Have gamers of today become prima donnas?

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

In light of the recent 'feedback' about Dragon Age 2... I mean, it's ridiculous seeing how many people complain about it. You know what? I really enjoyed the game. It wasn't perfect, but nothing is. I liked the gameplay a lot better than DAO. The storyline may not have been as epic, but it was still good. It had some things that were better than DAO, it had some things that weren't as good. But the kind of negative feedback that it's getting is completely unjustified. I think people need to stop being so whiny about this stuff, and just enjoy it, because it IS a very good game.

Now, this thread isn't just about Dragon Age 2. I've been a big fan of Mortal Kombat for many years. And recently, a LOT of storyline details have leaked. Including the characters' endings. And the kind of crap I heard, like, people saying that they should be firing their writer, and how it completely sucks ass. As much as I hate spoilers, I couldn't help but check them out, and it wasn't that big of a deal. The endings for each character weren't spectacular, but they were good. I honestly don't know what people were expecting.

I can't say that I'm absolved of this either. I myself used to be the biggest fan of Resident Evil, and I personally feel like Resident Evil 4 completely destroyed any integrity that the storyline once had. And yes, I eagerly turned my back on the series.

Back in the late 90's, early 2000s, when story based games were becoming increasingly popular, I didn't see half as many complaints (granted forums weren't as popular back then), but even as we remember these games, I don't hear anyone complaining. And it's not like those times were perfect either. Looking back on certain sequels like Onimusha 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, Resident Evil Code Veronica etc. They made some TERRIBLE choices with certain things in those games. Yeah, we get the odd complaint here and there, but I don't see anyone saying, "That game ruined the series for me, the company sold out," or whatever. Yes, those people do exist, but they're in a vast minority. Whereas, I haven't seen so many people massively gathered to complain about a game like Dragon Age 2, or Mortal Kombat, and its storyline.

Have we all just become overly picky prima donnas who focus on everything negative, instead of embracing all the positive things about the games (specifically sequels) that are brought to us?

 

[darth.pixie]

Not really.

Consider this, when you go and pay for a product you expect your money's worth. You don't buy a car and say "oh this is lacking, and this and this, but hey...the air conditioner is the best"

You're forgetting that gamers, while fans and supporters and whatever, are consumers first. They purchase with hard earned cash and want something that's correctly advertised or at least something that satisfies.

Not just with those franchises but with all of them because if say Valve released a very bad Portal that is completely different from the original you bet that people are going to be pissed. (not saying it will happen and I wish it won't).

 

[TheHaunted]

You forgot the r in prima donna in your thread title.
I think we haven't become prima donnas, it's that our standards for games coming out now is higher because developers should have had enough time to get better at game making. When story based games first started becoming popular, things were more experimental so the public was more willing to be forgiving to these games when they screwed things up. Now that we're in the 2010s, we expect games to push things along better, which is why we explode so easily on things like Dragon Age 2 and Mortal Kombat. To focus on a more concrete point, we have the idea that sequels should be better then the original in every way. That's why we complain so much about the sequel's faults rather then the good parts, we expected that the sequel would have better parts so it's not really necessary to talk about them.

 

[Fiz_The_Toaster]

I wouldn't call our fellow gamers prima donnas, but I've noticed fans of series will call foul if their expectations of a game they are interested in have not been met. However, people who happen to come across it for the first time don't have that issue, but will probably sympathize with the fans, but that won't affect their enjoyment of the game.

I liked FFXIII but a lot of the fans I've met or talked to wanted to tar and feather the developers for that 'travesty', but I can see where they are going, but I don't really care because I personally enjoyed it.

I will admit I have cried foul myself over a game franchise I love so dearly, Silent Hill, and I'm pissed at what they've done with it. If I think about it long enough I do realize that creating something in that world may or may not be popular and they give it a try anyways to appeal to people outside of the fan base. Unfortunately you quite possibly alienate them while bringing in new fans, so all in all fans are not easily pleased.

That's not to say the developers don't share some of that blame, but seeing as I don't know what goes on behind the scenes when they made the game I can't say too much.

