Help me align my moral standards

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

This popped up in my mind after I saw a dicussion in another thread and now I want to know your opinion.

As far as I know:

Piracy is bad.
Murder is bad.
Rape is bad.
Child Rape is bad.
Tax Evasion is bad.
But of course they are not equally bad.

Questions:

Is child rape worse that murder? Why?
Yes? Then how many murders equals one child rape?
No? Then how many child rapes equal one murder?


Think of Nico Bellic (GTA IV) or that moron from Fable. Take the "evil approach" <let's slaughter some innocent civilians just for fun>. The game character (NOT the player, I repeat I'm not talking about the player) has an (almost) unlimited potential to be cold hearted bloody bastard of a murderer. He could do some good but he remains a murderer in the first place (if played in that way) So he is far worse than someone who would rape a 14 year old girl or something, is he not?


[Feel free to add your own details if you think I'm generalizing too much and you want to specify]

 

[Dimitriov]

Just align your morals to mine!

Piracy is fine, but so are the repercussions for piracy
Murder is wrong, unless motivated by revenge! (eye for an eye, not because they finished the milk and left the empty carton in the fridge)
Rape IS bad (Badong even)
Child Rape is the worst (It is not only a violent transgression but a destruction of innocence and future potential)
Tax evasion is bad because it is pathetic (It's only money. you don't support your government? Then be a man and try to overthrow them, not commit fraud)

Murders and rape cannot be equated to each other: how many apples equal the flavour of one orange? (to use a tired cliche)

Also rape is far worse than murder because it is degrading and humiliating. Death is inevitable and even when murdered you can at least die well.

 

[crudus]

I don't think you can quantify it like that. It isn't the amount of "evil" you do; it is the fact that you did an "evil" act that matters in a morality sense(which is what you are going for from what I understand). If you must I am sure you could look up sentencing for each of those charges. I am not going to say "it takes 4 class B Felonies to make an A felony, but it only takes 3 class A Felonies to equal a class S Felony" or something to that effect.

Here is why:

Child Rape is the worst (it is not only a violent transgression but a destruction of innocence and future potential)

Wow, using that logic I can argue murdering a 20-year-old woman is worse than murdering 92-year-old man.

 

[Wuggy]

Murder is wrong, unless motivated by revenge

Yesterday, someone took the last bit off coffee milk at work right before I was going to have some. If I murder him, do you condone?

 

[Dimitriov]

Murder is wrong, unless motivated by revenge

Yesterday, someone took the last bit off coffee milk at work right before I was going to have some. If I murder him, do you condone?

Damn thing posted before I meant to... I have edited it!

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

I don't think you can quantify it like that. If you must I am sure you could look up sentencing for each of those charges. I am not going to say "it takes 4 class B Felonies to make an A felony, but it only takes 3 class A Felonies to equal a class S Felony" or something to that effect.

Here is why:

Child Rape is the worst (it is not only a violent transgression but a destruction of innocence and future potential)

Wow, using that logic I can argue murdering a 20-year-old woman is worse than murdering 92-year-old man.

Yes, agreed and on top of that:
How do you define innocence (it seems most pedophiles say something like "she asked for it, she was behaving like a lewd brat")
How do you define "future potential"?
My 92 year old grandpa could have more future potential than the 20 year old woman who is a drug addict and will get herself an overdose in the next two weeks.

 

[necromanzer52]

Child Rape is the worst (it is not only a violent transgression but a destruction of innocence and future potential)

Wow, using that logic I can argue murdering a 20-year-old woman is worse than murdering 92-year-old man.

Are you saying, it's not?

 

[Dimitriov]

I don't think you can quantify it like that. It isn't the amount of "evil" you do; it is the fact that you did an "evil" act that matters in a morality sense(which is what you are going for from what I understand). If you must I am sure you could look up sentencing for each of those charges. I am not going to say "it takes 4 class B Felonies to make an A felony, but it only takes 3 class A Felonies to equal a class S Felony" or something to that effect.

Here is why:

Child Rape is the worst (it is not only a violent transgression but a destruction of innocence and future potential)

Wow, using that logic I can argue murdering a 20-year-old woman is worse than murdering 92-year-old man.

Welcome to my disturbing world O__o

I would make the addendum that murder is worse when committed against someone notably weaker than oneself.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I disagree with some of your first 5 opening statements.

If we're specifically talking about moral relativity though, you can't attribute a moral value to a concept because it depends on whether it's state-funded, metaphoric or criminalised, before you even get into the identities of victim and coercer.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Sorry, but have you ever worked with sexually abused children? Have you encountered women who have been the victim of rape?

