GTA V: Too Violent?

[Jake0fTrades]

I don't actually own Grand Theft Auto V, and all of my knowledge comes from reviews and YouTube gameplay videos. This forum is not meant necessarily to broadcast my opinion, but to facilitate a conversation regarding what standards for violence each of us as individuals have.

We're all gamers here; we know perfectly well that playing violent video games does not make a person inherently violent--as much as the news and media would like to claim. That's not at all what I'm trying to say. For every handful of people who commit acts of violence and who also happen to play video games, there are millions of gamers with jobs, families and stable, uncontroversial lives.

What I am saying, is that at several points Grand Theft Auto: V goes beyond my standards for justifiable violence to the point that I felt physically and emotionally uncomfortable watching it. Of particular note is the scene in which...

Spoiler

...Trevor graphically tortures a man by electrocuting him, ripping out his teeth, crushing his testicles with a wrench, waterboarding him, and pouring gasoline over him--and the whole time Trevor is making jokes as though he were making small talk at the water cooler. Even before they began torturing him, the prisoner seemed more than willing, and even eager, to give them any information they wanted.

Watching this, it made me question for a moment whether or not the media has a point: video games are ludicrously violent, and the overwhelming amount of Facebook posts I see praising the game seem to confirm that we as a whole are less sympathetic to the victims of such horrifying acts.

Even disregarding all of the seemingly crowbar'd in sex scenes, I feel appalled and disgusted with Grand Theft Auto: V, and I can't help myself but to think less of anyone who praises the game without considering the things it forces them to do.

Sorry, about the rant, but it's been on stuck in my mind recently. I don't think I can be the only person who feels this way, but if anyone out there has a perspective to share that differs from mine, then this would be the place to share it.

Spoiler

 

[Zhukov]

Huh. So that's the infamous scene. Wasn't anywhere near as disturbing as I was expecting. Guess it goes to show that an unknown in your imagination is always worse than the fact.

The whole thing is just too cartoonish to have much impact. I suppose there's only so much you can accomplish with polygons, especially when you need those polygons to run smoothly on a 360.

Gotta say though, the attempts at humour are downright unfunny. Not in an, "You can't joke about that, it's offensive!" kind of way, but just in a regular, tepid, "that joke isn't all that funny" way. It's the kind of "Huhrr, everyone's an arsehole!" humour that I would have gone crazy for as an angry fifteen year old.

Oh, and Trevor's little speech at the end is bullshit. Although I suppose it fits his character, being all sadistic and hateful and stuff.

 

[Kaendris]

I would say this OP, and try not to take this as a personal assault, it is not; do not confuse reality with fictional reality.

I have seen a good bit of the world. Chewed a bit of sand in both Afghan and Iraq, and no video game could ever make me unsympathetic to people that are affected by violence. If we acknowledge, as gamers, that violence in games does not make individuals violent, then I see no reason to assume it makes them apathetic to it either.

Now, I personally do not play games like CoD (more for personal reasons), or Payday, primarily because after my time in the military was done, something in me could no longer handle naked violence for violence sake. I was always able to handle GTA though, as it was more tongue in cheek to me than anything. That and I agree with Mr. Tito, as I found a thread of "relateability" in the characters. I am not sure I will actually be able to find enjoyment out of this current version. To me however, that is not a representation of society at large, or it's decline. It is just my personal quirk and preference.

I do not confuse the game world, or give it more prominence than it has. The messages in games can raise questions for the people playing them to consider, but behavior is an action, and judging another's morals against my own says more about me than them.

Just my 34 cents.

 

[krazykidd]

Too violent for what? For a videogame ? When we have horror and gore videogames ? Or is it because of the realism and interactivity ?

Also, this is a game for adults . Since when do we dictate what an adult should engage in? Once you are of age , the choice you make are and should be your own( as long as you aren't hurting someone obviously) . If that means buying an overly violent videogame , so be it .

There is no such thing as " too much " , when it comes to adults . The person in question should be the only one to decide if anything is too much for them , and then, they can decide not to partake ( and in this case buy ) of it .

 

[gibboss28]

Yeah those scenes were a bit fucked up, especially with the minor interactive element added in.

