Future of Crusader Kings 2

[Sonmi]

So, this morning Paradox unveiled a pretty massive surprise about the upcoming unannounced DLC, that surprise being...

Motherfucking Tibet.

Tibet being added to the game marks the biggest map extension since the addition of India back in the Rajas of India days, a very divisive addition considering the impact it had on the game's performance for many, as well as it being deemed "unfit for the game" due to the game's early Europe - Middle East focus. India was the first step towards representing the entirety of the Old World, and with Tibet being added to the game, Paradox is getting closer and closer to the mother of all controversial topics within the CK2 community: China. Now, Tibet can barely be represented without China, as their history is pretty much tied with that of their giant neighbour, so the question arises: Will China be added in this upcoming supposedly massive DLC? Will Tibet get events similar to Anxi's in order to represent its proximity with China without actually adding it to the game? Will this be the final DLC, or will there be several other DLCs released as long as the fans buy them?

Any discussion is welcome.

For more info on Tibet, today's developer's diary: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...2-dev-diary-51-the-roof-of-the-world.1021920/

 

[Pseudonym]

I'm not sure just adding more area to the map changes the game significantly. As the game stands, if I play in western europe I won't ever do anything with India. By the time I'm big enough to care about india I've stopped playing because I've become too op. I suppose it is interesting to play in or around Tibet to see how that works.

 

[Sonmi]

I'm not sure just adding more area to the map changes the game significantly. As the game stands, if I play in western europe I won't ever do anything with India. By the time I'm big enough to care about india I've stopped playing because I've become too op. I suppose it is interesting to play in or around Tibet to see how that works.

The addition of Tibet and removal of Dharmic holy orders from Day 1 just made India worth playing to be honest.

Now it won't be completely isolated and completely protected against invaders, hell, being connected at Nepal means the Mongols now will be able to waltz into India from time to time.

 

[DoPo]

I think having China is quite logical. I've seen lots of people express interest in it, too, so it does make it a likely candidate.

I will be really interested in seeing how they handle China in the game. A previous dev diary mentioned that they would be changing the Cassi Belli, so I wonder if they would also do something about governments in order to have a different representation of China.

Will this be the final DLC, or will there be several other DLCs released as long as the fans buy them?

As far as I'm aware there is one or two major DLC planned. I remember the figure two but I don't know whether that was before Monks and Mystics or after. At any rate, I suspect there won't be a lot more big expansions, but they could definitely have smaller ones.

 

[Terminal Blue]

China is not being added to the map. This has been stated and confirmed several times, as on several levels it simply doesn't work. However, it will apparently be represented in some form (probably a pope-style landless title to which you can become a tributary for benefits, but we'll have to wait and see for subsequent weeks).

I think it's important that the Western edge of the map doesn't just feel like a big wall at the edge of the world (and to cut down on corner-camping in Khotan, which is kind of a broken strategy right now). But it's not necessary to add China to make that happen.

Also, in terms of adding provinces to the map it's not as big a map expansion as the horse lords one, which was completely fine. A lot of optimization and performance bugfixing has been done since Rajahs (for example, there was a huge problem where Greek characters would constantly check to see if they could castrate everyone in the world, resulting in massive slowdowns if the Byzantine Empire expanded).

I must admit to being a bit disappointed West Africa is not being expanded and built on, though. It's by far the least fleshed out region of the game relative to its actual significance.

 

[Catnip1024]

China would have been an interesting one to do, but probably far too complex for a single expansion, especially when you have to build it into however many different starting settings.

Although, saying that, my assumption was always that they were going to do China, so that is a surprise to me. I suppose one issue is that it would potentially result in a Mongol overload.

I suppose a logical move for their final remaining DLC would be to move down into the African sub-Sahara a bit more.

 

[Recusant]

Adding Tibet is rather a bold move; I didn't think Paradox was that brave.

 

[Bedinsis]

Tibet? With that I hope they implement polyandry, since the Himalayas was apparently one of the regions that that occurred in.

Regarding the future: I'm a bit uncertain where they can go without changing the core of the game. ...wait, let me rephrase that. I'm a bit uncertain if there are any place left they can go that would be something exciting to me without changing the core of the game. Crusader Kings II has a working core and any expansion is quite literal in that it expands, i.e. adds features and mechanics to the already existing core. The thing that I most would like to see isn't the adding of more stuff but the revamping of the core in a way that makes more sense now that the game has gotten quite a few expansions. However I suspect this would be too costly and risky if they must make sure that the game is playable for everyone, no matter what expansions they have.