While they definitely have mental scars that will accompany them their whole life, they still have emotions like happiness and experience satisfaction. They can even have fun during sex, I am told.
Someone murdered simply can't. That person is dead, deprived of any possible future.

 

[Dimitriov]

Yes, agreed and on top of that:
How do you define innocence (it seems most pedophiles say something like "she asked for it, she was behaving like a lewd brat")
How do you define "future potential"?
My 92 year old grandpa could have more future potential than the 20 year old woman who is a drug addict and will get herself an overdose in the next two weeks.

Innocence is strangely ephemeral, I would personally hope most people can retain it into their teens but it really can't be determined: either way rape is very wrong.

As for the potential thing... that may be an awkward phrasing on my part (It does not apply to murder in the same way for me though, death is inevitable and I don't think a violent death is necessarily a bad thing). Basically I am saying I think it's worse to totally F*** a person up emotionally before their life has even really started.

 

[Jedoro]

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

EDIT: To clarify, if forced to choose I'd say murder is worse, but I'd sentence someone to death for committing either crime.

 

[ShindoL Shill]

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

but you can justify murder to a court if it was in self-defense. so rape has to be worse than murder, if you can murder someone to defend yourself from rape.
this only counts for justifiable murder, but the fact that you can justify it would make it less immoral in those situations. you can't justify rape.

so, if you can justify it (with agreement from others), it would be moral. lets say you don't have any extra money at a time, and apply for a job video editing. you need some experience but can't buy software. should you pirate it? yes, because that experience could get you a job you really need.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

In my opinion that while rape is horrible, I would rather be raped then killed. If it is worse to get raped then, not meant to be mean in any way, you can kill yourself and not have to face it. Getting raped is possible to get over, getting killed is not.

 

[Dimitriov]

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

but you can justify murder to a court if it was in self-defense. so rape has to be worse than murder, if you can murder someone to defend yourself from rape.

Ah, but killing someone in self defense isn't murder.

 

[Tortilla the Hun]

I'm sure someone would argue that they'd much rather have Alzheimers than worry about something as petty as...whoa, what kinda brothel did I walk into?

 

[Dimitriov]

In my opinion that while rape is horrible, I would rather be raped then killed. If it is worse to get raped then, not meant to be mean in any way, you can kill yourself and not have to face it. Getting raped is possible to get over, getting killed is not.

I would say rape is worse than murder because it is humiliating and degrading, but being raped AND murdered, or dying, is worse still because that is the last thing anyone will remember you for: being raped.

 

[MoD1212]

Wow, using that logic I can argue murdering a 20-year-old woman is worse than murdering 92-year-old man.

isn't that true tho... I mean yes murder is wrong regardless and all that but at 92 years old your already on the way out while as that 20 year old woman still has most of her life yet to go on a possibly do great things.

I'm not trying to be insensitive to elderly people getting killed or any thing, but i feel like there is a definite difference between killing some one at the end of their life and killing some one who is in the middle of living imo

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

[...]
I would say rape is worse than murder because it is humiliating and degrading, but being raped AND murdered, or dying, is worse still because that is the last thing anyone will remember you for: being raped.

There are way more efficents methods to humiliate and degrade you, like bullying, torture and the like. All seem less bad (or stigmatized) than rape. I seriously wonder why.

Now, if you had a father that constanly degraded you because he loved your sibling better (see Lord of the Rings Faramir vs. his brother Boromir) your emotional scars would have been degrading and humiliating and the "best" part, the father didn't even commit a punishable crime according to society/law

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

[sarcasm]After I paid my taxes for the first time, I wasn't the same as well. Something died inside me. I'm sure most of you agree that paying taxes feels like being raped[/sarcasm] Sorry about that, couldn't resist here.

Seriously:
If we assume they are equal, would you imply that 2 murders (in cold blood) are equal to 1 murder? Or on the other hand that 2 murders are worse than one child rape?

 

[Jedoro]

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

but you can justify murder to a court if it was in self-defense. so rape has to be worse than murder, if you can murder someone to defend yourself from rape.

Killing in self-defense is a justifiable homicide, not a murder.

I'd say they're equal, because either way you've wrongly killed someone: rape victims can never be the same, murder victims are obviously dead.

If we assume they are equal, would you imply that 2 murders (in cold blood) are equal to 1 murder? Or on the other hand that 2 murders are worse than one child rape?

Two murders are definitely worse than just one murder, not only because that's now two dead and two families affected, but it means the murderer shows no signs of repentance or remorse.

Two murders are also worse than one child rape for the same reasons.