 

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

(fixed the title)

But how can we quantify "better" if it's different. Yes, Dragon Age 2 is different in many ways from Dragon Age Origins, but why is that such a bad thing? It's still a great game, long action RPG which is focused heavily on the storyline. Just because the gameplay isn't carbon copy of its predecessor, doesn't make it worse.
And if it was, how many people would complain that it "feels like an expansion pack"? We've heard this about Fallout: New Vegas.
The thing is, it's not like Dragon Age 2 did something to ruin our perception of what the Dragon Age universe is, did it? It's not like there were aliens, or we find out that everyone hates all the Grey Wardens now, or something that made it jump the shark.

But even if Dragon Age 2 is underwhelming, it's not "TERRIBLE" like people say it is.

As for Mortal Kombat, as a fan, I can honestly say that I have no idea what people are complaining about. I've been a fan of it since I was 7 years old, and the past 4 games had a ton more storyline problems than this new one.
But whether people like or dislike it, I honestly don't see how the changes they made equate to "Bioware officially sucking because they've become EA now."

@Fiz_The_Toaster: I'm a huge fan of Silent Hill as well. But Silent Hill is a different case entirely. It's been bounced around from one developer to another for years. And although I think the past few games had been underwhelming, I wouldn't call them BAD. I mean, Origins was good as far as "having a Silent Hill game on the go" went. And Homecoming, well, again, it wasn't great. But it had its good points, and the storyline (the characters specifically) were enjoyable. And Shattered Memories, that was an experimental title. It was going to be different. They tried something new, and in terms of horror, they didn't succeed, but it was still a good try. And plus it's not like it's even in the same canon. This new Silent Hill looks very promising, though. I hope it's actually scary.

I think maybe people rely too much on "Status Quo" where it's like, "This should only be this way, and should never be any other way," and then get disappointed when something changes dramatically. It's like, Lost, when in every season, they'd kill off someone from the main cast, and it's like, "I can't believe you just killed him/her! They were important to the plot!" But in the end, it's brave, and ultimately, I commend them for doing things like that. As long as it doesn't drastically change our perception of that particular artificial universe.

 

[ultrachicken]

But even if Dragon Age 2 is underwhelming, it's not "TERRIBLE" like people say it is.

There lies the problem. Opinions are just that, opinions. They are entirely subjective. Someone who says that they think DA2 is terrible is just as justified as you saying that it's merely underwhelming.

 

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

There lies the problem. Opinions are just that, opinions. They are entirely subjective. Someone who says that they think DA2 is terrible is just as justified as you saying that it's merely underwhelming.

But SO many people? I mean, that's ridiculous. Fact: Dragon Age 2 is a good game. They may not have liked the changes in it, and that's understandable. But it is long, it has a solid storyline without any noticable plot holes, and the gameplay is pretty polished, especially for an RPG and graphics that were a major improvement over the first one. You can hate it, but that doesn't justify user reviews that give it a 1/10.

Like I said, Resident Evil 4 is my single most hated game of all time. But I'm not gonna be a troll and say, "It's a crappy game," because I know that it's a solid action horror title, with polished gameplay, and great graphics. I absolutely hate it, but it's not a bad game.

 

[Rayne870]

Not really.

Consider this, when you go and pay for a product you expect your money's worth. You don't buy a car and say "oh this is lacking, and this and this, but hey...the air conditioner is the best"

You're forgetting that gamers, while fans and supporters and whatever, are consumers first. They purchase with hard earned cash and want something that's correctly advertised or at least something that satisfies.

Not just with those franchises but with all of them because if say Valve released a very bad Portal that is completely different from the original you bet that people are going to be pissed. (not saying it will happen and I wish it won't).

Cars don't exactly have plot that is open to interpretation but your model works fantastically for controls, graphics, bugs and such.

I do think a lot of gamers don't realize that there are parts of a game that are not going to be what the gamer want's but what the developer wants to convey in a plot.

Taking some of the complaints I have heard/seen people don't like the plot of Dragon Age 2, Now I am not totally through it yet, but I am on the third act and around 35 hours in. While the war with the Qunari and essentially civil war between mages and templars may not be as "exciting" as an apocalyptic event such as the Blight in DA:O it is very well conveyed and well written.

As are the characters. I did get suckered in by one and then totally taken advantage of both sexually and then through being deserted for her own personal goals, I hated another character for her immaturity naivete and dabbling in blood magic which as far as I can tell will only end in bad things. I hate Fenris because I see him as damaged and playing on it too much.

