Have Colleges Become "No Adult Zones"?

[Pseudonym]

Is this a US-only thing? It sounds like a US thing.

That's what I was thinking. While we are getting more uptight with alcohol and drugs where I live too, it is still thankfully nowhere near US levels. Teachers of mine full of classes of 18 year olds happily let everyone know what brand of beer they liked and the bar was considered a good place for students and staff to intermingle.

Honestly, I'm taking any news stories about college campuses with a grain of salt until people stop misusing the term safe spaces and stop blowing every story out of proportion

That's the second thing I was thinking. I wouldn't be alltogether surprised if it turned out that there is more to this story in some way and that one guy drinking a beer which he legally can do and which makes sense given the occasion isn't the only reason for doing this.

This is relevant

Uhuh, how bad of universities not to teach students their role in our modern pecking order. Next thing students start thinking that the treatment of employees at mcdonalds isn't a normal way of dealing with people. I find it hilarious how universities are one the one hand accused of indoctrinating their students, of not allowing free speech and what have you, but on the other hand are accused of making their students a little bit too self aware and a little bit too subversive. How can they be good exploited corporate drones this way? In fact, judging by all the complaints about it, I think colleges are playing their part in providing alternative voices just fine.

Now besides all that, I was under the foolish impressions that the point of higher education was to learn and research the subject matter of your major, and that 'growing as a person' really was a secondary concern from the educators point of view. But this video thought me that the subject matter of your courses is pretty much drarfed in importance by being thought how to do what you are told and how not to get in the way too much. Having now learned that, I propose that we stop sending young people to colleges alltogether and just send them to militairy training for some years, full metal jacket style. That'll really build charactar. The sad thing is, I have met people who actually believe things like that.

 

[MeatMachine]

I honestly think its getting better. There are a lot of stories that are still coming about about the creepy indoctrination going on in universities, but I think it has hit its peak and is beginning to shift in the other direction.

Anecdotally, I was actually relieved that my research project on white nationalism didn't get me into hot water. Made more than a few people uncomfortable, but I was quite surprised to see how many students and teachers were actually really interested to hear about my project's breakdown of a set of groups that are almost universally reviled.

 

[Bobular]

I find it weird that American college is thought of as being for teaching people life lessons, broadening horizons and progressive views and things of that nature.

When I went to university in England I went for the expressed reason of getting a degree in Physics so I could do physics things as my job. The only reason a university education should broaden your horizons is because you meat other students from all over the country/world that challenge your perceptions, but that isn't the responsibility of the university.

I just think too many people are seeing the role of university wrong.

 

[RaikuFA]

I find it weird that American college is thought of as being for teaching people life lessons, broadening horizons and progressive views and things of that nature.

When I went to university in England I went for the expressed reason of getting a degree in Physics so I could do physics things as my job. The only reason a university education should broaden your horizons is because you meat other students from all over the country/world that challenge your perceptions, but that isn't the responsibility of the university.

I just think too many people are seeing the role of university wrong.

It's not even that anymore. It's more "learn to hate people who don't align with your worldviews 100%" a pretty useless skill. Which is why I never went. That and uni professors can throw you out of the class for wearing the wrong colored shirt and all that money is gone.

 

[Dizchu]

All this "anti-safe space" stuff that I keep hearing seems to mostly be coming from people that come from more insular communities (or even better, from people that get all of their information from the internet). Of course the idea of a "safe space" would sound silly to someone who doesn't get treated harshly in their communities for things they can't control, or people who revel in animosity (the "hey I'm a politically incorrect asshole, check me out" types).

Also it's funny that the same people who purport to be "anti-authoritarian" and are strongly opposed to outside influences calling the shots in their communities are also opposed to democratic efforts made by students to look after each other.

I find it weird that American college is thought of as being for teaching people life lessons, broadening horizons and progressive views and things of that nature.

When I went to university in England I went for the expressed reason of getting a degree in Physics so I could do physics things as my job. The only reason a university education should broaden your horizons is because you meat other students from all over the country/world that challenge your perceptions, but that isn't the responsibility of the university.

I just think too many people are seeing the role of university wrong.

I learned a lot of life skills at university because it was opportunity to get out of the shitty small-town environment I had grown up in. I was in an environment with people my own age who were enthusiastic about the subject they were studying rather than an environment where people are either middle-aged rugby fans or neglected teenage "chavs" who had no ambitions beyond getting wasted on Lambrini in the park.

