"Hardcore" gamers are hipsters.

[Shadowsole]

EDIT:
Clearly Hipster is not the best word.
I apologise.
My Point still stands that as far as i've been able to see the people who played games before the rise in casual games came about have irational hate on the new 'casual' gamers.
As I see It Casual Games are a stepping stone to the more "hardcore" games
Someone plays bejewlied or whatnot and they learn the basics of gaming. they then try a more complicated game. then continue on untill they can play most games

I see it as the current gen version of paint > That Skiing game that i always died in because of that monster > Super Mario Bros. > Mario 64 > Jak And Daxter > Final Fantasy > Mass Effect.

Peronally that is the stepping stones that helped me get the ability needed to play most games.

I do not understand the idea that 'casual' gamers are dystroying the industry.




First of all I'm a hybrid gamer as far as i can tell. or i'm just a picky hardcore gamer this isn't hate on hardcore or causal games ( I'm currently playing nintendogs and cats for gods sake)
second Hipsters might not be the right word. but it works in the way that my social circle uses it.

On to the point, i've been thinking for a while that 'our' reaction to the causal gaming is very much like a negative stereotype, It just hit me this was hipsters.

My understanding of hipsters is they are the people who only like a band when they are underground. the moment it becmes popular they start arguing and complaining that the band has 'sold out' or what not.
Apply this to gamers with the band being the gaming industry.

It's become popular so we're complaining that it's changed when really it really hasn't that much.
Back at the begining there was pong and the like. Thats a causal game, Games like the Katamari games i'd call causal.

causual games have always existed. But now that Gaming isn't a exclusive club we see them as evil.

I played a farmville rip off for a while a year or two back. and you know what. It was fun. i've since lost my intrest in it but i enjoyed it. Really I say this to anyone who hate casual games because there casual, who hate gimicks like kinect and move. Grow up, gaming isn't your club

Note: My complaint is really that 'hardcore' gamers have made it so i'm embarrased by the fact i play casual games aswell. A game is a game no matter how hard

 

[VanQ]

I love games, I have loved games for the entire 21 years I have lived, or at least for as long as I remember. I don't like the "new wave" of casuals because a larger portion of games are getting easier and shorter, there aren't many challenging games around outside of the indie or JRPG genres and lets not even talk about FFXIII.
What I will say that I "hate" is when the casual gamers stereotype ME for playing difficult games. Guess what, we're giving what we have received for our entire lives. YOU ridiculed US for generations, and NOW you're going to traipse on our lawn, change the way we organised our ornaments and you're now bitching at us for liking things the way they were.
I still love games regardless. Does that make me a "hipster?" I don't think so and I think you're generalizing. Get a life and stop looking for a fight.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'll play anything that I think looks shiny really. I've been playing games since Space Invaders when I was 6. I actually feel a bit guilty if I put something more serious down like Dead Space or Fallout Vegas and pick up say the sims or a facebook game but I don't know why I do. Fun is fun I'm not sure why we feel the need to seperate it out.

reminded me of this pic a mate sent me recently

 

[Shadowsole]

I don't like the "new wave" of casuals because a larger portion of games are getting easier and shorter, there aren't many challenging games around outside of the indie or JRPG genres and lets not even talk about FFXIII.

First of all sorry if it seemed like I'm looking for a fight

and i've played games since 1997 I'm not a newcomer.
what i'm saying is this new influx of casual games isn't changing much. there always been bad games, because of difficulty (or lack of) or other reasons.
it's not like Hardcore gamers arn't getting games they want. Take Duke Nukem Forever. that game is not for the casual market if only due to content.

And i Don't really understand where that quip about FFXIII is about other than you don't like it

 

[Shadowsole]

I actually feel a bit guilty if I put something more serious down like Dead Space or Fallout Vegas and pick up say the sims or a facebook game but I don't know why I do. Fun is fun I'm not sure why we feel the need to seperate it out.

This is what I feel aswell. When I bought The Nintendogs and cats game I found myself making excuses to the cashier as to why.

I can tell a causal gamer I play Mass effect and the like but I get attacked if i mention i play the sims or nintendogs

 

[Master Kuja]

Snip.

This! For the love of god this.

It's nothing to do with hating casual gamers, as this gentleman said, it's what they mean for the industry. It's an increased likelihood of devs settling for "safe" games that are assured to rake in the profit rather than creating games that actually innovate, that actually make us feel and think.