Conversely I there are characters I feel very close to, like Anders (my LI for my female Hawke), and I can see the friendship between my Hawke, Varric and Averline building and maturing in a way that is very believable to me.

The weird thing is the complaint I have seen people issue about the characters is that if they don't like them they are poorly written. The way I see it I hate so many of the characters because they are well written. If I liked every single character it would be a little like a Mary Sue complex.

While it isn't special for characters to be written so that they are loved or hated it is a little special that my girlfriend has different likes and dislikes in characters, and that through the game both of our feelings towards characters have changed by being reversed or reinforced. I don't want to spoil anything in the forum but you can pm me if you are curious as to what those changes were for me.

When it comes to Graphics, some games do things differently, as long as I can tell what the object is that I am looking at I can generally accept the graphics. For 60 bucks I expect something to look at least a little better than the MGS3 cut-scenes. When it comes too attempting different styles like Borderlands and Valkiria Chronicles far too many people scoff at the idea of trying something different artistically.


Putting plot and style stuff aside we can move to mechanics, I'm not going to get into it too much but I think the following conveys a bit of the idea.

Consider what impact infinite ammo would have had on Mass Effect 2, I would just spam my gun and ignore most of the tactics as I would have no concern for my valuable sniper ammo.

Consider how health packs would have fit into Gears of War...I can't figure that one out at all.

If we aren't prima donnas yet it is very close and pretty easy to see as the trend of gamers bombing game reviews with 0's grows. So I think we need to put in a little forgiveness and realize the games aren't our creations and while we can give feedback many of the decisions are best left in the hands of developers as we don't understand the full idea of what we "want" from a game.

note: this written on approximately the 45th hour of being awake after a 2 hour sleep. However it is all up for discussion

 

[Mr Pantomime]

What really irks me about thus whole Dragon Age 2 thing is that DA2 is a different game. Its not an addon or expansion, its an entirely different game.

And while people tend to expect a sequel to be similar, it doesnt have to be. The developers can change it if they want, and they dont take those choices lightly. I reallly wish people would stop complaining, acknowledge they didnt like the sequel, and look a bit warily at the next installment, but look into it nonetheless.

It also helps to play the goddamn demo.

 

[Vault101]

Have we all just become overly picky prima donnas who focus on everything negative, instead of embracing all the positive things about the games (specifically sequels) that are brought to us?

Hey we just have opnions and a place to express them,

if people who were really into fishing also spent alot of time of webistes and forums like this then youd get the exact same thing, speculation, Bitching predictions arguments its jsut human nature and I dont think its unique to gamers

that said people get pretty bitchey about their presious RPG elements

 

[NeutralDrow]

I rather consider them so. But then, I'm also quite mild-mannered.

 

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

Hey we just have opnions and a place to express them,

if people who were really into fishing also spent alot of time of webistes and forums like this then youd get the exact same thing, speculation, Bitching predictions arguments its jsut human nature and I dont think its unique to gamers

that said people get pretty bitchey about their presious RPG elements

Sure, people have the right to express their opinions. But if they weren't such prima donnas, then we'd have just as many, "Dragon Age 2 is the best" threads as we have, "Dragon Age 2 sucks" threads. And let's face it, there's no balance there whatsoever.

Maybe people should just stop having such ridiculous expectations. For example, let's say I loved Mass Effect 1, my expectatiosn for Mass Effect 2 would be that it's a shooter RPG heavily rooted in storyline, with enjoyable characters and solid gameplay that's familiar, but does things a little tighter than the previous game. And that's exactly what it is. Once you start having expectations on what the storyline will be, chances are, you're gonna be disappointed, because there are many ways it could go. Who the hell knew that Shepard would get blown out of the sky at the beginning of ME2 and join Cerberus?

Same with DA2, like I said, it did nothing to change how we view the Dragon Age universe, other than change the design of the Qunari, which might be inconsistent, but it's ONE thing. Beyond that, there shouldn't be any expectations of the plot. It could be anything. Does EVERY Dragon Age game need to have 10 different origin stories? Naw, this is a different story entirely, and it's about this character Hawke. And it's good. That's why it's not called "Dragon Age Origins 2".

