#GamerGate Needs Damage Control Badly (Small OP Update)

[Fappy]

I educated myself today on what exactly has been going down and ended up with more questions than answers. Don't get me wrong, I understand the facts of the situation. I understand who said and did what (many of whom are ancillary at best and blatantly irrelevant at worst), and I understand what the point of #GamerGate is. I get it, people want a more accountable gaming press as well as a more ethical and fair Indy development scene.

But what the fuck is all this unrelated bullshit doing here? Why have the lines been drawn between so-called 'SJWs' and 'misogynerd' (or whatever the fuck they're called)? Why is feminism a factor at all? Oh wait, I see, many of the 'misogynerds' are saying that the Indy/Gaming Press Illuminati is using feminism/misogyny as a smokescreen to censor debate. Well if that's the case, then why the fuck are women, some of which have NO connection to any of this (like Anita), getting bombarded with harassment in the form of death and rape threats in relation to this?

You really wonder why people aren't giving #GamerGate the time of day? Really? It doesn't compute? STOP GIVING THEM AMMO! Teach the idiots within your ranks to keep their goddamn mouths shut. Whether you agree with their insane ravings or not, they are associated with your movement and their actions do reflect on your message. The only thing holding me back from supporting this movement is the simple fact that it is so over-saturated with immature, volatile and outright hateful people that I can't bring myself to support it. I cringe every time I see one of your ilk cry "Social Justice Warrior" and that Vivian James (or whatever) mascot is just a sad attempt at the "but I have black friends" defense.

Don't get me wrong, I won't for a second sit here and tell you that I give a damn about any Indy developers and publications getting thrown under the bus if they deserve it. If they are guilty of the crimes they've been accused of, then of course they deserve to be brought down for it; but you know, in an ethical, mature and humane way. Any prying into their personal lives or threats against them are obviously crossing the line, but that should go without saying.

If you want a more accountable gaming press, you're going to have to prove that you deserve it. Some of the more visible names on the #GamerGate side of the fence are clearly concerned about what truly matters, but many more seemingly are not.

Please, tell me if I am off-base, because from where I stand I think I am actually being more fair to #GamerGate than it deserves. As someone who studied journalism, I have always been critical of the gaming press' integrity, so I am naturally inclined to throw in my support; but this case is not so simple. I will not associate myself with a movement that is harassing and threatening people nor one that sees fit to blame everything on feminism of all things.

Define your message and cease this childish 'SJW' finger pointing. Look to the men that inspired the movement's namesake: Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, and follow their example. They were professionals who acted with discretion, and if your movement wants to be taken seriously so do you.

/flameshieldactivated

SMALL UPDATE: At least something good came out of all this - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12223-The-Escapist-Publisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate

In the end, I think most of us really wanted the same thing.

 

[shrekfan246]

I still find it hilarious that I was accused of "white knighting" because I asked somebody to prove their claim that Zoe Quinn got positive press from Nathan Grayson.

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

And I mean, I even said days ago in that massive Quinnthread that people looking in on this whole event from the outside, they're only going to see the anger and rage and harassment and name-calling and character assassination (we're talking borderline libelous comments here), and they're going to think everyone "opposing" the journalists are just crazy. Ignoring the legitimate harm people are causing under the banner of your movement does nothing to help your cause, and remaining complacent because "they don't represent us" isn't going to change the perception that the public gets. Especially once you start celebrating the fact that you've pushed people to quitting their jobs.

At best, it sends a mixed message of what "GamerGate" is really about. At worst, it simply confirms in the eyes of the public what all of those negative editorials everybody is so angry at were saying about "gamers" in the first place. It seems to be human nature to focus on or at least notice far more negative than positive, and unfortunately this entire event has netted just as much negative press for the gaming community as it has certain indie developers or games journalists.

 

[lacktheknack]

<spoiler=Redacted>

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

WHAT?

Fuck this movement.

Fuck everything Gamergate protestors want.

Fuck their precious accountability and unbiased reporting, they ought to have nothing but what they've sown dropped back down on them like a cavalcade of anvils.