Too violent...Not for me. I don't mean that as in 'needs moar goar'. I mean as in, compared to some of the shit I've seen in TV shows and films, video games still have got a bit to go before I would say its too violent.

I'll give a few examples to back up what I mean.
One of my favorite shows in recent years is Sons of Anarchy. Its a show that follows the life of a member of a outlaw motorcycle gang called The Sons of Anarchy. In one of the episodes in the first season, an ex member of the gang is found to still have the gangs tattoo on his back even though he was kicked out for screwing over a fellow member. They manage to get him alone and then offer him a choice in how to remove it. Fire or Knife. He chooses fire. We are then given a scene where we see them use a blowtorch to burn this guys back tattoo. As the show has gone on there have been more fucked up bits than this.

There was a show that was on yesterday, not sure what it was called and I only caught the end of it, but it showed scenes of a guy who kills people flays them and then wears their faces as a dead skin mask. This was on at 9pm by the way.

We then have the torture porn crap with the likes of Saw and Hostel and so on. I don't really need to explain the fucked up stuff in those do I?

To me when games can get to that level of fucked up violence, I'll say its too much for me.

Also, we are still talking about pixels here, some people can shrug it off because of that, others can't. I know someone who loves video game who just can't deal with the violence in certain games so he doesn't play them. I know others who really love the violent stuff in games. Swings and Roundabouts really.

Honestly I don't really know what else to say about this, this is a scene in a game that I've not played. I've not seen what happens before it or anything. I don't know the context or what the characters reasons/justification for this doing this shit.

Ugh I dunno, fuck this I'm going to play some more Brutal Legend, something where the violence is so ridiculously over the top that it can't be taken seriously.

 

[MysticSlayer]

You know, the more I hear about GTAV disturbing people the more I want to ask my family to just mail my 360 to me rather than waiting for me to go home over Thanksgiving break so I can play it. At this rate, it is poised to pass up BioShock (the first one) in terms of how many people are too uncomfortable with it to play it, and given how well BioShock used its disturbing content I honestly want to see how well GTAV does it.

As for me, I don't see what the problem is. None of those people are real, and so long as I don't take the game into the real world and start committing actual acts of violence, then there is no harm done. At worst you're disturbed and can't look away, but that's actually a strength of video games--it forces you to confront the disturbing rather than hiding from it--not a weakness.

 

[omega 616]

"Gratuitous sex crowbarred in"? I've done every mission and every side mission I've found... I'm only 61% done but I've not done the nasty yet. You can't really claim its crowbarred in if you can avoid it. It's unfair to visit hookers and lap dancers constantly and then complain about the amount of sex.

I've been in the strip club once for a mission and once when I warped to Franklin and he was in there... I just walked straight out 'cos digital porn leaves a soir taste in my mouth, it's just unpleasant.

On to the violence, it's a gta game! It's whole thing is controversy! It's not even that bad in gta.... Have you played or even watched manhunt? What about postal? Mad world? It is one scene that in total lasts about 5 minutes.

Then there is argument to do with movies.... There is even a film about torture called "unthinkable", it's got the typical finger nail pulling, teeth pulling etc but "that's okay cos you're only watching".

Also keep in mind it's an 18+ game!

 

[EHKOS]

Yeah, because that torture victim was real, "it" felt pain, "it" isn't just 1's and 0's and you're not just making millions of tiny colored lights move in a pattern of your choosing. You don't feel bad when you shatter both the kneecaps of an old woman crossing the street with your armored bumper of your stolen car, leaving her cracked skull bleeding out on the pavement and bloody tire tracks behind. Or slaughtering a bunch of beat cops with "families".

It's fake. Get over it.

 

[EHKOS]

Then there is argument to do with movies.... There is even a film about torture called "unthinkable", it's got the typical finger nail pulling, teeth pulling etc but "that's okay cos you're only watching".

Don't forget "A Serbian Film". I hear there's infant rape or something.