When a company that used to innovate turns round and decides to milk the crap out of the last success story it put out, it's a dark turn for the industry.
When making "safe" and "bland" games that can be marketed to anyone due to brand familiarity is the primary goal over innovation and design, that's when the red flag should go up and a company should go back to the drawing board.

Again, as stated above, we're a demographic who so desperately wants to see our medium turned into an art form due to the nature of some of the finest works in the industry, works that do make us think and feel things, yet the growing number of people who only want these cookie cutter sequels signifies that our medium will never rise above that of the Michael Bays of the film world...

And that, that is depressing. If that really makes me a hipster, then so be it. I don't hate casual gamers, I welcome new people into the medium with open arms, hell, I'm even giving my 360 to my mum so she can get into gaming!

 

[Shadowsole]

I hope that I don't get suspended again for this.

Sir, screw you and the horse you rode in on, the two don't compare in the slightest, the reason that hardcore gamers like myself take issue with the prevalence and popularirity of casual games has nothing to do with gaming no longer being an exclusive club and everything to do with it becoming the (for lack of a better analogy) face of gaming.

We desire so much for gaming to be recognised as an artform, and method of storytelling that when we see a game we truely love, a game that we can all point to and declare "That game made me feel." being ground in to the dirt by a game that was made to trick people in to spending money...
Well we get upset.

Now granted we often laude obscure games, but that is because more often than not they fall beneath the radar and we wish to seek out hidden ems and bring them in to the light.

But it's always the simple games, the "safe" games the ones that don't innovate or try something new that get all the attention, with the way things are is it any wonmder we fear for the industry?
When any firm at any moment could look at their miserble profit margin for their latest relief and simply say "fuck it, from now on we make only standard military shooters!", or in a less likely but still terrifying scenario "Fuck it, it's facebook games for us from now on.", is it any wonder we freak out and bash casual gamers as a sign of the coming apocolypse?
Especially as more and more games are being simplified to appeal to them.

It's not that we hate casual games as such, it's that we fear what they mean for the industry.

Though there are of corse hipsters in the mix, that goes without saying, and they're no good for the industry either.

First of all I understand. I was upset with casual gaming for the same reason. but as far as i see the decline of innotive shooters is just marking the decline of that genre, something that i personally saw with platformers.
and as i've said there has always been casual games, I belive what we should be worried about is shovelware. which yes is more of a casual gaming problem. but frankly i see it as blaming every muslim for 9.11

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Thing is...what is a hardcore gamer?

I mean I play computer games like a nutcase. I have every generation of console and 3 old pc's in my possession. I play everything from L4D to The Sims 3, from Fallout Vegas to Dwarf Fortress. I have at least 3 games lined up to play atm but I'm making myself play ME2 for 100% for ME3. One of those game is Spore another is Dead Space 2. I have Amnesia to finish also.

I ran a guild on Wow but I'm taking a break atm because of work and left it in the hands of officers. Am I a hardcore gamer or do I lose points for playing the Sims and Frontierville? I dunno I just don't know where I fit to be making judgements on other people.

 

[VanQ]

Snip.

This is well worded and more eloquent than I could have said myself. While I'm not a huge fan of "games as art" I can understand the push for them to be considered so and I can see how recently, the big boys in the industry has worked to reverse any progress we have made in this direction. Nobody ever blamed casual gamers for the decline in innovation. That rests solely on the developers for choosing not to innovate.
In fact, I've yet to ever actually witness anyone bash a casual gamer for what they do, most of the gamers I know that I would consider hardcore don't give a damn about whether someone put more hours into Bejeweled than they did in Eve.
On the other hand, I get flak daily from people for playing untranslated JRPGs. If I'm playing my PSP in peace with the headphones in, I don't need people tapping my shoulder and saying "You know what a good game is? Halo!" And then guffawing and running off. This actually happened, and by guys that were at least twice my age.
I don't care for the terms casual and hardcore to begin with, can't we all just play games the way we like to in peace? I don't bother you when you play farmville or Halo, can you please not bother me when I play Persona or Demon's Souls.

 

[Penitent]

I personally never see any hipsters in my life, so it always bothers me why the internet (or at least 9Gag) has such an obsession with making fun of them.

But if they really are all as anti-social as hardcore gamers, then keep me the hell away from them.

