Guitar!

[tippy2k2]

Now that the forums seem back up and running, let's get to discussing what really matters...

Guitars!

Specifically, a request from your favorite poster in the whole wide web, tippy2k2!

I have always wanted to learn how to play an instrument, specifically drums. Unfortunately for our dashing hero, I live in an apartment and I do not expect that to change in the foreseeable future so I will go with instrument #2, the guitar.

However, our sexy young hero needs some assistance from those of you who might actually know what the hell you're talking about.

For someone who is brand new, do you recommend electric, acoustic, or does it not matter in terms of ease of use, learning, etc? Does it matter for learning or will learning one be just as easy as learning the other?

Second, do you recommend a noob doing lessons or picking up an instructional book? I did music in high school (trumpet ftw!) so I have basic understanding of reading music if that affects your advice. (No longer necessary; see post #22)

As for discussion value, do you play guitar (or any instrument I suppose)? If so, how long have you played? Are you any good? Can you do any face-melting shredders? Do tell!

 

[bojackx]

Well, I'm not sure whether I'm the best source but I have been playing guitar for 6 years now (on and off).

For your first question, it really depends what you're wanting to play songwise when it comes to deciding which is better. If you're wanting to do all kinds of songs then I'd recommend an electric guitar, since they obviously have access to a wider range of sounds.

For me, I never had a teacher or an instructional book, so I can't say how useful they are. I was able to learn just fine by learning chords and reading tabs at first, but later on you're going to want to learn scales and stuff like that. The only thing I'd suggest, if you do as I did, is learn how to hold a pick properly, since I never did and I still can't use one properly.

As for whether I'm any good, I'd say I'm an intermediate at best. I could learn to play most songs apart from their solos, but considering it's been 6 years since I started that's pretty shit.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

Cheap acoustics tend to be pretty difficult to play, due the high action (the strings being far from the fretboard basically) and often inflexible strings (on steel string guitars especially). Cheap electrics tend to be a lot easier to play by comparison.

As for whether to get lessons or not, they certainly can't hurt. I myself only had a couple of short, rudimentary lessons towards the end of school, I mostly learned from an old book my Mum had lying around, and I'd like to think I'm pretty good. I know a couple of guitarists that have gotten to a pretty decent standard just by learning songs from tabs and techniques from Youtube and online articles. If you can afford lessons, it's definitely the way to go.

Also if you can read music then you can mostly bypass the shitty tab system

I agree with bojackx about making sure you learn how to pick correctly, especially if you wanna play punk or metal type stuff. Beyond just sounding worse, poor picking technique can actually injure your wrist, so do make sure you learn how to pick right. Lessons would be ideal for this!

Have fun learning, though, guitar is an incredibly fun instrument. Shame you can't get a drum kit, though, there aren't enough drummers around I'd recommend an electric kit but it's too expensive to get one that isn't a worthless pile of shit.

 

[tippy2k2]

.

For your first question, it really depends what you're wanting to play songwise when it comes to deciding which is better. If you're wanting to do all kinds of songs then I'd recommend an electric guitar, since they obviously have access to a wider range of sounds.

Honestly, I'm not 100%. The song that really makes me want to play was Stone Sour's "Through the Glass" (clearly an acoustic guitar song). The problem is that when I sing, people question who's putting a cat in the garbage disposal so I'm leaning more electric since (I feel at least) you can get away with a weaker singing voice that way.

Spoiler: Through the Glass if you are unfamiliar

Have fun learning, though, guitar is an incredibly fun instrument. Shame you can't get a drum kit, though, there aren't enough drummers around I'd recommend an electric kit but it's too expensive to get one that isn't a worthless pile of shit.

It would be nice to go with my instrument of choice but alas, Rock Band shall have to make due until I get a real house

As for cost, both the Acoustic and the Electric are about $70 at the little guitar shop down the way. I suppose they could just be incredibly terrible guitars but I'm looking at the same cost whichever way I go.

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

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snippity

Through Glass also sounds pretty nice on a clean electric, I think, just something worth considering. Plus, your singing voice will probably improve in time, if you practice and try to learn. I've done some theatrical stuff and even given lessons in the last year, but if I showed you the shit I was singing 6 years ago, you'd question if I even knew what pitching was.

Also, by an electric kit, I meant electric drums; a cheap electric guitar would probably be fine! My first electric guitar cost me about £100 and I still love the thing to this day; it's weirdly great at funk and blues! My first acoustic was fairly nice, too, but it was a nylon string which is difficult to restring and better for more classical/traditional folk stuff (so ideal for me, but I dunno about most people!)

 

[tippy2k2]

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snippity

Through Glass also sounds pretty nice on a clean electric, I think, just something worth considering.