But more than that. I think that once people read that there wouldn't be many different origin stories, and all that, they automatically shot this game down and said, "It's gonna suck," which is exactly what my friend did. To his defense, he's actually playing and enjoying it now. But I think that people form their opinions WAY before actually playing these games.

Same with Mortal Kombat, the plot of this one is that it's an alternate take on the original storyline, like a change in the time and space continuum. And that's exactly what it is. It's basically a reimagining of the original trilogy. So just from the premise, it could go ANY way possible. And those endings are ALL "What if" scenarios. "What if so and so wins," and if they don't, then the ending simply doesn't happen. They should just get over it. You have no idea how many people on the mortalkombatonline.com forums are bitching about how they didn't like the endings and because of that, will never play another MK game again. And we don't even know if those endings are final. This is a leak that someone got from hacking the demo. They could be rewriting them as we speak. If that's not being a prima donna, I don't know what is.

 

[DolorousEdd]

Actually, I'm often aware of this situation. But I'm critical about all my entertainment. If I would compare the writing and style of DA2 to a movie script or novel I would like, it just doesn't measure up. And I'm not just some snob. But some aspects of the style of this game or the cheap sexual banter that is supposed to count as "witty" or the cheesy, straightforward emotions (like "this is unjust!" or "think of the children!!") are just plain pathetic. It's shallow and I don't think any of the developers broke a sweat in the creation of this game (not more than is normally required in such a work process).

 

[DeathTahKid]

For the fact that people hold a sequels higher on the list then games that are not sequels. But I've played games and there sequels that "sucked". Some I liked and some I didn't. The biggest problem with people is that they expect the best EVERYTIME they spend there money on a game. It doesn't happen, but most people go on to overlook the positives when there is one bad aspect. I will give credit. A LOT of games lately have been under par, but there have been some games that something was wrong at the beginning and they throw up there hands saying "THIS SUCKS!!!" But hey "It also helps to play the goddamn demo." Ya DAMN RIGHT.

 

[Deskimus Prime]

If so, I honestly can't see this being a bad thing. If we as a whole become a picky, difficult to please bunch of prima donnas, then developers are gonna have to start shaping up and putting in the extra mile. Optimistically, it'd mean less tired rehashes of standard gaming cliches, less godawful movie tie-ins, and hopefully an improvement to game quality and design as a while.

Pessimistically, it'd mean they'd be cranking out the exact same games every time, as everyone would be too afraid of failure to try anything new...but if we're picky enough about cookie-cutter clones/sequels, then hopefully the industry will take the hint. The "average joe movie watcher" might hate on movie snobs, but those guys are the reason we *have* the good arty films; when they complain loudly enough about the state of things, eventually the industry starts to take notice...if only to shut them up.

There's been a lot of controversy lately on the Escapist over a couple highly anticipated games getting less than expected reviews, and while I'm gonna skip over that hornet's nest entirely, it seems like people are taking notice that the quality and the hype don't match up. People seem to be placing a lot more value on reviews, and not just specific ones, but things like Metacritic. With games being 60$ a pop these days (for us North Americans at least), you want to make sure you're making a good investment.

So yeah. Be picky. Be loud, be whiny, be the proverbial squeaky wheel. You'll probably attract hate faster than that Rebecca Black abomination, but hey. If it gets devs to amp it up, so to speak, then consider yourself a gaming martyr.

 

[Silent Biohazard Solid]

Actually, I'm often self-aware about this circumstance. But I'm critical about all my entertainment. If I would compare the writing and style of DA2 to a movie script or novel I would like, it just doesn't measure up. And I'm not just some snob. But some aspects of the style of this game or the cheap sexual banter that is supposed to count as "witty" or the cheesy, straightforward emotions (like "this is unjust!" or "think of the children!!") are just plain pathetic. It's shallow and I don't think any of the developers broke a sweat in the creation of this game (not more than is normally required in such a work process).

I think it was written as well as any Bioware game. Okay, so instead of choosing whole statements, it's done Mass Effect style, frankly, I like that style better. You choose a general thought, and the character speaks it more freely.

And what about the fact that the more you choose a certain response type, the more your character will automatically respond like that? For example, if you keep choosing the smart ass comments, then during those bits of dialogue when your character has a default bit of dialogue. I kept choosing the bottom choices, and my character started giving hard ass remarks by default. I'm sorry, but that's pretty awesome, and definitely not shallow.

