Gamers shouting so loud they get their way, is it a good thing?

[tardcast]

Gamers shouting so loud they get their way, is it a good thing?

The example that brought about this weeks discussion can be found here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102303-Sucker-Punch-Kills-InFamous-2s-New-Cole
In short the PS3 exclusive, Infamous 2, main character looked fairly different from in the first game. The fans, or some of them at least cried foul and the developer listened and has promised to change the design accordingly.

Now the above sounds great right? The fans getting the devs to change the game to how they want it to be. But here in lies the problem:
-Was it a majority vote from gamers?
-Was it just the fact that a small vocal group got it changed?
-Ultimately was this design re-change best for the game?
-Do gamers really know better than the Devs?
-Will the majority of gamers, your average joes the people who likely never had a say in the matter as they potentially dont read gaming sites be unkowingly adversely effected?

Gamers ***** about the games they love ALL the time. Should Devs really listen? And if so to what degree?

Discuss!

 

[Estocavio]

Heres what i think: They pointed out that the new design made him look too much younger, so they outcried. Unlike alot of outcries, the developers agreed and took it as an initiative and excuse to change it completely, and sound good at the same time. Devs should listen, but LISTEN being the operative word. Things rarely ever should be altered unless its something like this that wont actually change anything.

And as for whether the design will benefit the game, try to think of it this way: Replace every character in video game history with a smoothskinned underaged looking person, then you tell me.


On the flipside, its the Devs decision, and its only a bit of concept art.

 

[SonicWaffle]

People who ***** loudest and longest get what they want. Way of the world. I've heard people complain about games that won't be out for years to come, and they are already making pronouncements about how awesome it will be/how much it will suck.

The fact of the matter is, if developers don't listen and fuck up, we blame them for not listening to us. If they do listen, and the vocal minority convinces them to fuck it up, we still blame them for listening to the wrong people. Lose/lose scenario.

 

[TheComedown]

Piss off your fans, Piss away sales.

But most of the time Devs do know best, but no one is perfect, just look at some of the brilliant ideas that made it into mw2 that seem to piss almost everyone off.

 

[tardcast]

A great example of gamers shouting out and Devs listening is EVE. Community reps are elected from and by the playerbase and flown out to represent the gamers, and what they feel should change etc.

 

[K9unittp]

Christ, just look at what happened to gears of war. The hammerburst is now fucking useless, the concusive effect on the smoke grenade is gone and the boomshot only kills if it hits the person directly. IT'S A FUCKING EXPLOSIVE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! With the smokes now nothing more than a warning for when someone is sneaking up behind you, anyone who picks up a meat shield becomes next to invincible.

 

[rees263]

Do gamers really know better than the Devs?

I feel this is the only question I can really answer. As far as making games that people will like, of course the gamers know better. That's why companies bother with focus groups and customer feedback. You have to listen to your audience.

I'm not saying that the gamers could make better games, but they sure as hell know what they want.

The problem comes down to your other point:

-Was it a majority vote from gamers?
-Was it just the fact that a small vocal group got it changed?
-Will the majority of gamers, your average joes the people who likely never had a say in the matter as they potentially dont read gaming sites be unkowingly adversely effected?

Gamers ***** about the games they love ALL the time. Should Devs really listen? And if so to what degree?

Discuss!

Of course it wasn't the majority of gamers who were crying to Sucker Punch, but the important question is whether they represent the majority of gamers or not, which is pretty much impossible to tell.

I can't really see a change in aesthetic making much impact in the grander scheme of things. I mean of all things I look for in a game the look of the protagonist comes pretty low down the list, especially since you will probably be looking at the back of their head for most of the game, if you even see them at all.

Should devs listen? It can't hurt to listen even if you don't act on it. In this case it was probably easier to shut up the whingers - like I said, everyone else probably doesn't care much on the issue so it doesn't matter.

 

[Nincompoop]

These kinds of questions should be asked in "Question of the Day". I never answer those questions because they are trite and often f**king stupidly set up (what with which choices and stuff).

Excellent question, but I don't have an opinion =P. Bye.

 

[Meggiepants]

I don't really know all that much about the problems with the design of Cole in Infamous 2, mostly since I didn't really take to Infamous all that well, so I kind of ignored it.

But Bioware is one of those companies that claims they listen to fan feedback and makes changes accordingly.