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

 

[Bravo Company]

I'm not sure why any of this shit that has been appearing even matters. I know plenty of female gamers that give no shits about anything that has been being brought up (granted, I've spent a whole 5 minutes reading about this stuff). I'm not sure where gaming journalism has been corrupted. I come to the escapist to see Zero Punctuation, see how Movie Bob feels about the movie he has reviewed, and look at cool science related articles. I just don't understand what exactly seems to be "boiling to the surface" so to speak.


I've spent the majority of all this "Quinnspiracy" in the backseat, but apparently its not going away soon /sadface

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

I'm just surprised a cat bothered to do the research!

I've looked more into it lately myself and the sheer amount of people who are using GamerGate as a platform for unrelated crusades is what is leaving a lot of people confused by the large amount of angry internet yelling. Like a lot of controversies that explode, this one started with sexual affairs and has since been expanded into either a vast conspiracy to promote or destroy social justice. The only thing that really upsets me is just how many people are leaving this industry who weren't even standing near the ground zero that is Zoe Quinn.

The corruption of games reporting that I don't read/care about isn't destroying gaming for me.

I'm going to take the selfish option and take care of my own problems offline instead of picking a side or whatever the hell else people expect of me, a person who plays video games, to do.

Oh and Fappy, I hear the fat tom across the street is talking shit about you again. Just thought you'd want to know.

 

[Vault101]

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
.

oh hey! I got one too!

I find it hilarious the genius behind that thought I gave enough of a crap about this whole clusterfuck to "support" any one "side"

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

the thing is all I did was have opinions....like...feminist leaning opinions (that Ive always had) which apparently made me a "supporter" of zoe quin

if that's not paranoia I don't know what is

 

[lacktheknack]

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
.

oh hey! I got one too!

I find it hilarious the genius behind that thought I gave enough of a crap about this whole clusterfuck to "support" any one "side"

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

the thing is all I did was have opinions....like...feminist leaning opinions (that Ive always had) which apparently made me a "supporter" of zoe quin

if that's not paranoia I don't know what is

Got a name of the psycho who did that? So I can plant them firmly on my ignore list (and possibly my death note)?

 

[Vault101]

Got a name of the psycho who did that? So I can plant them firmly on my ignore list (and possibly my death note)?

like I said, probably not worth the effort

another funny thing is I never even engaged in the debate...

 

[shrekfan246]

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

WHAT?

Yeah, I'd link the screengrab I took, but I already reported it and evidence suggests that plenty of other people received similar messages. Don't think I really need to muddy things up any more by plopping that directly onto the forums (I'm not sure I'm technically allowed to in the first place).

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.
.

oh hey! I got one too!

I find it hilarious the genius behind that thought I gave enough of a crap about this whole clusterfuck to "support" any one "side"

Yep.

I think I've tried pretty hard to maintain my position of "question all of the evidence from either direction" since day one, but I'm still getting moved off into the "SJW" camp apparently, because I'm too skeptical of the stuff that the GamerGate people are doing.

I mean, since that puts me in the same group as Jim Sterling, I can't really be too upset about it.

EDIT: Admittedly, it may seem as if I'm "against" the GamerGate thing, because most of my posts on the topic have been questioning people who are pro-GamerGate. But the reason for that is because a high number of the people who were actively posting about it on this forum are only pro-GamerGate.

 

[briankoontz]

If the GamerGate people are rational and this is all about journalistic ethics, then where were all the forum posts ABOUT journalistic ethics prior to Zoe Quinn's sex scandal? I know of a few, but it seems like most of the people talking about journalistic ethics prior to the scandal were the very progressives and "SJWs" who are supposedly corrupt.

I fully agree with people that this is a smokescreen for the unhappiness that conservative gamers feel about progressive gamers and critics.

Just because progressive and conservative gamers won't ever see eye-to-eye on what gaming should be doesn't mean we can't share the same forum and debate each other. There's no need for demonization.

 

[Racecarlock]

This whole scandal is simply a combination of "HOW COULD YOU GIVE LAST OF US 8 OUT OF 10 OH MY GOD!" and "Anita Sarkeesian wants good representation of females in games, kill her! Also some of her points are kind of maybe not so good, so we should threaten to rape her. That'll solve everything!".

This is also not the first time zoe quinn was harassed either. She also got harassed when she first put her game up on steam.