If so, I honestly can't see this being a bad thing. If we as a whole become a picky, difficult to please bunch of prima donnas, then developers are gonna have to start shaping up and putting in the extra mile.

But consider this. What if as a result of this anti-Dragon Age 2 (or any other game) outcry, the game ended up flopping? Everyone's like, "Well, if this game sucks, then why should I support EA, if they're Satan?" And if that happens, they could simply go, "Well, this franchise has failed, I guess making a sequel won't be profitable," and now, we don't get no Dragon Age 3. How is that a good thing?
The more people say, "This game sucks," the more other people will say, "I won't buy it," or "I'll just pirate it, since it's not worth my money."

 

[Deskimus Prime]

OBLIGATORY SOCIAL COMMENTARY ADDENDUM: I bet with the internet and TV and video games supposedly killing our attention spans, a lot of people just don't have the patience to sit through many games that start off slow or have frustrating parts. So you get people who throw down the controller and quit less than half an hour in, give the game a >5.0, and complain about it. Perfect pacing is ideal but incredibly rare, and I think Portal might've spoiled me on it...then again, I grew up on turn-based CRPGs, so it's pretty rare for me to give up or lose patience with a game.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

The fundamental qualm with Dragon Age 2, and why it has been so heavily criticized, is the series was billed as the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate. Such had been the cornerstone of BioWare's marketing campaign and incidentally they abruptly abandoned this notion and went in a completely alternation direction. This alone will inevitably derive hostility amongst the fanbase because they felt betrayed. With that said, the hatred for DA2 is ridiculously exaggerative, especially on the BioWare's forum, wherein people are actively delighted sales are low, but the game is hardly devoid of egregious blunders a company of BioWare's repute should not commit. These in particular are frequently reused maps, lackluster design structure, a disjointed main plot, excess junk loot due to the inability to equip your party, etc. If you compare what Guild War 2?s city offers to Kirkwall, the chastising is understandably, although your mileage may vary.

Whilst we gamers may adore our favorite developers and specific genres, we are customers before fans, and customers want the best for their dollar. If they feel cheated, they will voice such grievances to any whom will listen. That is not being a prima donna, just a regular individual who wants to be assured their sixty dollars is spent what was promised to them.

 

[Iron Lightning]

Your main gripe seems to be with Dragon Age 2 which I believe got the overwhelming negative response because in many peoples' opinions (mine included) it was an inferior sequel to the original. If it had been called, say, "Comrade Hawke's Adventures in the White City" it probably would've been better received. Videogames are unique in creative media in that their sequels are often better than the originals. Also you have to take into account the influence that Yahtzee, the king of high standards, has on this site.

I feel it's unrealistic to expect as many "DA2 sucks" threads as "DA2 rocks" threads as a lot of people thought the game was inferior to DA:O.

Also, you might want to ask yourself if most gamers being a bit prima-donna-ish is a bad thing.

An audience with high standards will receive higher quality products than an audience with low standards because the minimum quality needed is significantly higher. Having a few prima donnas will encourage the industry to make better games.

 

[Deskimus Prime]

But consider this. What if as a result of this anti-Dragon Age 2 (or any other game) outcry, the game ended up flopping? Everyone's like, "Well, if this game sucks, then why should I support EA, if they're Satan?" And if that happens, they could simply go, "Well, this franchise has failed, I guess making a sequel won't be profitable," and now, we don't get no Dragon Age 3. How is that a good thing?
The more people say, "This game sucks," the more other people will say, "I won't buy it," or "I'll just pirate it, since it's not worth my money."

Ooh, good point. Got a little caught up in my idealism and forgot about pirating. I'd like to think people would use pirating as either a "test drive" to see if a game's worth buying (I'll admit I did that with Dragon Age Origins), but that's pretty naive of me. It's a pretty double-edged sword. I guess the best you could hope for is that a loud minority of people would be complaining, while the quiet majority just bought it anyway. The industries listen to the "feedback" (bitching) of the loud minority and improve on what needs improving, while the quiet majority supports the company anyway because they either enjoy it as is, or can't be bothered to complain about it.