Give me more games with morally ambiguous characters/factions

[Brawndo]

I can't stand white/black stories in most games where the hero is a shining beacon of good and the antagonists are pure evil for no real reason other than being well, pure evil.



1) Example: Valkyria Chronicles

- The heroes are so obnoxious, with the gung-ho cast of the shy hero, cute girls that embody every JRPG stereotype ever, flying piglets, and excessive camaraderie
- The villains are one-dimensional Russian/German knockoffs who wear armored masks for no reason other than to obscure their humanity, and openly massacre civilians in the streets


2) Another Example: All of the non-WWII games in the Call of Duty series

- The bad guys can be summed up in one phrase: "Grrrr America must die!" There is almost no fleshing out of their rationales, nor some kind of gray area where they were justifiably wronged by the West and are simply overreacting in response


I like my games were the heroes are jaded and conflicted, or are torn up about major mistakes they commit during the course of the game. And I like when the antagonists occupy a gray area where you could understand their point of view if you really tried, or it is later revealed that the hero was mistaken about their motives. The problem is, I can't think of very many games like this. One is Braid on Xbox Live: the huge bomb of a plot twist that the game delivers in the last level was extremely refreshing, to say the least.

 

[Gigaguy64]

Oh Fire Emblem is one of those.

The main Villain Nergal is a very Tragic character who let his lust for power corrupt his intentions.

And in Golden Sun 2 you play as the Villains from the first game, and see their side of the story.

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

New Vegas sort of gets in to what you're talking about.

 

[pulse2]

Sephiroth

Renowned as one of if not THE greatest game villains of all time, yet, to this day, despite playing everything 7 releated and watching the movie, I still don't exactly understand why he is so pissed.

Yep, so you were created, you're a monster........lots of things are created, they don't want to take over the world :/ He's a very angry person for a pretty stupid reason as far as I'm concerned, which is why he has no one to follow his cause, because even your enemies think his cause is stupid, they aren't fighting for him, they are just fighting to warm themselves up after lack of exersize.

 

[The Scythian]

Alpha Protocol.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

But that would make it hard for the masses to know who to shoot.

 

[LarenzoAOG]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 for the original Xbox, a superb Star Wars RPG, you start an exile Jedi cut off from the force, you then regain your ability to use the force and track down the Jedi Masters that exiled you and have to choose... it occurs to me you may not like Star Wars, but if you do you should check this game out and its predecessor, I believe they both have a fair amount of the moral ambiguity you are looking for.

 

[Brawndo]

But that would make it hard for the masses to know who to shoot.

Yup, and that's the main problem. Most mainstream, ultra-hype releases are very cut-and-dry: USA vs. Russia/terrorists, Marines vs. Aliens, Spunky Teenagers vs. Supernatural Demon/Monster. Most of the games with characters painted in shades of gray are small titles or indie releases

 

[HT_Black]

I'd recommend Fallout: New Vegas. It took me a whole fifteen hours of faffing about to decide which choice was the least horrible.

 

[SwimmingRock]

In spoiler tag, because it is a spoiler from the very last dungeon and multiple playthroughs.

Spoiler

Nier.

Also, Tales of... which one was it? SNES game. Fantasia? I think so. Turns out the 'bad guy' was trying to use some of your planets energy to save his own dying planet.

Ooh, ooh! And Terranigma! Man, that was an awesome game.

 

[Judgement101]

I can't stand white/black stories in most games where the hero is a shining beacon of good and the antagonists are pure evil for no real reason other than being well, pure evil.



1) Example: Valkyria Chronicles

- The heroes are so obnoxious, with the gung-ho cast of the shy hero, cute girls that embody every JRPG stereotype ever, flying piglets, and excessive camaraderie
- The villains are one-dimensional Russian/German knockoffs who wear armored masks for no reason other than to obscure their humanity, and openly massacre civilians in the streets


2) Another Example: All of the non-WWII games in the Call of Duty series

- The bad guys can be summed up in one phrase: "Grrrr America must die!" There is almost no fleshing out of their rationales, nor some kind of gray area where they were justifiably wronged by the West and are simply overreacting in response


I like my games were the heroes are jaded and conflicted, or are torn up about major mistakes they commit during the course of the game. And I like when the antagonists occupy a gray area where you could understand their point of view if you really tried, or it is later revealed that the hero was mistaken about their motives. The problem is, I can't think of very many games like this. One is Braid on Xbox Live: the huge bomb of a plot twist that the game delivers in the last level was extremely refreshing, to say the least.