The only time stuff like "diversity" was ever mentioned was when we were given guidelines at the start of the year saying that homophobia, racism, sexism and transphobia wouldn't be allowed on campus. Which being being the obvious thing to do is actually a great standard. I'd rather study in a place that was accepting towards different people than one where hostility towards certain groups would go unchallenged.

 

[Bobular]

I find it weird that American college is thought of as being for teaching people life lessons, broadening horizons and progressive views and things of that nature.

When I went to university in England I went for the expressed reason of getting a degree in Physics so I could do physics things as my job. The only reason a university education should broaden your horizons is because you meat other students from all over the country/world that challenge your perceptions, but that isn't the responsibility of the university.

I just think too many people are seeing the role of university wrong.

I learned a lot of life skills at university because it was opportunity to get out of the shitty small-town environment I had grown up in. I was in an environment with people my own age who were enthusiastic about the subject they were studying rather than an environment where people are either middle-aged rugby fans or neglected teenage "chavs" who had no ambitions beyond getting wasted on Lambrini in the park.

The only time stuff like "diversity" was ever mentioned was when we were given guidelines at the start of the year saying that homophobia, racism, sexism and transphobia wouldn't be allowed on campus. Which being being the obvious thing to do is actually a great standard. I'd rather study in a place that was accepting towards different people than one where hostility towards certain groups would go unchallenged.

That's what I mean, uni is a good place for people to encounter new ways of life outside of their normal community, but I think that should happen organically and not be something forced by the university its self beyond the 'don't be a dick to others' rules.

The university should be educating you academically, your interaction with other students should be educating you socially (One of the reasons I'm against religious schools of any kind as I think they keep people in their own circles).

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Honestly, I'm taking any news stories about college campuses with a grain of salt until people stop misusing the term safe spaces and stop blowing every story out of proportion

Or acting like individual college campus stupidity is somehow federal law all over the land.

 

[RaikuFA]

This is relevant

Ah yes, the alienating nature of Fast Food service work. Clearly, this is the social ideal.

And seriously, I've worked in a kitchen, it did not help me work with my anxiety. It taught me all the worst ways to just bury it, deep, deep down, and feed off of my high stress levels to work harder by torturing myself for every mistake I made. Then I went home and hid in my room for hours until my nerves calmed to the point that I could human again, at which point I'd eat two things of Graham crackers and go to sleep. What a great way to handle stress. So good. So healthy.

The proper way to deal with anxiety is not to just dwell in it like some kind of crazy person. That will fucking kill you. If you have an issue with anxiety, find somebody else, get their help. You are not reacting correctly and need someone else's input, someone else's help.

PragerU is shit. I have no problem with you for posting it or anything, I just really hate that channel.

I worked in retail for about 10 years. It was so stressful. They expect you to do so much for so little pay. Deal with people who expect everything for free.

I know how you feel and I seriously think everyone should work retail /food service even just for a month.

 

[bdeamon]

I'm in college (Penn State) and I have been to other schools along the east coast. I can say that most of these stories are either exaggerated or just false. If I had to guess (educated opinion) they are made up to comfort the Gen X-ers, Baby Boomers and people who don't pursue higher education for whatever reason. The world, specifically social politics, is constantly changing and becoming more complicated, so simplifying speech and calling the people who are changing the rules wrong makes people outside the loop feel better. Just do research beyond opinion pieces and blogs, and consider the idea that some of these things happen for a reason that you might have difficulty understanding.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

Having read all 3 of the articles on this I can't see anything about it being due to...whatever the fuck OP is insinuating.

From: http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2016/09/why_was_rutgers_ad_pat_hobbs_caught_drinking_a_bee.html

School officials said the first tailgate for the Sept. 10 Howard game drew between 500 to 800 students. But after word spread on various social media streams, last Saturday's tailgate drew between 2,500 to 3,000 students.

Kenneth Cop, the chief of Rutgers University Police, said the environment was relatively calm and his department ended up issuing two citations apiece to a total of four people in the hours leading up to the 12 p.m. kickoff.

Hobbs said he arrived just as the Rutgers police were issuing tickets and he got the sense that the crowd was getting out of control. Hobbs stood on top of a riser, grabbed a microphone to address the crowd and, according to multiple witnesses, the Rutgers AD helped control the situation by lauding the Rutgers Police Department and calling for the students to cheer them.

