Hackers Shut Down Xbox Live

[martyrdrebel27]

So, here we are again, another group of hackers ruining the fun for everyone because... well, they've stated no motive, no justification, which is the thing that truly bothers me about this. i'm all for black hat hacktivism, when you've got a purpose and a message and truly believe in something. these guys have none of that.

i hope lizard squad gets arrested, and i honestly wish them serious physical harm. not because xbox live, i'm playing single player anyways, but because of the kind of mentality a person has to have to cause social harm without even the thinnest justification. it's arrogant, anti-social, and sorta socio-pathic.

so, escapists, what your take? are they: A)Social Crusaders in a new frontier or B)a bunch of attention seeking pricks? YOU DECIDE! but the answer is B.

 

[tippy2k2]

I'm of the mind that even when you DO have a worthy cause, this kind of shit is a dick move.

When you go out of your way to inconvenience those who are not in your fight, they're not going to remember your cause; they're going to remember how you inconvenienced them. Maybe they'd have joined your side eventually, maybe they'd have been your enemy eventually, maybe they'd have stayed neutral the entire time but your side throwing a tantrum isn't going to convince anyone to join it.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

I'm of the mind that even when you DO have a worthy cause, this kind of shit is a dick move.

When you go out of your way to inconvenience those who are not in your fight, they're not going to remember your cause; they're going to remember how you inconvenienced them. Maybe they'd have joined your side eventually, maybe they'd have been your enemy eventually, maybe they'd have stayed neutral the entire time but your side throwing a tantrum isn't going to convince anyone to join it.

i get that point, but as arrogant as it sounds, i feel that if you believe your cause is just, and you're working for the good of the people, civilians in the cross-fire is an acceptable sacrifice. people only want whats easiest, not what's best, and sometimes, to make positive change, you have to inconvenience and piss off a few people for the greater good.

 

[tippy2k2]

i get that point, but as arrogant as it sounds, i feel that if you believe your cause is just, and you're working for the good of the people, civilians in the cross-fire is an acceptable sacrifice. people only want whats easiest, not what's best, and sometimes, to make positive change, you have to inconvenience and piss off a few people for the greater good.

To put out the old cliche; "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

The second you start causing major inconveniences in people that are not in your fight is the second that I lose any and all respect for you and your cause. You may have an absolutely excellent point but if you think I'm going to give any care at all to your message when you take over my free time and energy, you are sorely mistaken. At best, you're just pissing people off. At worse, you are actively driving people away from your cause.

EDIT: I changed the wording to my second paragraph since the original wording I don't think was clear enough.

 

[Irick]

To put out the old cliche; "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

The second you start bringing in people that are not in your fight is the second that I lose any and all respect for you and your cause. You may have an absolutely excellent point but if you think I'm going to give any care at all to your message when you take over my free time and energy, you are sorely mistaken. At best, you're just pissing people off. At worse, you are actively driving people away from your cause.

The point of all activism is to bring in people who are not in your fight to the fight. To bring the issues that you have to light. Otherwise, your protest just stays within a small group and no one ever hears about it.

As for the current situation: THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
This smacks of Lulzsec. The cause of bringing to light the piss poor security practices of massive corporate entities is one I can get behind, it is definitely a public service to remind people to just what degree we trust the precautions that companies take with our private data or what degree of control they have over our lives. I think these sorts of events can help bring up, for instance, dialogs about just to what degree tying our game experiences to an service that must be uninterrupted to function is acceptable. Imagine, for instance, if they took down the DRM servers for Ubisoft, EA, et all.

This is always going to be a grey area, just like to what degree activism is acceptable. It is always going to be a back and forth with people firmly on either side. We saw this with Occupy, we saw this with Fergison. People are going to be polarized around the issues but each and every issue is going to spark conversation. That's the root of activism, to spark conversation around topics that you care about. Activists may delude themselves into thinking it's about getting your point across, but the fact of the mater is the best thing that an activist can do for a cause is be controversial, to be visable and to command the public's attention.

Consider the SOPA blackouts. Was it inconvenient? Yes. Did it bring people into the fight who where not part of it? You bettcha. However, it was explicit. It didn't need interpretation and it had ages of conversation to draw on. It also had the support of a lot of big companies. Pure consumer activism will probably never have that kind of support. It's not sexy, it's expensive and it's hard.