Well, VC is just a paper thin WWII game. If you want a game where the choices matter play New Vegas, just don't play a Persona game, the choices for things are: "Flirt" "Passive Agressive" ".........." and everyone's favorite "EXTREME AGRESSION!!!"

 

[Merkavar]

play the witcher. te choices are rarely good or evil and you dont get the consequences till like 30 mins later.

 

[Space Spoons]

It's almost a cliche to point it out at this point, but the main characters of Rockstar's games tend to be morally ambiguous, depending on how you play them.

John Marston of Red Dead Redemption, for example, is about as jaded as they come. He's been fighting for most of his life, and by the time the game starts, he's ready for it to be over. He's not particularly fussed about good or evil; he just wants it to end so he can finally hang up his guns.

Of course, his actions are all determined by the player, so nothing's set in stone, but for all intents and purposes, he has two distinct personalities: The reluctant hero who fights for good by way of atoning for past sins and the jaded gun-for-hire who'll do just about anything and kill just about anyone to get what he wants.

 

[Meestor Pickle]

Knights of the Old Republic 2 for the original Xbox, a superb Star Wars RPG, you start an exile Jedi cut off from the force, you then regain your ability to use the force and track down the Jedi Masters that exiled you and have to choose... it occurs to me you may not like Star Wars, but if you do you should check this game out and its predecessor, I believe they both have a fair amount of the moral ambiguity you are looking for.

Even if you don't like star wars, the KotORs don't overly tie into the canon.

New Vegas sort of gets in to what you're talking about.

mmmm there's no clear wrong or right. It's more...what you think would benefit yourself the best.

More so what would, yes benefit yourself OR which would be best for the Mojave

 

[Zhukov]

Moral ambiguity doesn't sell particularly well.

Sorry.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

It's almost a cliche to point it out at this point, but the main characters of Rockstar's games tend to be morally ambiguous, depending on how you play them.

John Marston of Red Dead Redemption, for example, is about as jaded as they come. He's been fighting for most of his life, and by the time the game starts, he's ready for it to be over. He's not particularly fussed about good or evil; he just wants it to end so he can finally hang up his guns.

Of course, his actions are all determined by the player, so nothing's set in stone, but for all intents and purposes, he has two distinct personalities: The reluctant hero who fights for good by way of atoning for past sins and the jaded gun-for-hire who'll do just about anything and kill just about anyone to get what he wants.

An absolute truth right here. Grand Theft Auto 4 and Red Dead Redemption are perfect for morally ambiguous characters. Nico Bellic and John Marston both don't want to fight at all. They want to be honest men for once. But the cruel, crazy, and corrupt world that surrounds them keeps dragging them back into the violence. It creates a contradiction in the character that makes them believeable. I just finished Red Dead Redemption the other day, and until the end, John Marston was so sick of fighting, but he could not exit his deal with the government. It makes the player sympathize with John (or at least I did).

 

[starhaven]

jade empire on the xbox if you still have one and can find it a good bioware game

 

[MrhalfAwake]

Sephiroth

Renowned as one of if not THE greatest game villains of all time, yet, to this day, despite playing everything 7 releated and watching the movie, I still don't exactly understand why he is so pissed.

.

1. Hah hah no

2. He's just a fucking pussy who can't deal with bad news.

Also fuck moral ambiguity half the people who use it and almost all the people who try tomake their characters that way don't even know what it means.

Villains, it doesn't matter if you have a good reason you're still doing something bad. Knock if off. Shooting a man because you're hungry doesn't make it okay it's still fucking wrong.

Heroes, having a troubled past and emotional trauma doesn't make you somehow deep. It makes you an angsty little teenage shit head. Grow a pair and shut the hell up.

Neither of you are deep, neither of you are well written. Quit using cheap back ground information as a crutch and show some goddamn emotional depth by reacting in ways that are consistent with the personality you have been developed and reacting to situations accordingly.

 

[spartan1077]

One: Alpha Protocol shows that everyone is a dick/ponce in perspective...especially the good guy.
Two: A lot of games arn't trying to show that nazis or Germany itself had a reason more than "Grumble grumble I hate this grumble gumble"