Hail Ulfric!!!!!..........??

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Vandenberg1

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May 26, 2011
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I was reading a previous article about joining either the Stormcloaks or Imperials in the civil war of Skyrim. One of the arguments I heard was comparing Ulfric to Hitler and the Nazi party,... As a man from a German family I was offended by this kind of accusation

1. Hitler killed and executed tens of thousands of his own people who spoke up against the his party, Ulfric to my knowledge killed no one but the High King, and then only challenging him to a duel. Later in the game you fight the General of Imperials along his side and even then he wants to allow them to walk away or defend themselves.

2. IMPERIALS are the ones exeecuting civilians on the behalf of the Elves!!!?? THEY ARE KILLING THE FAMILIES OF THEIR OWN FU**ING SOLDIERS BECAUSE ONE OF THEIR GODS OFFENDS THE ELVES WHO THEY MADE THE NORDS FIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

3. The Imperials allow Thalmor agents into their cities routing out Talos worshippers...Hmm gee secret service agents killing people for their faith? Where have I heard this one?...Catholic pagan persecutions(sorry I'm a Odin worshipper :) )? Gestapo and political enemies and Jews? hmmm

4. Ulfric hates Elves... this makes him a rascist bigot?... They were in a violent war with the High Elves for years, hell U.S. people called Japanese people horribe things during war, it happens and helps to be little a people you are fighting, plus they are responsible for said executions and persecution. Second of all he invited and allowed landless Dark Elves into his city while not trusting them. They live in a crappier part of the city but at least he did not let them die outside the walls. and why trust Elves who worship a Daedric god of murder and deceit. At least he gave them a home...They hating High Elves probably helped.

5. Is he after the crown for himself? Yes, he wants power. Will he be better for the PEOPLE of Skyrim? Far better. Like the real Roman Empire, Cyodill is a dead nation squeezing its occupied lands to stay afloat. Like in Dragon Age, the kind King of the Dwarves was a worse choice for his people while the selfish Dwarven King actually improved the lives of his people.
 

faspxina

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Feb 1, 2010
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You know people have been playing too much Skyrim when you find political threads about it on forums.

:p
 

TheIronRuler

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Mar 18, 2011
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As a Bosmer, I am insulted by the racist forces of the Stomcloaks and the men following Ulfric.
Down with the Nords, on with Mer! I will continue to worship my gods by eating my dead enemies! I shall remain strictly carnivorous like a real Bosmer.
Damn you Nords, let the superiority of Mer be known throughout Tamriel!
I do not accept Talos as a god either.
 

kuyo

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Dec 25, 2008
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Both sides suck. the only reason to choose either is to kill the other. I'd prefer the option to assassinate both leaders cause I hold both accountable for my near execution and they're both unapologetic assholes about it. I don't need an army, I could totally take the whole nation. I pretty much did, becoming thane everywhere but winterhold because Ulfric doesn't seem to care about any of my help that isn't killing imperials. I tried murdering Ulfric just because he wouldn't shut up with that long speech. I thought he wouldn't talk to me while that was going on, so I waited. It just keeps going, so I marked him for death (the only worthwhile shout)
 

Kopikatsu

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Vandenberg1 said:
I was reading a previous article about joining either the Stormcloaks or Imperials in the civil war of Skyrim. One of the arguments I heard was comparing Ulfric to Hitler and the Nazi party,... As a man from a German family I was offended by this kind of accusation

1. Hitler killed and executed tens of thousands of his own people who spoke up against the his party, Ulfric to my knowledge killed no one but the High King, and then only challenging him to a duel. Later in the game you fight the General of Imperials along his side and even then he wants to allow them to walk away or defend themselves.

2. IMPERIALS are the ones exeecuting civilians on the behalf of the Elves!!!?? THEY ARE KILLING THE FAMILIES OF THEIR OWN FU**ING SOLDIERS BECAUSE ONE OF THEIR GODS OFFENDS THE ELVES WHO THEY MADE THE NORDS FIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

3. The Imperials allow Thalmor agents into their cities routing out Talos worshippers...Hmm gee secret service agents killing people for their faith? Where have I heard this one?...Catholic pagan persecutions(sorry I'm a Odin worshipper :) )? Gestapo and political enemies and Jews? hmmm

4. Ulfric hates Elves... this makes him a rascist bigot?... They were in a violent war with the High Elves for years, hell U.S. people called Japanese people horribe things during war, it happens and helps to be little a people you are fighting, plus they are responsible for said executions and persecution. Second of all he invited and allowed landless Dark Elves into his city while not trusting them. They live in a crappier part of the city but at least he did not let them die outside the walls. and why trust Elves who worship a Daedric god of murder and deceit. At least he gave them a home...They hating High Elves probably helped.

