you!"
"How dare you say that Sephiroth is better than Kefka! I'm going to bloody your face!"
"Digimon is better than Pokemon you'd better come at me bro."
Said nobody ever.
 

Lionsfan

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kiri2tsubasa said:
So, pretty much every week for either the Detroit Lions, Oakland Raiders, or Minnesota Vikings.
Not sure if serious.....

Oakland sure, but I'm laughing at the inclusion of Detroit and Minnesota on there
 

bananafishtoday

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It's violent in the UK because it's a sport people there really, really care about. Soccer-football fan violence is pretty much unheard of in the US because relatively few people care about the sport, but there's plenty of fan violence over baseball and handegg-football.

EstrogenicMuscle said:
I don't understand why people care so much about something so pointless.

I don't pay attention to much sports so I doubt my point is moot. But it seems a bit like someone punching someone in the face about

"You don't like Japanese RPGs so I'm going to cut you!"
"How dare you say that Sephiroth is better than Kefka! I'm going to bloody your face!"
"Digimon is better than Pokemon you'd better come at me bro."
Said nobody ever.
It's essentially a modern form of tribalism. You get to put on a jersey and watch a game, and everyone cheering for the same team is "on your side," while everyone cheering for the other team is "the enemy." It gets cranked up to 11 for the World Cup, when nationalism comes into the picture. (I've read a few people posit that the World Cup is a release valve for the kinda insane nationalism that led to massive initial public support for WWI.)

Plus the drama of games/seasons allows fans to construct compelling narrative arcs based on them.

Plus alcohol.
 

distortedreality

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bananafishtoday said:
It's violent in the UK because it's a sport people there really, really care about.
I don't think it's as simple as that.

Sports fans around the world, regardless of the sport, care about the sport, otherwise they wouldn't be fans, but we don't see this sort of behavior world-wide on a constant basis. England has long been a source of hooliganism in the world game. In the recent past it's died down somewhat, but the scenes shown in the OP (and the scenes after the Newcastle-Sunderland game last night) are a return to the bad old days, where it could be really unsafe to take your children to games.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other parts of the world and other sports, but really caring about a sport doesn't seem to be the main reason for it.
 

FalloutJack

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Here in Pittsburgh, we have a peculiar pattern about the place.

If we lose a game, there could be shouting and carrying on, destruction of property, and maybe an explosion.

And if we win, there could be shouting and carrying on, destruction of property, and maybe an explosion.

I've often wondered about this contradiction, but I think it may be summed up in Pittsburghers being crazy people.
 

Wadders

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distortedreality said:
bananafishtoday said:
It's violent in the UK because it's a sport people there really, really care about.
I don't think it's as simple as that.

Sports fans around the world, regardless of the sport, care about the sport, otherwise they wouldn't be fans, but we don't see this sort of behavior world-wide on a constant basis. England has long been a source of hooliganism in the world game. In the recent past it's died down somewhat, but the scenes shown in the OP (and the scenes after the Newcastle-Sunderland game last night) are a return to the bad old days, where it could be really unsafe to take your children to games.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen in other parts of the world and other sports, but really caring about a sport doesn't seem to be the main reason for it.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at.

Admittedly it's not just England, Italy and Eastern Europe have a bad reputation too. Take Rugby for instance (both international and domestic) the fans obviously care, but you very rarely hear of violence on the scale that football fans sometimes perpetrate.

I suppose it could be put down to any number of things; working class 'frustration' - although football is no way near as working class as it was when it rose to prominence in the late 1800s. Maybe the inner city/town location of Football grounds making it hard for fans to be kept separate? I suppose it's also down to numbers. It's the most popular sport in the country, probably in the world. More supporters = more chance of some of those supporters being idiots.

EstrogenicMuscle said:
I don't understand why people care so much about something so pointless.

I don't pay attention to much sports so I doubt my point is moot. But it seems a bit like someone punching someone in the face about

"You don't like Japanese RPGs so I'm going to cut you!"
"How dare you say that Sephiroth is better than Kefka! I'm going to bloody your face!"
"Digimon is better than Pokemon you'd better come at me bro."
Said nobody ever.
Well not really. A lot more rides on a sports game for some people, that it does for people arguing about characters in videogames.

Football fans will (usually) support a local team, so their local pride is at stake. Furthermore, they invest a lot of money (in the form of tickets, travel costs) and time (travelling, watching the games sometimes twice a week) in their team, and as such have a pretty big stake in their team, and consequently will support it to the hilt, as being a casual fan is tricky to justify when you spend all that money and time. A lot of them will have done this for years and years, ever since they were a kid old enough to go to a game. They have pretty good reasons to be passionate about their chosen sport. Passion is fine, but it can all too easily spill over to violence.