This has caused them a problem of late. The current plans for Dragon Age 2 were announced a few weeks ago, and fans cried foul that their game would more resemble Mass Effect than Dragon Age. Bioware clearly isn't interested in changing DA:2, as their response indicated that they had no interest in changing the game and that fans should just wait and see before they pass judgement. They also seem perplexed as to why everyone is complaining about their game with such scant information.

The problem is, they are a company that prides itself on responding to the fans, so the fans tend to complain all the more when something presents itself that they don't like. So now, if the team behind Dragon Age wants to go in a new direction, they find themselves under pressure from the fans who want these things to stay the same, even if the developers have found that the new gameplay is more natural and enjoyable to play, fans of the original want them to stay the course and grind out a completely derivative and respectable sequel, rather than risking innovation resulting in a flop.

I think relying on majority rule discourages innovation. The majority of people aren't going to be thinking like artists or developers. Allowing them to decide how you design things means all games will end up being more similar, and we will get predictable games, that may seem enjoyable in the short run, but in the long run, in contrast with the industry, will be repetitive and dull.

The people who design games often take chances on things. Sometimes it works and you get fantastic games like Okami or Shadow of the Colossus. But without the ability to try something daring because the majority of people can't really conceive of how something will work, all you'll get is games that the majority can imagine, and they will base that imagination on what they have already been exposed to.

 

[tharglet]

I think it's worth devs listening to their community - but bearing in mind WHO is doing the complaining/asking/advising.

If it's weak players who feel underpowered wanting changes to be the "FoTM" then no. If it's a well-reasoned player with a good point, then yes.

People will always complain either way - you can't please all of the people all of the time. Devs can make bad mistakes too, being human, but I don't think there should be a blanket policy on if they should obey their fans or not. I think the devs need to review for themselves what they think.

 

[squid5580]

We aren't talking a major change here. They didn't overhaul the game because a bunch of forum members bitched. They changed the skin of the MC to appease the fans. A bit of extra work to make the fans happy. Sounds like good business practice to me.

 

[Elephant Walker19]

I thought it was weird that they were like

"Ok Cole's going to a hotter city so we took his jacket off but give him a full head of hair."

 

[Thunderhorse31]

To answer your list of questions in order:

Yes.
No.
Yes.
Not always.
Hell no.

I'd say developers usually know better when it comes to gameplay mechanics. I look at Call of Duty as an example. After MW came out, people said "A great idea for a killstreak would be attack dogs," and Treyarch did it. What happened? Almost everyone I know loathed the dogs - not because they were hard, but because the execution sucked (respawn, poor hit detection, etc.). So then we said "A great idea would be to have a greater variety of killstreaks," so IW did it. And now too many people complain that they're overpowered to the point where IW had to create a separate playlist for whiners.

So yes, you have a point, but this wasn't some tiny group of morons that expressed concern over the change in Infamous character design. I had a poll here not too long ago about the redesign, and the result was that people preferred the old Cole to the new 15 to 1.

I imagine it's kinda like Blizzard's plan for Real I.D.'s. Piss off enough people with what's perceived to be a retarded idea, and the devs realize that they'd be alienating more people than pleasing them.

 

[IamSofaKingRaw]

They did the same thing with Killone 3 they changed the controls of the game to make it more like MW2 because n00bs were complaining. This was a small group as opposed to InFamous because people actually liked Killzone 2's online because it was different and more challenging to master than MW2, Halo, Resistance etc..

 

[RadiusXd]

People who ***** loudest and longest get what they want. Way of the world. I've heard people complain about games that won't be out for years to come, and they are already making pronouncements about how awesome it will be/how much it will suck.

The fact of the matter is, if developers don't listen and fuck up, we blame them for not listening to us. If they do listen, and the vocal minority convinces them to fuck it up, we still blame them for listening to the wrong people. Lose/lose scenario.

*COUGH*!religious and parents. *COUGH* religious and parents.

 

[Burningsok]

The devs should always listen, BUT the devs should be confident with their own work to know whats best. So if a good argument comes from a fan the devs can take it into consideration. That doesn't mean they have to meet the fans demands. I just think the devs should consider any kind of idea, and if good enough they could see if it works well.

 

[Blueruler182]

Um, that's one case. I mean, if any form of gamers were going to get their way it would have been the Halo 2 online players that stayed on for... what was it, two weeks? However long straight. Gamers don't get what they want by whining unless it's something minuscule, like a character model.

And I actually liked the new Cole model. He looked like fun. The other one looked too... whannabe ghetto.

 

[Arawn.Chernobog]

Gamers are whiny little creatures with foul opinions that they themselves put little thought into.

Developers should go with what their instinct tells them.