Wait...that thing is an electric guitar in the song? I always assumed it was acoustic with how it sounded...

Well you learn something new every day!

EDIT: Wait...never mind. I think I misread your post. It IS an acoustic on the song but you can get an electric guitar to sound like that. That's what you're saying, right?

 

[ScrabbitRabbit]

.

snippity

Through Glass also sounds pretty nice on a clean electric, I think, just something worth considering.

Wait...that thing is an electric guitar in the song? I always assumed it was acoustic with how it sounded...

Well you learn something new every day!

Naw, it is an acoustic. Well, I mean, there is electric in it (mostly the choruses), but the crux of the song is acoustic. It's just playing it on an electric still sounds nice!

 

[Weaver]

I've been playing guitar since the late 90s! I started on probably the worst acoustic guitar ever made (it was one my dad had in the basement that was at least 40 years old) and I'm pretty sure he bought it for like under $100 back in the day.

Anyways, I don't think there's any single answer to your questions.

In general, acoustic is harder to play than an Electric. Especially for a beginner. The strings tend to be more difficult to press as they're more raised off the neck and acoustic strings tend to be more metallic (some going all the way steel). However, there is just so much debate to be had.

People who say to start on acoustic says it builds up your calluses faster and the high action will make playing an electric guitar a lot easier. They also like that there is no amplifier required; you just have the guitar and that's it. Even if there's no electricity you can still play for an audience.

The people in the other group will say that acoustics are far less flexible. Since electric guitars are powered you can easily run them through all kinds of effects and amplifiers to get tons of different sounds. You can get a really clean sound that's kind of like an acoustic, or you can go heavy grunge and crank the distortion and rock it. They'll also say they're easier to record, easier to play, and will say that given so much modern music is rock/jazz inspired when the electrics and tube amps were what everyone wanted that the sounds they can get out of electrics simply trump the ability to play loudly around a campfire; largely because they don't care about that.

All that said; the choice is really yours. If you only want to play acoustic music, I'd say just go for an acoustic. If you think you'd want to branch out and play more amplified music; I'd recommend getting an electric.

You will, of course, also need an amp and a cable with your electric guitar to get the most out of it. Though to be honest, if you're in a quiet room you can easily hear your own electric unplugged if you just want some lazy practice or screwing around. Amps are more fun though.

Also there is cost to consider. A cheap Epiphone standard or an Ibanez ART100, or even a Squire Deluxe are, in my opinion, better guitars than the vast majority of their acoustic counterparts in a similar price range. This isn't to say they're great, but as a beginner there are some amazing deals on pretty goddamn good guitars for their price in the electric world.

As an aside, this is (IMO anyways) because the body and construction on an electric is less important than on an acoustic. Please, guitar aficionados note that I did not say "is not important" - because it is. Yes I've read lots of articles on tonewood and such for electrics. But coming back to reality I'm sure we can largely agree that types of wood on an electric giving you more or less sustain due to density or having more slide on the neck is not as important as the wood in an acoustic which basically defines the sonic and resonant characteristics of the entire guitar when you consider all the tone shaping you're doing with pickups, amps and effects out of an electric. And let's not also forget we're talking about a beginner who is probably years away before they can shred fast enough that their neck being made of Ebony actually matters.

All that out of the way; really if you can play either an electric or an acoustic you can play the other with pretty minimal adjustment time.

In terms of lessons, I think they're good up to a point. What lessons can teach you is proper picking technique, proper ways to train your hands. Proper ways to shape your chords. Proper ways to move your fingers, etc. You'll probably learn some easy songs to start with, maybe build up to something a bit more complicated. I personally think their usefulness will curtail after a few months to half a year unless you want to get heavy into music theory (which you could do in a book IMO).

Personally, I found lessons useful for technique but not much else. I'd recommend if you're starting lessons making it clear you only want to do them for x months or something and they might be able to make a lesson plan for you instead of just stringing you along for a few years dicking around for 30 - 60 minutes a week with you for cash. I'd also google around for good teachers in your area; not all are equal. Just cause someone can play guitar does not mean they can teach it.

This ended up being long.

 

[tippy2k2]

This ended up being long.

And even if no one else does, let it be known that I at least read it all and I greatly appreciate your efforts

If lessons are good for technique and minimal for other things, I wonder if I should talk to my "guitar" buddies instead. Like you said, a good player does not make a good teacher but it wouldn't hurt to see if he can teach as well as play. If he can teach me the "pick" usage and whatnot, I can then let the books/youtube pick up the teachings of cords and how to play things and whatnot.

 

[Weaver]

This ended up being long.