 

[moretimethansense]

First of all I understand. I was upset with casual gaming for the same reason. but as far as i see the decline of innotive shooters is just marking the decline of that genre, something that i personally saw with platformers.
and as i've said there has always been casual games, I belive what we should be worried about is shovelware. which yes is more of a casual gaming problem. but frankly i see it as blaming every muslim for 9.11

Casual games yes, but they have never dominated the market in such a way before (don't point out Atari, you know that doesn't count.) A game that costs very little to make can earn a fucking fortune, and games that don't bother innovating or being challangeing are dominating the market.
Shovalware is bad, but shovalware is nowhere near as big of a threat.

And I'm not blaming every muslimfor 11/9, I'm blaming Farmville!

 

[moretimethansense]

Snip.

This is well worded and more eloquent than I could have said myself. While I'm not a huge fan of "games as art" I can understand the push for them to be considered so and I can see how recently, the big boys in the industry has worked to reverse any progress we have made in this direction. Nobody ever blamed casual gamers for the decline in innovation. That rests solely on the developers for choosing not to innovate.
In fact, I've yet to ever actually witness anyone bash a casual gamer for what they do, most of the gamers I know that I would consider hardcore don't give a damn about whether someone put more hours into Bejeweled than they did in Eve.
On the other hand, I get flak daily from people for playing untranslated JRPGs. If I'm playing my PSP in peace with the headphones in, I don't need people tapping my shoulder and saying "You know what a good game is? Halo!" And then guffawing and running off. This actually happened, and by guys that were at least twice my age.
I don't care for the terms casual and hardcore to begin with, can't we all just play games the way we like to in peace? I don't bother you when you play farmville or Halo, can you please not bother me when I play Persona or Demon's Souls.

Wow, that is really something, I've heard of people acting like their game (often the only one they play) is the best thing evar, but I don't think I've heard of one being quite so blatant before, at least not face to face.

Though I don't blame casual gamers for that, I blame raving morons.

 

[Shadowsole]

Thing is...what is a hardcore gamer?

I mean I play computer games like a nutcase. I have every generation of console and 3 old pc's in my possession. I play everything from L4D to The Sims 3, from Fallout Vegas to Dwarf Fortress. I have at least 3 games lined up to play atm but I'm making myself play ME2 for 100% for ME3. One of those game is Spore another is Dead Space 2. I have Amnesia to finish also.

I ran a guild on Wow but I'm taking a break atm because of work and left it in the hands of officers. Am I a hardcore gamer or do I lose points for playing the Sims and Frontierville? I dunno I just don't know where I fit to be making judgements on other people.

I don't really know. You seem like me. and really all i want is to play the sims, nintendogs without being the scrounge of the earth to the people i'd like to talk with about duke nukem and mass effect 3.
I guess my problem is i don't see all these casual games ruining the market. just another face of it.
We just need to prove that 'hardcore' games are still profitable.
I went a bit off track there i think what you might want is a game to be a game.
No diffrence between casual and hardcore

 

[VanQ]

Though I don't blame casual gamers for that, I blame raving morons.

That's one of the more extreme examples off the top of my head. Unfortunately most people between the age of 20-30 in my area are complete, raving idiots and that seems to be the popular thing right now. If you have to stop shooting something for more than 30 seconds to listen to someone talking or, by God, if you have to READ to progress, it's not worth a second glance.
I've actually had a complete stranger complain to me that the first 5 minute of MW2 was "so lame because that sergeant dude talked for too long." Then upon seeing me playing Disgaea on my PSP, he started to flip out because it was turn based and that turn based combat is bad because the "developers were too lazy to put real time combat in." I was utterly speechless.
I know that not all gamers are like this, I just wish that this vocal few didn't force their views on me so aggressively.

 

[PSIcho2468]

Casual gaming is not that bad as far as I can tell, while yes nothing new has been brought to the table for a while, but that can also limit to either people using what works such as building a house you build it a lot like the next guy because it works. But also there is how people might not be able to think of ideas which seem good. And for me the only difference between hardcore gamers and casual gamers are skill and knowledge, an example would be that my mates talk about call of duty while I try to talk about how I'm having trouble with a bit in Mother. They won't get it due to a) me being the pirate I am would have played this game opposed to my mates. b) I'm talking about a RPG while they like FPS games and c)since my mates are fourteen, they won't know about games older then they are. But when I do talk about modern games, as far as I know, I'm the only one in my class to have played bulletstorm, Dead Space, Splatterhouse and many others. It seems I can only humour them by playing CoD untill my eyes bleed. And for FPS fans, there's a large lack of people who know of DOOM

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't see the point of this. Perhaps you have some sort of point about people getting too worked up about the popularity of certain games but all this trying to label as "hipsters" or whatever just seems like schoolyard bullying.