 

[FootloosePhoenix]

Watching this, it made me question for a moment whether or not the media has a point: video games are ludicrously violent

I appreciate the overall point you're making, but I want to comment on this part in particular: They certainly can be ludicrously violent, but so can every other medium. I really don't see the need to single out video games as being graphically violent given that we live in a world FULL of graphically violent works of fiction...not to mention the nasty, fucked up stuff life itself coughs up. I seriously doubt that violence in video games is any more prevalent than violence in movies or TV shows is, either.

Of course there's nothing wrong with taking a step back and saying "This stuff is too violent for me and I don't want to experience it." In fact I find that a very sensible thing to do, especially when games are primarily supposed to be enjoyable. Heck, I'm exercising my right to do that now by choosing not to watch the GTA V torture scene. I'm just not sure I'd be able to stomach it after all I've read and given my tendency to be squeamish when it comes to certain things (though it could be I'd watch it and say "...That's it?" as that's happened to me more than once in these situations). But that doesn't mean violent content like this shouldn't exist.

Maybe Rockstar was making a point, maybe it was just in there for the shock factor, I don't know. Either way, a torture scene in a video game, even an incredibly popular one, doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things. I remember hearing about a torture scene in Black Ops around when it first came out which, much like this case, had an interactive component. When was the last time someone talked about that?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, because that torture victim was real, "it" felt pain, "it" isn't just 1's and 0's and you're not just making millions of tiny colored lights move in a pattern of your choosing.

Ugh seriously, this type of argument never ceases to aggravate me.

If you really believe that, why are you even playing videogames at all, unless you exclussively play just for the high score? Why play GTA if not to experience what it feels like to recklessly drive cars across the highway and into other cars and pedestrians? I mean, it's just thousands of little pixels on the screen, it's not like when formed together they can represent characters and situations that you can empathize with or feel engaged with.

Heck, this post is nothing but pixels.

 

[Elijin]

If anything the amount of non-violent gameplay options on the table in GTA V would make it potentially the most non-violent R rated game there is, depending on what you do. There are hours and hours worth of racing, marathon running, tv watching, golf playing, dart throwing, tow truck driving, exploration shenanigans.

While it might get a bit dicey in one or two points during the story, as far as the overall game goes, I'd say this game handles violence in an open world game well. In that it provides plenty of options for the player, and the game is what you make of it.

 

[Bellvedere]

Criticising something and calling for something to be banned are not the same thing. I am happy to criticise anyone that voted liberal in the last Aus election but that doesn't mean I'm questioning their right to vote or to live in Australia. All this adults can do what they want/anti-censorship stuff is irrelevant. Something being too violent is a perfectly valid criticism, personal and subjective - yes, but still valid.

I haven't played GTA V since it isn't really my thing, so I can't comment on how I would feel about the level of violence (though considering my 'delicate sensibilities' I'm thinking that I probably wouldn't be able to get through this game).

 

[Casual Shinji]

Yeah, because that torture victim was real, "it" felt pain, "it" isn't just 1's and 0's and you're not just making millions of tiny colored lights move in a pattern of your choosing.

Ugh seriously, this type of argument never ceases to aggravate me.

If you really believe that, why are you even playing videogames at all, unless you exclussively play just for the high score? Why play GTA if not to experience what it feels like to recklessly drive cars across the highway and into other cars and pedestrians? I mean, it's just thousands of little pixels on the screen, it's not like when formed together they can represent characters and situations that you can empathize with or feel engaged with.

Heck, this post is nothing but pixels.

Sure doing those things are fun, but again they are just 1's 0's and pixels. There is no reason to feel squeemish about the things done to them, or them dieing.

The point is you kill any number of people leading up to that scene, is there any guilt or uneasiness over every cop you kill, every person you run down while driving recklessly?

The point is if you can feel sad at a character dying it's not unreasonable you can feel shocked and maybe even a bit offended. This argument of "it's just pixels" usually gets brought up whenever a game does something highly controversial, or if the subject of rape gameplay gets discussed. You never see people strutting around saying 'pff, it's just pixels' when it's about the saddest moments in games, or the scariest moments in games. So whenever I hear that phrase the high and mightiness of it just smacks my right in the face, not unlike when someone talks about games or comics like it's just shallow childish indulgence with no merit.