And even if no one else does, let it be known that I at least read it all and I greatly appreciate your efforts

If lessons are good for technique and minimal for other things, I wonder if I should talk to my "guitar" buddies instead. Like you said, a good player does not make a good teacher but it wouldn't hurt to see if he can teach as well as play. If he can teach me the "pick" usage and whatnot, I can then let the books/youtube pick up the teachings of cords and how to play things and whatnot.

Absolutely! Guitar friends can help learning be less stressful, more fun, and way cheaper
I'd start with them first, personally. I wish you luck on your quest!

 

[thatonedude11]

If you end up getting an electric guitar, I highly recommend picking up the game Rocksmith 2014. It's similar to Guitar Hero, but you plug in an actual guitar or bass. It's ridiculously fun, and has a lot of great tools for learning an instrument. It's helped me improve my bass playing a lot, and it's way more fun then normal instrument practice.

 

[w9496]

Rocksmith is a great game to get some of the basics down. I played bass for 2 years and still learned new things from those games when I bought them. It also helps in learning recognizable songs, which can be helpful in the early stages of learning.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

The hardest part of choosing a guitar really IS the electric/acoustic conundrum. I started playing on an electric (20 years ago this coming Wednesday, as a matter of fact) and found switching to an acoustic VERY difficult. After five years of playing electric, I found that I didn't have enough hand strength to get a quality sound out of an acoustic. My finger placement was fine, but I couldn't do anything with any degree of skill.

My compromise (and this actually worked) was picking up a hollow-body electric - the Epiphone Supernova model, a.k.a., the Noel Gallagher signature edition. Though it helped me with finger strength, I found that I disliked guitars that didn't let me hit the 22nd fret. Turns out that I valued playing freaky shit more than I cared about how pure my fretwork sounded.

In other words, I found out that I was a style guitarist like Graham Coxon more than a structured guitarist like Noel Gallagher.

Spoiler: Guess it makes sense considering I learned how to play guitar to Blur songs back in '94...

Listen to Graham Coxon's crazy guitar work as well as this unorthodox solo, which DOES hit a 22nd fret e-string at 2:16 (right on the cusp of 2:17) in the video:


(GOTTA love Keith Allen as the businessman in that last video. I think Lily got her attitude from her dad. Yeah.)

------------------------------------

Then compare that to the awesome, yet straightforward rock of Noel Gallager:

(Yeah, I was the strange American girl who was a fan of Oasis over a year and a half before Wonderwall and of Blur a full six years before Song 2. Not that I'm a music snob.)

(Yeah, right, not a music snob... tell us another good one, Zoë!)

So what kind of stuff do YOU see yourself playing, and what type of guitar would let you get that sound? That's where I'd recommend starting.

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EDIT - learning bass is another great way to pick up some crazy finger strength. I started playing about nine years after starting guitar and it helped me immeasurably.

And as far as drums, that was the instrument I started on when I was 13. They were my first love and still are. But I'd recommend learning real technique on a drum pad or something rather than relying on Rock Band. In that game, I failed every mode of songs that I ACTUALLY knew how to play, simply because I knew some proper technique and couldn't wrap my brain around doing things incorrectly. The worst was The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again because I learned how to play drums to Keith Moon. It was worse than bad playing it in Rock Band... where the living FUCK was my double bass pedal?! Bastards.

 

[JonnyHG]

I've been playing guitar for sixteen years and one of my degrees is in music. The best advice I can give you is not to negatively compare yourself to other people who are better than you. Remember that everyone who is better than you was once at the same spot you are now.

I taught myself guitar using a DOS version of wintab a long long time ago. If you do end up deciding to pay for lessons, try to find a friend or someone you feel comfortable being around. Choose a few songs that you enjoy and go from there.

 

[JonnyHG]

And as far as drums, that was the instrument I started on when I was 13. They were my first love and still are. But I'd recommend learning real technique on a drum pad or something rather than relying on Rock Band. In that game, I failed every mode of songs that I ACTUALLY knew how to play, simply because I knew some proper technique and couldn't wrap my brain around doing things incorrectly. The worst was The Who's Won't Get Fooled Again because I learned how to play drums to Keith Moon. It was worse than bad playing it in Rock Band... where the living FUCK was my double bass pedal?! Bastards.

Did you ever trying playing pro drums in Rock Band? I'm no drummer in real life, but there was a pretty big difference in the technique just switching from normal drums to pro drums. It also seems like it would be more accurate.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I learned to play on an acoustic, and I would actually recommend that simply because acoustics are generally harder to play (or, more correctly, to get a good sound out of). It teaches you to be a little cleaner and crisper in what you're actually doing, plus the difference in action and tension on the strings when you move to electric will actually have you playing faster/better once you get there.

One other thing I would advise is to not go too cheap. I know it's tempting to go really cheap just because you're learning and are maybe unsure of things, but a bad instrument with a bad sound can actually make learning harder (and maybe even turn you off the process altogether). If you're buying from a music shop then that's a really good start because you can actually ask for advice from the clerk to see which they recommend.