Looks like it got a big crowd and might be difficult to control and they decided they didn't want to deal with the hassle.

 

[Catnip1024]

This is an American thing, isn't it... Because most Universities are open to adult post-graduates and the like, and a lot of University clubs are even open to complete outsiders so long as they pay up.

All this "anti-safe space" stuff that I keep hearing seems to mostly be coming from people that come from more insular communities (or even better, from people that get all of their information from the internet). Of course the idea of a "safe space" would sound silly to someone who doesn't get treated harshly in their communities for things they can't control, or people who revel in animosity (the "hey I'm a politically incorrect asshole, check me out" types).

Also it's funny that the same people who purport to be "anti-authoritarian" and are strongly opposed to outside influences calling the shots in their communities are also opposed to democratic efforts made by students to look after each other.

The safe space thing is overblown in certain media outlets, but there are an increasing number of irrational decisions by certain university / student bodies which people can legitimately complain about (banning certain controversial speakers but not others, allowing a womens week but not a mens week).

And is it really funny that "anti-authoritarian" people are opposed to another form of authority? Because as soon as people unionise, democratic or not, that is another form of authority.

Personally, none of this ever affected me. I did an Engineering degree, I didn't have the time or inclination to debate the pros and cons of speakers who I had no intention of seeing being allowed to speak. Springs and bearings tend to be non-controversial topics.

 

[Dizchu]

And is it really funny that "anti-authoritarian" people are opposed to another form of authority? Because as soon as people unionise, democratic or not, that is another form of authority.

Well what people usually mean by "authoritarian" is an individual or group that considers itself above everyone else and has the ability to make decisions on their behalf, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Their authority can't be challenged and usually the interests of those under their authority aren't taken into consideration. If elected representatives are the "authority" that's a lot different. All academia is based on authority structures, that's why people go to them in the first place (ultimately we want specialists to teach us and we want the institutions to give us qualifications). I don't see how accommodating students "crosses the line".

 

[Catnip1024]

Well what people usually mean by "authoritarian" is an individual or group that considers itself above everyone else and has the ability to make decisions on their behalf, regardless of their feelings on the matter. Their authority can't be challenged and usually the interests of those under their authority aren't taken into consideration. If elected representatives are the "authority" that's a lot different. All academia is based on authority structures, that's why people go to them in the first place (ultimately we want specialists to teach us and we want the institutions to give us qualifications). I don't see how accommodating students "crosses the line".

There is a world of difference between wanting to consult / receive learning from a technical authority (professors, etc) and wanting to be dictated to in an almost legislative way by elected members of a body that you may or may not have had a choice in joining. If your viewpoint is different to that of the majority of the electorate, it doesn't matter that it is feasibly possible to challenge the authority, it remains practically impossible.

And in a lot of these contentious issues, it is impossible to cater for the needs of the entire electorate: for some, it is in their interest to receive contentious ideas and contest them. Others may not appreciate them so much. My personal viewpoint is that as long as there is no risk of the speaker propagating violence or crime, they should be free to speak, and those who dislike their viewpoint are free to listen / debate the point or not as they choose. Any dictates beyond that step away from protecting the students and into the realm of preventing open debate and enforcing group think. Paid speakers is a different matter, of course, and one in which refusal is more understandable.

 

[KissingSunlight]

And yet this story had nothing at all to do with safe spaces and you STILL made it about them

The facts of this story: an athletic department sponsored tailgate area was temporarily shut down by the school board after the athletic director was filmed chugging a beer on stage while making a speech. The students disagree with the decision and are signing a petition to reinstate it.

What you posted: COLLEGE PARTY GETS SHUT DOWN AFTER ADULT SHARES BEER WITH STUDENTS. HAVE SAFE SPACES GONE TOO FAR? ARE COLLEGES BECOMING *ADULT FREE ZONES*? THIS IS ALL THE STUDENTS FAULT AND IT'S TIME WE DID SOMETHING.


Take your sensationalist shill shit elsewhere

Thank you for demonstrating how easily triggered Pro-Safe Spacers are.

I off-handily remarked about safe spaces, because that is another example of how colleges and universities baby college students.

Also, reread my OP again. I stated we should start focusing some ire about college administrators babying college students.