Even if this Lizard Squad has no other motivation than some good old fashioned Lulz, they can still spark meaningful conversation to the topics that they bring attention to in their activities.

captcha: Primrose path

edit:
tippy2k2 has revised their wording. Im going to keep my response the way it is (because i'm sick and thus kinda lazy right now), but I'll point to my fourth paragraph as I feel it addresses their revised wording. I in any case feel these points all all solid enough to stand on their own.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

To put out the old cliche; "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist".

The second you start bringing in people that are not in your fight is the second that I lose any and all respect for you and your cause. You may have an absolutely excellent point but if you think I'm going to give any care at all to your message when you take over my free time and energy, you are sorely mistaken. At best, you're just pissing people off. At worse, you are actively driving people away from your cause.

The point of all activism is to bring in people who are not in your fight to the fight. To bring the issues that you have to light. Otherwise, your protest just stays within a small group and no one ever hears about it.

As for the current situation: THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
This smacks of Lulzsec. The cause of bringing to light the piss poor security practices of massive corporate entities is one I can get behind, it is definitely a public service to remind people to just what degree we trust the precautions that companies take with our private data or what degree of control they have over our lives. I think these sorts of events can help bring up, for instance, dialogs about just to what degree tying our game experiences to an service that must be uninterrupted to function is acceptable. Imagine, for instance, if they took down the DRM servers for Ubisoft, EA, et all.

This is always going to be a grey area, just like to what degree activism is acceptable. It is always going to be a back and forth with people firmly on either side. We saw this with Occupy, we saw this with Fergison. People are going to be polarized around the issues but each and every issue is going to spark conversation. That's the root of activism, to spark conversation around topics that you care about. Activists may delude themselves into thinking it's about getting your point across, but the fact of the mater is the best thing that an activist can do for a cause is be controversial, to be visable and to command the public's attention.

Consider the SOPA blackouts. Was it inconvenient? Yes. Did it bring people into the fight who where not part of it? You bettcha. However, it was explicit. It didn't need interpretation and it had ages of conversation to draw on. It also had the support of a lot of big companies. Security activism will probably never have that kind of support. It's not sexy, it's expensive and it's hard.

Even if this Lizard Squad has no other motivation than some good old fashioned Lulz, they can still spark meaningful conversation to the topics that they bring attention to in their activities.

captcha: Primrose path

but the problem with what you've said is that this exposes no security flaws. this isn't like the well executed PSN hack, this is a simple DDOS attack.

 

[Irick]

but the problem with what you've said is that this exposes no security flaws. this isn't like the well executed PSN hack, this is a simple DDOS attack.

I think you might be confusing my point a bit. I'm saying that was Lulzsec's goal, I'm not speaking toward the goals of Lizard Squad. Here, reading on into the third and fourth sentences of that paragraph: "I think these sorts of events can help bring up, for instance, dialogs about just to what degree tying our game experiences to an service that must be uninterrupted to function is acceptable. Imagine, for instance, if they took down the DRM servers for Ubisoft, EA, et all."

 

[martyrdrebel27]

but the problem with what you've said is that this exposes no security flaws. this isn't like the well executed PSN hack, this is a simple DDOS attack.

I think you might be confusing my point a bit. I'm saying that was Lulzsec's goal, I'm not speaking toward the goals of Lizard Squad. Here, reading on into the third and fourth sentences of that paragraph: "I think these sorts of events can help bring up, for instance, dialogs about just to what degree tying our game experiences to an service that must be uninterrupted to function is acceptable. Imagine, for instance, if they took down the DRM servers for Ubisoft, EA, et all."

right, right. misinterpreted point indeed.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Still nothing from Lizard Squad except that they claimed responsibility and they're promising this is the first of many attacks against XBL in the coming season.

Fuckfluffing little shit-llamas! My friend and I were going for some achievements tonight that we'd put off for too long. So much for that plan.

-------------------------

EDIT - as soon as I submitted that post, I was able to log on again. Who says complaining doesn't get you anywhere?

 

[martyrdrebel27]

Still nothing from Lizard Squad except that they claimed responsibility and they're promising this is the first of many attacks against XBL in the coming season.

Fuckfluffing little shit-llamas! My friend and I were going for some achievements tonight that we'd put off for too long. So much for that plan.

-------------------------

EDIT - as soon as I submitted that post, I was able to log on again. Who says complaining doesn't get you anywhere?

yeah, i'm worried about whatever they have planned for christmas. it was stupid putting that out there, i hope defense is on the ready and bust these assholes.