Journalistic integrity? We don't deserve it. We seriously don't deserve it right now. I mean, really, if the gamergate people win, they'll just be back to "OMG 9/10 FOR GTA V I'LL KILL YOU AND GET YOU FIRED!" within probably 10 minutes of winning.

And you people seriously fuckin' wonder why "Gaming Journalism" has gotten sick and tired of us? I mean, how hard do you have to be covering your eyes and ears not to see this? Even here on the escapist I often see a post pop up about some aggregate top ten list from a website, and the following comments are always "Why didn't (Game I like) get number 1?". There aren't any threats, thankfully, but still.

We don't deserve shit. I mean, I'll be the first to call someone's bullshit when they say it's entitlement to not want your game to be a buggy pile of shit on release day, but this is pure entitlement. You don't deserve shit. People are only reviewing games because they're nice enough to want to save you money or make sure it goes towards a good game or two. But you aren't owed that. You aren't owned jack shit. They're only doing it because they like games and for some mysterious reason, like you too. The press is just now jumping on the "Kill the gamer identity" bandwagon because you have been bitching about scores along with any accusations of troubling racist or sexist things in games for so long that they have gotten sick of it.

But the thing that pisses me off more than anything else is how some of us are acting like we're an oppressed minority. Wake the fucking hell up. The only reason you think that is because some other guys pissed off the press and they used the word gamer and now you're acting all hurt and distraught because some dude wrote some bad things about "gamers" on the internet and you identify as one. And you seemingly can't say to yourself "They're not talking about me". Even people who didn't want to be dragged into this fight are now being forced because you got your feelings hurt. And then the ULTIMATE irony is that you then complain about "Social Justice Warriors" doing the same thing. I don't like radical feminists, but the people objecting to this scandal aren't radical. And the ones that are definitely aren't the norm. Which doesn't seem to be the case for the gamer side where everybody is howling about oppression and censorship and free speech as if jack booted feminists and "Social Justice Warriors" are locking us up in prisons or some shit.

Grow up and stop being professional victims.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

Snoopy

But don't you understand? It's okay because that's standard operating procedure on the net. /sarcasm.

This debacle has reminded me of just how inert the internet is. Why is there such a widespread revulsion to the idea of basic common decency? I have an anonymous identity (lovely oxymoron) and yet I don't find myself engaging in personal witch hunts against anyone and everyone who disagrees with me. What mystifies me is the defence that comes from people who I doubt engage in that behaviour either. It's just such a defeatist attitude.

 

[Neverhoodian]

And how exactly are they supposed to control these idiots? If the internet has taught me anything, it's that there will ALWAYS be lunatic fringe assholes who spew their bile no matter what. It's one of the consequences of instant and unfettered communication, and there really isn't anything anyone can do about it besides try to ignore it as best they can.

Also, there's plenty of blame to go around for both sides here. A number of people opposed to #Gamergate haven't exactly been saints, likening the opposition to misogynists, basement-dwelling neckbeards, ISIS and pedophiles, to name a few.

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

WHAT?

Fuck this movement.

Fuck everything Gamergate protestors want.

Fuck their precious accountability and unbiased reporting, they ought to have nothing but what they've sown dropped back down on them like a cavalcade of anvils.

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

You know, if you REALLY want to prove a point, don't give in to hatred and belligerance. Don't stoop to their level whether you agree with them or not, as it only muddies the waters even further. "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" and all that.

If the GamerGate people are rational and this is all about journalistic ethics, then where were all the forum posts ABOUT journalistic ethics prior to Zoe Quinn's sex scandal? I know of a few, but it seems like most of the people talking about journalistic ethics prior to the scandal were the very progressives and "SJWs" who are supposedly corrupt.

I fully agree with people that this is a smokescreen for the unhappiness that conservative gamers feel about progressive gamers and critics.

Just because progressive and conservative gamers won't ever see eye-to-eye on what gaming should be doesn't mean we can't share the same forum and debate each other. There's no need for demonization.

