Horizon Zero Dawn. I'm Impressed.

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Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
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Damn solid game that. Was good in ways I wasn't expecting it to be.

(Wild spoilers roam beyond. You've been warned.)

(Also, probably going to be a wall of text, for which I apologize. I mostly write these for my own sake, just to get my thoughts in order.)

Never would have thought the Killzone developers would have this in them. Actually makes me a bit sad that they've been stuck churning out First Person Gears of War with Gas Masks for a decade. Then again, that's probably what gave them the experience to make HZD, and this way it gets to leverage current-gen tech.

Graphically fucking gorgeous. I don't want to lightly throw around phrases like, "Most visually impressive game I've ever seen", but yeah, it's way up there. This is a game where even toward the end after many, many hours of playing I would still frequently pause to admire the scenery. Not just big set pieces either, just walking through a random bit of forest in the rain looks damn amazing. I was actually tempted to use the 'photo mode' feature. I intend to go back post-ending just to wander around a look at stuff. That's almost unprecedented for me. I often see concept art for a game and find myself wishing that the final game had looked even half as good. HZD is one of the few where the final result measured up to the concept art, which is about as high praise as I can give.

Machine hunting was a hoot. It was good fun setting traps and putting down even the tougher enemies in a few well placed shots by exploiting weak points. Had some crazy fights where, for example, I got engaged by a Stormbird, then the noise of the ensuing fight attracted a bunch of Longlegs, and then while trying to fend them off I stumbled into some Snapmaws and a Trampler. Turned into a mad roiling clusterfuck as I tried to dodge incoming charges and projectiles from multiple angles while juggling damage types and scrambling to find a moment to get off precise shots at weak points. The way that the battlefield would be strewn with debris and dead machines afterward was really satisfying.

Story was better than I was expecting. I went in thinking it would be completely standard video game pablum. And, to be fair, it often was. A lot of the story elements dealing with the factions and villains and sidequests were decidedly unimpressive. However, I found the central mystery more than compelling enough to keep me looking, much of the material dealing with the fall of the previous civilization and how they dealt with it was pretty great and I enjoyed Aloy's personal journey. The epilogue came dangerously close to making me tear up. (Elisabet Sobek found her way home after all... just in time to submit to the inevitable and die amid the ruins, knowing she'd done all she could. I mean, God damn. *sniff*)

Speaking of Aloy, I liked her more than I was expecting to. Once again, I was expecting Standard Heroic Hero Doing Heroic Hero Things and, once again, to be fair, she often was. However they give her enough personality and emotional range to make her relatable and enough snark to lend her a sense of humour without going full Nathan Drake.

So yeah, fantastic game in my opinion. Solid 7/10 stuff. (Or 9/10 if we're using the stupid video game 7-to-10 scale.)

Buuuut that isn't going to stop me nitpicking the shit out of it.

Firstly, I'm not quite convinced that the game's open world improved it. Granted, it was better than the vast, vaaaast majority of open worlds. It was big enough to feel epic but small enough to not feel empty. Collectibles were restrained in number and some of them were linked to quality narrative content that actually made me want to find them. Plus the aforementioned gorgeous graphics really take the sting out of travelling around. And yet, despite all that, I still found open world fatigue setting in towards the end.

Adding to that, I wasn't a fan of the MMO-esque enemy placement. Machines just kind of mill about doing very little waiting for you to kill them, or not. It makes sense for some of them, but it makes the world feel less alive. Even if they just wandered around it would be better. Hiding while a pack of Ravagers walk past would be a lot cooler than circling around them as they walk back and forth in their assigned 50m radius.

Secondly, the combat went downhill in a hurry when fighting human enemies. Stealthing them to death was kinda fun, but open combat was pretty crappy and felt like a complete afterthought compared to the machine fights. Whenever it came to that I would just beeline for the nearest heavy weapon so I could mow everyone down and get it over with.

Thirdly, fuck Glinthawks. No fun to fight at all. The game's camera was clearly not designed with aerial enemies in mind. Terrain and foilage would often obscure the camera whenever I tried aiming upwards. Combine that with the Glinthawk's eratic movement and you have a recipe for frustration. Really shouldn't have made it through playtesting.