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

yeah, i'm worried about whatever they have planned for christmas. it was stupid putting that out there, i hope defense is on the ready and bust these assholes.

I hope for the same!

So you can once again sign in to XBL and use chat, but that's it. A game I wanted to play needed an update that can't be downloaded right now, so I can't play the game. I also tried to access my download history to check on something and XBL couldn't access my history either.

All Xbox services on the Microsoft website are also down, meaning you can't purchase, redeem, or download anything.

You know the silver lining in this? I REALLY hope LZ took it too far this time and will soon meet the bad-touch-fist of the FBI. Not only did they shut down XBL, they shut all Xbox services down for the last six hours of the first (and usually biggest) holiday sale. That could be a whole lot of money lost, as well as pissed-off customers who were waiting until the last minute and now can't take advantage of sale prices unless Microsoft extends the sale due to the attack. Compared to past attacks, LZ might have done enough real damage this time to warrant an escalated response.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

As for the current situation: THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
This smacks of Lulzsec. The cause of bringing to light the piss poor security practices of massive corporate entities is one I can get behind, it is definitely a public service to remind people to just what degree we trust the precautions that companies take with our private data or what degree of control they have over our lives.

I take issue with the bolded statement. We wouldn't have to trust the precautions that companies take with out private data if little shitstain assholes didn't constantly try to steal that data.

It's like saying "we stole your credit card numbers to prove that the the company storing them doesn't have enough security. It's not our fault that we're now spending your money and inconveniencing you by forcing you to get new credit cards, it's totally your fault and the company's fault. We had nothing to do with ACTIVELY STEALING from you."

This is a victim blaming mentality. It's the same as saying that it's your own fault that your house got broken into because you didn't put bars over your windows. It's not a public service to show people they're their vulnerable by directly harming them.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

yeah, i'm worried about whatever they have planned for christmas. it was stupid putting that out there, i hope defense is on the ready and bust these assholes.

I hope for the same!

So you can once again sign in to XBL and use chat, but that's it. A game I wanted to play needed an update that can't be downloaded right now, so I can't play the game. I also tried to access my download history to check on something and XBL couldn't access my history either.

All Xbox services on the Microsoft website are also down, meaning you can't purchase, redeem, or download anything.

You know the silver lining in this? I REALLY hope LZ took it too far this time and will soon meet the bad-touch-fist of the FBI. Not only did they shut down XBL, they shut all Xbox services down for the last six hours of the first (and usually biggest) holiday sale. That could be a whole lot of money lost, as well as pissed-off customers who were waiting until the last minute and now can't take advantage of sale prices unless Microsoft extends the sale due to the attack. Compared to past attacks, LZ might have done enough real damage this time to warrant an escalated response.

you know, i hadn't even considered this in the context of the cyber monday sale. i was a little skeptical about whether or not any laws were actually broke, i don't know if it's illegal to just send a bunch of data to someone or not, but maliciously interfering with a company's ability to carry out commerce, that's gonna get some attention. i hope they make an example of this group, if busted. maximum penalties for anyone even slightly involved.

 

[Irick]

As for the current situation: THERE IS AS YET INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR A MEANINGFUL ANSWER.
This smacks of Lulzsec. The cause of bringing to light the piss poor security practices of massive corporate entities is one I can get behind, it is definitely a public service to remind people to just what degree we trust the precautions that companies take with our private data or what degree of control they have over our lives.

I take issue with the bolded statement. We wouldn't have to trust the precautions that companies take with out private data if little shitstain assholes didn't constantly try to steal that data.

But they will, so the sentiment is somewhat redundant. If everyone was perfect we wouldn't need law or order, and in a perfect heist no one knows anything happens. The technical sophistication of some attacks can go largely unnoticed in the day to day operations of the massive companies that they are launched against. It is also somewhat counter to the bottom line for a company to admit to such breaches occurring. The reality of the situation is that these sort of high profile attacks are one of the most effective ways to bring about public awareness of security problems.

Outside of the visceral feeling of fear or sometimes annoyance, these issues seem too abstract for the public. Security protocol, hardening systems, I could go on and on about how these are important to each and every one of us but until it is too late and something massive like heartbleed hits or the Target breach affects millions of people, no one cares. Put into the perspective of attacks that do real damage the actions of Lulsec where positively tame and truly only did serve as just annoying enough to affect real change. Though, as always, it was temporary change.