 

[SnowyGamester]

I don't care for casual games, nor do I care about them. I do care how they will effect the upcoming games that I may enjoy, or may not get to enjoy. I certainly hope that rather than completely overthrow the 'hardcore' market, casual games become the next bland unimaginative fps, by which I mean a majority of the non-innovaters and risk-averse studios start developing those kinds of games, leaving all the quality games here for us...in a competitive market of quality games by quality developers.

...a man can dream. Also, aren't the indie fanboys supposed to be the hipsters?

 

[Shadowsole]

Though I don't blame casual gamers for that, I blame raving morons.

That's one of the more extreme examples off the top of my head. Unfortunately most people between the age of 20-30 in my area are complete, raving idiots and that seems to be the popular thing right now. If you have to stop shooting something for more than 30 seconds to listen to someone talking or, by God, if you have to READ to progress, it's not worth a second glance.
I've actually had a complete stranger complain to me that the first 5 minute of MW2 was "so lame because that sergeant dude talked for too long." Then upon seeing me playing Disgaea on my PSP, he started to flip out because it was turn based and that turn based combat is bad because the "developers were too lazy to put real time combat in." I was utterly speechless.
I know that not all gamers are like this, I just wish that this vocal few didn't force their views on me so aggressively.

YES THAT!

I Get the same things from hardcore gamers

Now i don't play halo because fps have never appealled to me but I don't like being told i'm ruinning the industry because i play casual games (even my love foor FFXIII gets me hate.)

There are vocal people on both sides.
Those are who i'm complaining about

 

[moretimethansense]

Though I don't blame casual gamers for that, I blame raving morons.

That's one of the more extreme examples off the top of my head. Unfortunately most people between the age of 20-30 in my area are complete, raving idiots and that seems to be the popular thing right now. If you have to stop shooting something for more than 30 seconds to listen to someone talking or, by God, if you have to READ to progress, it's not worth a second glance.
I've actually had a complete stranger complain to me that the first 5 minute of MW2 was "so lame because that sergeant dude talked for too long." Then upon seeing me playing Disgaea on my PSP, he started to flip out because it was turn based and that turn based combat is bad because the "developers were too lazy to put real time combat in." I was utterly speechless.
I know that not all gamers are like this, I just wish that this vocal few didn't force their views on me so aggressively.

I don't like to break this out except for extreme circumstanses but...

Spoiler

Sometimes I forget just how stupid people can be, there's a kid that lives near me that comes round to borrow my consoles(read: play on), he's an idiot, he honestly claims that Mirrors Edge would be better if you played as a male charecter, constantly proclaims either Halo or Modern Warfare are the greatest games of all time, constantly talks obsenities under his breath at the telly, walks off of clifs, skips any cut scene longer than about a minuite long and refuses to read the control instructions that pop up on the screen while asking me how to do anything, and I'd STILL rather deal with that for a week non-stop than put up with that idiot for more than five minuites.

At least my idiot doesn't randomly bash my RPG habits and will give them a go, even if he is totally clueless.

YES THAT!

I Get the same things from hardcore gamers

Now i don't play halo because fps have never appealled to me but I don't like being told i'm ruinning the industry because i play casual games (even my love foor FFXIII gets me hate.)

There are vocal people on both sides.
Those are who i'm complaining about

I'm actually willing to bet that it's mostly the same group we are dealing with here, there's a rather large group of idiots that declare themselves "hardcore" for only playing Halo, Modern Warfare or the like, pfft hardcore, if even one of those fools could name the konami code I'd be fucking amazed.

Though I'm willing to bet much of the XIII hate is from fans of the older Final Fantasies, that fanbase tends toward the nuts, I personally refrain from bashing XIII as I haven't played it but I will rage forever about XII, we all have that one FF that makes us see red.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Not really, OP. Hardcore gamers do not sit around and claim that they 'heard of a game way before it was cool.' Hardcore gamers are the people who want a challenge and buy the games that give them one. They're also the long time gamers and buy generally everything good. They don't gain life points by hearing of games before other people, in fact, they generally want everybody to play their games, so they can be sequeled. If they were hipsters, they'd never leave the XBLA Indie section.