5. Is he after the crown for himself? Yes, he wants power. Will he be better for the PEOPLE of Skyrim? Far better. Like the real Roman Empire, Cyodill is a dead nation squeezing its occupied lands to stay afloat. Like in Dragon Age, the kind King of the Dwarves was a worse choice for his people while the selfish Dwarven King actually improved the lives of his people.
1. Techically every Nord and Imperial that died in the civil war is Ulfric's doing. If not for him, many lives would have been spared. He's not on Hitler-level though, no.

2. The Empire doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. The Altmeri Dominion won the war against the Empire, basically. Besides, the Altmeri Dominion's ultimate goal is to retake all of Tamriel. They'll use any excuse to make a land grab, so yes. The Empire has to execute the followers of Talos. If they didn't, then practically everyone would be killed/enslaved by the Thalmor.

3. See above.

4. Ulfric and most Nords are racist bigots, yes. It isn't just the Altmer, they're racist against every non-Nord race. That includes non-elves.

5. If by 'far better' you mean that it'll allow the Thalmor to take over Skyrim and slaughter/enslave all of it's inhabitants, then yes, it will be 'far better'. Ulfric is just a puppet being manipulated by the Thalmor, but he's too thick to see it.
 

AugustFall

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May 5, 2009
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Both sides have negative aspects.

I chose the stormcloaks because my character is nord and my next character won't be so this will be the character that makes sense.
Ulfric is racist and obsessed with power more than the goals of the Stormcloaks. The Stormcloaks' overall agenda is fine with me, religious and cultural discrimination doesn't seem right but as the end of the stormcloaks' questline shows You have done more harm than good by diverting the empire's attention from the thalmor
 

SidingWithTheEnemy

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Sep 29, 2011
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As man with a quite Germanic heritage myself let me tell you that propaganda just works wonders. Be it Skyrim or the third Reich.
Both sides tell you what they want you to believe, just like Goebbels did. Additional Vladimir Kulich is an awesome voice actor for Ulfric Adolf Stormcloak and General Field Marshall Goering Tullius is also voiced pretty well by Michael Hogan.
Bethesda just succeded to make the civil war very convincing and both parties very interesting.

Other than that, in my opinion Ulfric tried to ursurpe the throne of Skyrim by using some barbaric and ridiculusly obsolete Ritual while on the other hand his double moral standards shows off as he fears that the Moot electing the next Highking would not favor him, because the Jarls probably think his is a dick.
The bureaucracy of the Imperium failed blantaly and should have killed him on the spot at the ambush site close to Helgen. "Epic Fail"
Oh and innocent people have always been execute without reason. You can't blame the Empire for that. Try to look at the big picutre...
By the way, my main character deserved to get executed, he was a child murderer. Lucky for him they lost his papers or nobody would have been friendly after he survived Helgen.

Anyway, the whole racism permating most Nords is absolutely underlining the whole futile point of his pitiful self-absorbing pretentious little rebellion.
In order to stay true to the nazi-comparision camps you have to look at the Grey Quarter in Windhelm which bear several resemblances to the Ghetto in Warsaw.

And to make a futile but bold final statement:
I think if Ulfric had Cyclon-B at his disposal he would probably have used it. Because he is that sort of ruthless...

For the Empraahrahahrarhahhh.... ;-)
 

DEAD34345

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Aug 18, 2010
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kuyo said:
Both sides suck. the only reason to choose either is to kill the other. I'd prefer the option to assassinate both leaders cause I hold both accountable for my near execution and they're both unapologetic assholes about it. I don't need an army, I could totally take the whole nation. I pretty much did, becoming thane everywhere but winterhold because Ulfric doesn't seem to care about any of my help that isn't killing imperials. I tried murdering Ulfric just because he wouldn't shut up with that long speech. I thought he wouldn't talk to me while that was going on, so I waited. It just keeps going, so I marked him for death (the only worthwhile shout)
You can assassinate both leaders. Uh, these are very big spoilers though, so don't look if you don't want that.