As for the killing, the impact and shock of it all depends on the context and execution. In God of War 3 you use an innocent slave girl as a doorstop and hear her get crushed while she screams in agony. Now eventhough I had laid waste to many innocent bystanders throughout this series, this one particular sequence felt unnecessarily ghastly and mean spirited. It wasn't just Kratos swinging his blades and hitting someone running around, it was a meticulously designed section that focused solely on inflicting pain on an innocent person and reveling in it for no reason.

And that's what the torture sequence in GTA5 reminded me of. It had no point other than blunt shock, because they're Rockstar and they need to ruffle some feathers. Slowly ripping out someone's tooth or breaking their kneecap shown in extreme detail is a far cry from the consequence free spreading of slapstick chaos of the rest of the game.

And we also need to remember that just because some people might think it's offensive or in bad taste it doesn't mean they're calling for it to be banned. I'm certainly not.

 

[Blunderboy]

New rule people.
Unless you yourself have actually experienced something for yourself, be it a game or a film, you can't talk about it.
Yes GTA5 is violent. So are all the other GTA games.
But unless you've played it, you don't know the full context.

 

[Thr33X]

SNIP

It's the typical "go to" dismissive response whenever someone makes an argument that actually might have some level of validity to it.

On to my opinion...

Needless to say Rockstar's done far worse in terms of game violence than this scene. The whole of Manhunt 1 & 2 are shining examples, but in those two games cases, the violence-as extreme as is was-had context to the story. All I see this scene as is reinforcing the fact that Trevor's a reprehensible son of a *****, which is firmly established beforehand. What I don't get is how it is that video games of all mediums seem to get this kind of flak for depictions of violence that exist in other forms of entertainment. Maybe it's the interactive nature of gaming, I don't know. But in any case, Trevor's not the kind of character that you become "emotionally attached" to...none of them are, so the violence in the game in contrast to that of Manhunt's isn't meant to be symbolic, not in my opinion. I've got to link you guys to this commentary about the game by a brilliant individual aliased Allosaurus Rex. It kind of covers the topic here among others:

Spoiler: slight spoilers herein

New rule people.
Unless you yourself have actually experienced something for yourself, be it a game or a film, you can't talk about it.
Yes GTA5 is violent. So are all the other GTA games.
But unless you've played it, you don't know the full context.

You don't have to have experienced something for yourself, in this case a scene in a game, to be able to make a fair commentary about it's context. Last I checked this was a discussion board, of which most of us here live in countries where we're free to speak our minds. Just saying.

 

[Blunderboy]

New rule people.
Unless you yourself have actually experienced something for yourself, be it a game or a film, you can't talk about it.
Yes GTA5 is violent. So are all the other GTA games.
But unless you've played it, you don't know the full context.

You don't have to have experienced something for yourself, in this case a scene in a game, to be able to make a fair commentary about it's context. Last I checked this was a discussion board, of which most of us here live in countries where we're free to speak our minds. Just saying.

Okay then, how come the discussion doesn't mention the scene immediately afterwards?
The one where the FIB agent (who is basically forcing them to do this) tells Trevor to kill the guy, whereby Trevor, undoubtedly a psychopath though he may be, basically says "Fuck that" and drives the guy to the airport, saving his life?
Or how during the drive Trevor points out that as a means of gaining information Torture is USELESS. That it's only for the benefit of the person doing it, or the guys ordering it. Because faced with pain people will say WHATEVER they think will make it stop?

Oh right, because you haven't played the whole thing out.

I apoligse for spoilers.

 

[Silvanus]

I just wanted to drop in to inform people here that the Daily Mail yesterday (or possibly the day before) ran with the following header for a double-page spread about GTAV:

"A GAME THAT SPAWNS VIOLENCE".

 

[lacktheknack]

I question the wisdom in watching something vile as "entertainment". I understand the idea of your entertainment challenging you personally and emotionally, but when it's not occasional, it becomes normal.

Not that anyone actually gives a rip about my boundaries, though.

I'm OK with games like Saints Row IV, because while the violence is omnipresent, it's not challenging emotionally, it's incredibly unrealistic and it engineered to be funny more than anything. Once the games start to get gritty in their violence, I get uncomfortable pretty fast.