...now that I've thought about it, there actually are a few features/possible expansions that I'd like to see implemented:

* Rise of a Prophet: expand the timeline backwards, and you get to play the prophet Muhammed when founding Islam. This could also introduce the possibility of in-game modding of religions, since I imagine that at his death the player would get to choose how the will of god is to be implemented in this new religion. I suspect Paradox won't go there, since that would be a fictional depiction of the prophet Muhammed.

* Let us play landless characters. The game started out as a strategy game with a character focus, and letting a landless character represent a failure state then would make sense, but the game has expanded since then. I would like to see what the landless characters actually was able to do, and it could provide some more information of what life was like for them. Neither this I suspect would happen, since it is changing the core, it would probably make the game more demanding of the computer and it doesn't really sound that exciting, unless they implement a landless system that sounds very exciting.

* Randomized character inheritor. In the game you know who your heir is, and you can influence who this will be, so odds are that you try to concentrate the power on the child you will get to play as; what I'd like to see is some system that the player honestly doesn't know what child they will be playing as next, thereby making gavelkind more desirable. But knowing the player base, they'll probably implement the tactic of "murder wife after first child".

* Some mode where it doesn't matter if your heir is of another dynasty. The game treats this as a failure state, but if you're more into a "let's roleplay with disregard for the consequences" mood, having a mode where the name of the dynasty your child is in doesn't matter would help with that. I also believe it would be more accurate to the time period, since dynasties replaced each others on the thrones.

* A playable papacy.

 

[DoPo]

China is not being added to the map. This has been stated and confirmed several times, as on several levels it simply doesn't work.

Aww, there goes my hope then.

I must admit to being a bit disappointed West Africa is not being expanded and built on, though. It's by far the least fleshed out region of the game relative to its actual significance.

I agree - West Africa is definitely lackluster. I would totally love for there to be more to it.

* Some mode where it doesn't matter if your heir is of another dynasty. The game treats this as a failure state, but if you're more into a "let's roleplay with disregard for the consequences" mood, having a mode where the name of the dynasty your child is in doesn't matter would help with that. I also believe it would be more accurate to the time period, since dynasties replaced each others on the thrones.

* A playable papacy.

I've been thinking about these for a while and I believe they are related. If you could do a non-dynasty inheritance, then that opens up the possibility of a playable papacy, as well as holy orders and mercenaries. You can have a personal holding, similar to merchant republics and you would have very little control over your successor. It can work and you could have the option to take a realm for your own.

 

[Bedinsis]

* Some mode where it doesn't matter if your heir is of another dynasty. The game treats this as a failure state, but if you're more into a "let's roleplay with disregard for the consequences" mood, having a mode where the name of the dynasty your child is in doesn't matter would help with that. I also believe it would be more accurate to the time period, since dynasties replaced each others on the thrones.

* A playable papacy.

I've been thinking about these for a while and I believe they are related. If you could do a non-dynasty inheritance, then that opens up the possibility of a playable papacy, as well as holy orders and mercenaries. You can have a personal holding, similar to merchant republics and you would have very little control over your successor. It can work and you could have the option to take a realm for your own.

They're only related as much as I wrote both of them. My intention with the former was the mode to be "your child/grandchild/sibling inherits, no matter if they've gotten a new family name, so Player: focus not on the family name, focus on your family". Your intention seems to be more "to let this aspect of the game be playable we must lose a bit of the core, which in this case corresponds to allowing non dynasty inheritance". It is by no means a bad idea(in fact, playing as mercenaries sounds like something I could add to the list above) but it was not my intention.

 

[DoPo]

They're only related as much as I wrote both of them. My intention with the former was the mode to be "your child/grandchild/sibling inherits, no matter if they've gotten a new family name, so Player: focus not on the family name, focus on your family".

Ah, I see. I'm sorry I misunderstood. Yes, I do think that would be cool. It would be interesting to try and start off as a minor family, even a custom one, and try to join up some grand dynasty. Or vice versa - start as a big dynasty and see where you end up. Lots of potential, really - I like it.

 

[pookie101]

im greedy i want the whole planet