Join the Imperials and eventually you will get to kill Ulfric Stormcloak. Also join the Dark Brotherhood, and you will get to assassinate the Emperor. There you go, the death of both leaders by your hands, just as you wanted.
 

kuyo

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Dec 25, 2008
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lunncal said:
kuyo said:
Both sides suck. the only reason to choose either is to kill the other. I'd prefer the option to assassinate both leaders ...
You can assassinate both leaders. Uh, these are very big spoilers though, so don't look if you don't want that.

Join the Imperials and eventually you will get to kill Ulfric Stormcloak. Also join the Dark Brotherhood, and you will get to assassinate the Emperor. There you go, the death of both leaders by your hands, just as you wanted.
That's still somehow the Empire's win, and I don't want that. I want to win. For me. I want to make myself high king and keep Ulfric and Tullius as the ends of my throne (like when I sit, my hands clutch their severed heads.) Then I'd take my speechcraft up enough to buy the puppetry perk and start up a ventriloquist routine where I ask them for advice on issues. I suppose I could switch out Tullius for the Emperor and use his head as a foot stool or something, but that doesn't play well for symmetry. It's too bad Ulfric is so unlikeable, if he had a friend, I could use that head with Tullius to make slippers (that's something from the smithing tree right?)
 

Kimarous

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Sep 23, 2009
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I oppose the Stormcloaks purely because they seem like crap rulers. Ulfric needs no elaboration, Laila Law-Giver is oblivious that her town is a wretched hive she has no power over, Skald the Elder gives so many of his troops to the Stormcloaks that he neglects the safety of his own hold, and Korir is a fierce mage-hater ruling over the mage's college. At least the Imperial-supporting Jarls seems halfway competent (lazy bum Siddgeir excluded, but at least his steward has things under control).
 

BlumiereBleck

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Dec 11, 2008
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I'm German, and not offended by it. Ulfric is more of a Stalin than anything anyways. Also Gooooo Imperials!
 

BlumiereBleck

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Kopikatsu said:
Actually the war ended in a stalemate. Though the Imperial City was taken by the Thalmor, the Emperor himself led a charge that had retaken the city, which had utterly crushed all Thalmor armies within Cyrodil. Both sides without enough force to finish each other signed a treaty ending the war.

http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Great_War
 
Mar 9, 2010
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Vandenberg1 said:
As a man from a German family I was offended by this kind of accusation
I don't see why. He's a man from a different country, from a different time that plays little to no part in your life now. I want to know why making that comparison overtly offends you.

OT: Poor comparison, but when you hear racial persecution you think of the Nazis and the Jews. Ulfric is nothing like Hitler; he's like a lot of other leaders but not Hitler.

The Thalmor are not like the Gestapo though. The Gestapo relied on public support to detain political opponents for the Nazi party. The Thalmor do their own accusations on their own behalf for the Aldmeri Dominion, not the Empire.

To compare the civil war in Skyrim to WW2 is foolish. As with anything you'll find links, however these links are weak and you could easily find other links from far better time periods.
 

Muspelheim

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Tja-lala-lala-la, Ulfric Åkesson! :p

Well, with that very obscure reference out of the way... I honestly think you are taking this fictional conflict just a little bit too serious.

Furthermore, yes the Empire isn't the best organization around. But at least they operate out of a modicum of realism.
 

Prince Regent

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SidingWithTheEnemy said:
As man with a quite Germanic heritage myself
I'm guessing you mean German heritage. Because everything from Norway to Great britain is Germanic. Hell most of the US's, Australia's and Canada's heritage is Germanic. ;)

That said I do consider the Stormcloaks to be a shortsighted and discriminating bunch.
 

ZenoX969

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Apr 1, 2011
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Torygg and Elisif still worshiped Talos, though they did it secretly. There's a little side-quest you get from Elisif where you bring Torygg's Horn to a Shrine of Talos, since she couldn't openly do it during his burial ceremony. She also mentions that Torygg respected Ulfric and his beliefs. And that he would've probably denounced the Empire and made Skyrim independant if Ulfric asked him to.

But then there's the Thalmor dossiers pointing out how beneficial it is for them to have Ulfric fight the Empire. Since they don't care about either side, as long as both sides are weakened. Ulfric only cares about Ulfric. He wants the throne for himself, not for his people. He's got a few good points, but it would be better in the long run to stick with the Empire. And maybe one day they'd all be strong enough to defeat the Aldmeri Dominion together. Then they could just make Talos worship legal again.