 

[tippy2k2]

Rocksmith 2014

Rocksmith

Sweet Zombie Jesus I forgot all about that game! I have heard that it's not a very good game but an excellent teacher (since you can see if you're doing it wrong). That may be a deciding factor.

My compromise (and this actually worked) was picking up a hollow-body electric - the Epiphone Supernova model, a.k.a., the Noel Gallagher signature edition. Though it helped me with finger strength, I found that I disliked guitars that didn't let me hit the 22nd fret. Turns out that I valued playing freaky shit more than I cared about how pure my fretwork sounded.

The guitar I was looking at (I thought) was a Stratocaster (the one from Rock Band 1) but my guitar buddy said that the Strat model has been copied and Wal-Martified a lot so it's likely the guitar I was looking at is a knock-off. On the plus side, guitar friend does know guitars (he lives in a different state otherwise I'd just make him come with me ) so the type of guitar and whether the brand sucks or not should be covered.

One other thing I would advise is to not go too cheap. I know it's tempting to go really cheap just because you're learning and are maybe unsure of things, but a bad instrument with a bad sound can actually make learning harder (and maybe even turn you off the process altogether). If you're buying from a music shop then that's a really good start because you can actually ask for advice from the clerk to see which they recommend.

It is so very tempting. I play golf; I imagine this is the same kind of thing where you don't want to pay a huge amount for clubs since you don't know if you'll like it but buying a shitty set of clubs is a good way to set yourself up for failure. I'm hoping that it being a local independent music shop will at least help avoid that.

 

[Zipa]

Best thing to do to make sure you get a genuine Fender is to buy from a good music shop local to you. They usually employ a bunch of music enthusiasts who know what they are talking about and can recommend something that is best for you as well as give you a bunch of tips on getting started. Often music shops will also run workshops and lessons to. The other advantage of a music shop is you can actually get a feel how the instrument you are potentially going to buy feels in your hands. Sometimes they can be too heavy or too light or have too narrow necks so they feel uncomfortable. (I had this problem as I have large hands)

Also don't buy too cheap like those knock off wal mart guitars that are out there, they are cheap for a reason and often can be harder to play thanks to the sub standard parts and materials they are made of.

 

[SquidVicious]

I would say get an acoustic and use the money you would have spent on an amp to have it properly set up by a luthier. They can file the nut down a bit so the action is lower and will be easy to pick, plus if you decide to learn how to fingerpick you have it already setup. Don't go super cheap ($100 or less) as their sound and build quality will show, but don't go overboard either as the first few months are the easiest to become discouraged. When I started playing banjo last year I bought a low-end Epiphone for $200, kept the receipt, and returned it within 30 days so I could upgrade because I knew this was going to be an instrument I wanted to keep on playing.

If you go the electric route, Squier is a cheaper beginner friendly version of Fender guitars and what a lot of people start with (including myself). You can usually get one for under $150 and a cheap 10-15 watt amp for another $50-$75 so it's pretty comparable to what you would spend on a good starter acoustic + setup.

As for learning material, well this might be a bit of a contentious opinion, but avoid just using books that use TAB. TAB is a format that translates notes to numerical values and visualizes them on strings. It's handy for learning songs quickly and in the right position as they were originally written, but it doesn't teach you how to read music which I think is incredibly important for any musician. Hal Leonard's Complete Guitar Edition has a little bit of TAB, but is mostly made up of standard notation but is easily explained. Another publishing company that I really like is Alfred because they include music theory with each chapter, and it's not just something they plonk at the end, so you're continually learning and reinforcing the ideas.

Oh you'll also want to get a tuner, I suggest a Snark.

 

[Jolly Co-operator]

Most of what I wanted to say has already been covered, so I'll just give a piece of general advice: Learn how the guitar actually works. Don't just learn where to put your fingers, but also why. This may sound snobby, but many of my acquaintances who say they know how to play guitar really don't. They know how to play some songs on guitar, sure, but they can't really work the guitar itself. For example, if I were to tell most of them to play a C on the 5th string, they would have no idea what I'm talking about. Basically, they're relying completely on muscle memory, with no real understanding of how they're working their guitar. Get to know your instrument intimately,the logic behind how it functions, and it generally becomes more intuitive to use and learn new songs on.

Oh, and as someone else mentioned, learn to read actual sheet music, rather than TAB. TAB is definitely useful, but sheet music will help you make sure you have the rhythm completely accurate, and the knowledge will be helpful if you ever choose to diversify into other instruments.

Snark tuners definitely get recommendation from me. I use that brand for both my guitar and my saxophone, and it's proven to be accurate for both. They're also not very expensive, at least in my experience.