These issues are just too abstract for most people to take to heart.

It's like saying "we stole your credit card numbers to prove that the the company storing them doesn't have enough security. It's not our fault that we're now spending your money and inconveniencing you by forcing you to get new credit cards, it's totally your fault and the company's fault. We had nothing to do with ACTIVELY STEALING from you."

That's an odd extrapolation, and nothing like what I said or claimed. You might want to revisit my reasoning, there is a possibility you may have misread it.

This is a victim blaming mentality. It's the same as saying that it's your own fault that your house got broken into because you didn't put bars over your windows. It's not a public service to show people they're their vulnerable by directly harming them.

It's not your house.
It's an apartment complex. You have no say as to the security you can implement to protect it because you don't own the doors, the walls, the windows or floors. But they are still there to protect you, and they are deeply flawed. Someone comes up and tells the apartment complex politely that the hinges they are using can be easily dislodged with a common salad fork and suggest that they switch to using slightly more expensive hinges that have proven robust against salad forks.

The apartment complex decides against this course of action because it seems very unlikely that it would provide a significant value to them and they don't think that the average tenant cares much about how pervious their door hinges are to salad forks. So someone, in a fit of resistance, goes around at night when everyone is asleep and takes off every door of the main office building, using them to create large block letters in the front yard spelling out "Fix It".

 

[Ten Foot Bunny]

Scratch everything I said earlier about "fixed"... I can actually sign in to a point where I can chat in a party with people, but I can't play a game or do anything that requires a Live connection because XBL still says I'm not signed in. My Xbox is still a brick now, over six hours after this shit started.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

I fully back anything that shows large corporations to be incompetant in handling the personal data of millions of people. So a few people can't play the latest tedious cash cow for a few hours...seems like a tiny price to pay if the consequence is that those people's valuable financial details become more secure. But as long as people defend the massive corporations from blame in making a system that isn't secure then those same corporations will continue to make millions from shoddy work.

I know, i know...it's the modern way...charge more, protect less.

 

[Tayh]

I fully back anything that shows large corporations to be incompetant in handling the personal data of millions of people.

Many people are enthusiastic about the idea of hacker groups attacking corporations in order to teach them better security. That is, until it's their own data and money being stolen.

 

[Tohuvabohu]

There's an awful lot of philosophical rambling going on here over a group of trolls ruining things for others. How strange.

So that's what happened to XBL last night. I was looking to unwind by settling down for the evening after a long day by watching Netflix with my lady. But neither of us could get the damn thing to work. Yeah, thanks a lot.

Battlenet got taken down during the black friday sale a few days back and blizz admitted it was the result of a ddos attack, probably the same group of people. Guess we have no choice but to wait for the next ddos attack.

 

[Dansen]

I fully back anything that shows large corporations to be incompetant in handling the personal data of millions of people. So a few people can't play the latest tedious cash cow for a few hours...seems like a tiny price to pay if the consequence is that those people's valuable financial details become more secure. But as long as people defend the massive corporations from blame in making a system that isn't secure then those same corporations will continue to make millions from shoddy work.

I know, i know...it's the modern way...charge more, protect less.

Not sure how you could possibly support this. These goons from lizard squad attack any large online gaming service. Its not a couple of people it affects millions of people. Its not a huge deal in the scope of peoples lives but it doesn't change the fact that its irritating as fuck and extreamly arrogant. Going by your logic in order to improve the police force we must attack people indiscriminately so that they step up public security. Its not a public service its an act of vandalism.

 

[mxc2012]

So, here we are again, another group of hackers ruining the fun for everyone because... well, they've stated no motive, no justification, which is the thing that truly bothers me about this. i'm all for black hat hacktivism, when you've got a purpose and a message and truly believe in something. these guys have none of that.

i hope lizard squad gets arrested, and i honestly wish them serious physical harm. not because xbox live, i'm playing single player anyways, but because of the kind of mentality a person has to have to cause social harm without even the thinnest justification. it's arrogant, anti-social, and sorta socio-pathic.

so, escapists, what your take? are they: A)Social Crusaders in a new frontier or B)a bunch of attention seeking pricks? YOU DECIDE! but the answer is B.

of course the answer is B, but it goes further than that. they are virtual terrorists. they are no better than any terrorist group out there in the world.