I can't speak for other people, but I for one have been openly critical of how websites like this one write their news articles like sensationalist op ed pieces (though it looks like things are making a turn for the better with Archon changing the guidelines and this excellent article on 4Chan and Zoe Quinn [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137293-Exclusive-Zoe-Quinn-Posts-Chat-Logs-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond]). To be honest, I'm not sure if gaming journalism ever had any integrity in the first place. Anybody who used to subscribe to magazines like Nintendo Power would probably say the same.[footnote]For the record, Nintendo Power was still fun to read. It was blatant corporate propaganda, but it was fun nonetheless.[/footnote] No, I'd say this was the straw that broke the camel's back, the culmination of years (if not decades) of frustrations brought to a boil. And this is coming from a fire-breathing moderate here.

 

[Vault101]

This debacle has reminded me of just how inert the internet is. Why is there such a widespread revulsion to the idea of basic common decency? I have an anonymous identity (lovely oxymoron) and yet I don't find myself engaging in personal witch hunts against anyone and everyone who disagrees with me. What mystifies me is the defence that comes from people who I doubt engage in that behaviour either. It's just such a defeatist attitude.

I think that common truthism that Normal people act like shitheads on the internet is false

oh of coarse people act differently IRL than they might online...common decency demands it, but whatever people choose to put out there is still a reflection on them and not something to be hand waved "because internet" even if it is not present IRL

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

I think that common truthism that Normal people act like shitheads on the internet is false

oh of coarse people act differently IRL than they might online...common decency demands it, but whatever people choose to put out there is still a reflection on them and not something to be hand waved "because internet" even if it is not present IRL

Now that you mention it, it does seem awfully similar to the argument that misogynists make to defend their actions. You know, all men catcall or will stare at a woman's breasts or all think about raping someone in a tight dress.

The answer is an obvious; "No, they don't." In fact, it sounds like misandry, doesn't it?

One should note the argument says nothing positive about the ones arguing it.

 

[Zhukov]

To be fair, they do try to rein in the dipshits.

They know that their whole GamerGate thing smells like armpits and neck hair. They're constantly telling each other to not be misogynistic ("Okay guys, that's good, but we still need about 15% less sexism, okay?"). They've got the whole TFYC look-we're-not-horrible-people-no-really things going on (and they keep wondering why the people they're accusing of being rotten and corrupt aren't in any hurry to cover it.)

This thing got so big because it combined the anti-feminists, the anti-SJWs and the people who see corruption everywhere because they're favourite game didn't get perfect review scores. Add the widespread deletion of discussion threads for the conspiracy fodder and boom. With people like that on your side, you're going to accumulate a lot of scum around the edges. In fact, you'll be fighting to keep the scum from outnumbering the non-scum.

However, at this point it's degenerated into yet another social media slap-fight. A little hurricane of hashtags.

I'll admit that it irritated the shit out of me to begin with. I mean, for some reason I had thought the Escapist forums were better than that. But now I'm pretty much over it. Social media skirmishes are an everyday occurrence, I just with this one wasn't happening in my favourite internet haunt.

 

[DC_78]

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

WHAT?

Fuck this movement.

Fuck everything Gamergate protestors want.

Fuck their precious accountability and unbiased reporting, they ought to have nothing but what they've sown dropped back down on them like a cavalcade of anvils.

If they can't control their psychos, then they DESERVE them. And they deserve nothing more than my utter hate and belligerence.

I am sorry that some idiot decided to do this insulting PM.

That said I am still confused how anyone can control the trolls on the internet? I have seen this said from alot of folks, hell there are dueling petitions out there to stop the harassment, and honestly how do the nice people wrangle the assholes in? We have no power to ban them or stop them from using #gamergate and I doubt some psychotic person is going to be scolded or reasoned with into stopping.

I see no difference in this and any group trying to control their extremists. It can be human nature to simply paint these folks as a model of the group as a whole but that is wrong.

 

[Ryotknife]

what the hell is gamergate? The Zoey thread is too huge for me to jump in. The only part i read was the stickied part which was suppose to give an unbiased viewpoint of what was happening. All i got from that is that Zoe is a real life Katherine Steiner-Davion.

 

[Queen Michael]

There were also a lovely bunch of PMs sent out to people who, presumably, weren't explicitly on the "side" of GamerGate calling us all "subhumans" this morning.

I didn't get one, even though I am a subhuman. I eat subs, and I'm human. QED.