 

[Dizchu]

snip

The problem is that people are very vague about what constitutes a "safe space". With some exceptions I would be against banning speakers from debates, but that's called "no-platforming" rather than a "safe space". "Safe spaces" usually refer to spaces where those that are vulnerable can hang out without worrying about hostility, I highly endorse this. This is why whenever "safe spaces" come up I have to know exactly what's being discussed, because people do tend to conflate them with general censorship.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

I think it's time we should focus some of the ire on college and university administrators who keep insisting that students should be treated like a baby. It's suppose to be a place where young adults learn skills that they will need in the real world, not safe spaces. Definitely not to protect them from having a beer with someone older than they are.

If the event is officially sponsored by their athletics department and on university ground then there's going to be a lot of organising they have to do. You can't just shove 3000 drunk 18-21 year olds into a car park and let them have at it. You have to put effort into an event like that. If it's expanded from 5-800 to 2500-3000, to whatever it's going to be next time, then that's going to be a serious headache. There are very valid and expensive safety concerns and laws covering events, especially of that size. If anything goes wrong, they are in the shit. You can argue that if it's that popular then maybe they should get their asses in gear and put some effort and money into organising it properly, but it's hardly "babying" to fuck it all off. Which they are not doing completely...

http://www.dailytargum.com/article/2016/09/hobbs-determined-to-address-the-alley-concerns-find-solution

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/rutu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/HL_Letter_9_21_16.pdf

As far as the Athletics Director goes, if he's there in an official capacity then he's "on duty", accepting a beer from a bunch of people that he's trying to keep under control is not exactly professional.

I mean, you may well be right in your overall point, but I don't think that this is an example of it.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

Jesus, when I went to the local university (to visit, I was never a Uni student) there was a fucking student only pub. This is just absurd to me.

 

[KissingSunlight]

I think it's time we should focus some of the ire on college and university administrators who keep insisting that students should be treated like a baby. It's suppose to be a place where young adults learn skills that they will need in the real world, not safe spaces. Definitely not to protect them from having a beer with someone older than they are.

If the event is officially sponsored by their athletics department and on university ground then there's going to be a lot of organising they have to do. You can't just shove 3000 drunk 18-21 year olds into a car park and let them have at it. You have to put effort into an event like that. If it's expanded from 5-800 to 2500-3000, to whatever it's going to be next time, then that's going to be a serious headache. There are very valid and expensive safety concerns and laws covering events, especially of that size. If anything goes wrong, they are in the shit. You can argue that if it's that popular then maybe they should get their asses in gear and put some effort and money into organising it properly, but it's hardly "babying" to fuck it all off. Which they are not doing completely...

http://www.dailytargum.com/article/2016/09/hobbs-determined-to-address-the-alley-concerns-find-solution

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/rutu/genrel/auto_pdf/2016-17/misc_non_event/HL_Letter_9_21_16.pdf

As far as the Athletics Director goes, if he's there in an official capacity then he's "on duty", accepting a beer from a bunch of people that he's trying to keep under control is not exactly professional.

I mean, you may well be right in your overall point, but I don't think that this is an example of it.

If they close it and specifically said it was about crowd size. There would be nothing to talk about. However, they did this after the video of the AD drinking on stage in front of students became viral. So, to most reasonable people, Rutgers shut down the tailgate because of the video. Instead of being concerned about crowd size.

 

[Zykon TheLich_v1legacy]

If they close it and specifically said it was about crowd size. There would be nothing to talk about. However, they did this after the video of the AD drinking on stage in front of students became viral. So, to most reasonable people, Rutgers shut down the tailgate because of the video. Instead of being concerned about crowd size.

The video of one of their on duty officials drinking with students probably isn't helpful from a PR POV, I'm sure it had some influence, but hardly the sole reason. They sited safety concerns, and since then they have specifically said there were concerns about capacity i.e. the size of the venue vs the number of attendees, services and alcohol consumption. All safety concerns.

Additional:
It's slightly suspicious that the one article that insinuates that New Brunswick Today show airing the video is the thing that lead to the university cancelling the event, is on the New Brunswick Today website.
Seeing as the game was on Saturday the 17th and the announcement of it's cancellation was made on Tuesday 20th I don't really think you can conclude that it was the videos that caused the problem. It's not as if they let it hang for ages and then suddenly did a U-turn once the video came out. Event happens on the 17th, people don't even get back to work until the Monday and then they decide by Tuesday evening? That's pretty swift. Video probably sped up the decision making process, but it hardly shows that...well, I'm not even sure what it is that you are saying about this...