The dialogue suffered from a dose of Bioware face. Although, funnily enough, playing HZD alongside ME:A made me appreciate how much worse it could have been.

A lot of the scenes felt a bit sparse and unpopulated. It was as if they blew their entire crowd budget on the Nora festival at the start. Later major moments felt like there really should have been more people around. Notably during the final defense which seemed to consist of a couple dozen people. Shouldn't I have been seeing entire battalions of soldiers running around, considering what was going on?

Weapon-swapping was a bit annoying. Why can't one bow fire all arrow varieties? Do I really need three different arrows that all just do basic damage? Do the ropecaster and tearblaster really need to take an entire quarter of the wheel each? Does the blast sling need to exist, couldn't the regular sling just fire a bomb? Do harvest arrows really need to exist? Why do traps and proximity bombs exist when tripwires are better in every way? In short, I felt like they could have streamlined the weapons and fit everything onto the one wheel.

Lastly, I don't think Rost should have died, and not just because he was a cool guy and I liked him. The whole mentor-dies-to-protect-and-motivate-hero thing is awfully cliche. Plus it would have been even more poignant if he'd done as he intended and wandered off in a second self-imposed exile to prevent Aloy from breaking taboo for his sake.

Still, very good game.
 

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
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Yeah was pretty impressed with it overall. Personally I liked that weapon had limited type of arrow they could fire it made looting more fun... is what I would have said if they actually took advantages of that and had all kind of different bow each with there own combination, instead it was just boring straight upgrade, I brought everything as soon as they were available, so I essentially had all the feature unlocked at 1/3 of the game... Similarly for the skill, I unlocked everything I wanted very early, honestly the skill system could have been left out. Oh and same for the weapon/armor customization, had all the "gem" I wanted very early and from then on it was just small incremental upgrade.

I didn't particularly liked Aloy honestly, I found her to be sorta of an asshole in the end. I guess it's the mixture of hyper competence at absolutely everything with her shifting attitude from "I'm totally going to help you" to "whatever it doesn't concern me" from scene to scene. I guess it's better than a blank slate character, but I wanted more, maybe if they played more the fact that she essentially had no social relationship with anybody until she turned liked 18, but nah she was just fine interacting with people.

Combat was definitely great, although when too many enemy where involved I'd find the camera very limiting, it was just too close to Aloy. The hotbox of enemy was also a bit too loose so you'd often miss hitting the important target because you'd hit some other part of the enemy. Also some enemy moved way too freaking fast to hit there smaller sensitive spot without the slowdown, ultimately I ended up almost entirely replying a lot on the machine gun (machine bow?) since it was the only weapon you didn't really need to aim and could still reliably hit target. And yeah glint hawk where a pain in the ass and the game just loved forcing you to fight them, so many random quest just have you fight bunch of them.

I think the open world worked, the environment were nice and moving around while seeing the dino bot in the background was great. I also wish they did more with the enemy placement, there were a few spot where it seem they tried, with some bot harvesting stuff that would be linked by bot caravan to cauldron (h cauldron environment were fucking awesome btw). Would have loved more of that.

I did like the final resolution, but it's a bit annoying that they left so much open for a sequel. And the secret to why everything was reset was kinda dumb imo, having the other guy just decide to screw everyone over and somehow being unable to realize that human would just get back to the same point anyway without warning just felt like a cop out.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

Alleged Feather-Rustler
Jun 5, 2013
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I want to play this game. Seriously, I want to!! But I'm just swamped! I got a new puppy, who is literally cuter than any puppy ever, my bro just got Ghost Recon so I have to do that, there's a GW painting contest in May I'm trying to get ready for, there's this new woman I'm seeing that's pleasantly eating up some time, on top of I'm not ready for an entire new game!

Best case I'm trying this game come June or July...
 

sXeth

Elite Member
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Nov 15, 2012
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Weird, I never had issue with Glinthawks. A little nuisancey, but single fire arrows dropped them completely.

While the open world works well for the machine hunting aspect of the game, it gets a little wonky with the narrative if you don't mainline the story quests. Numerous times I ran into the quest that was an intro for some creature or another that I'd already faced off with multiple times. Some of the side-quests even do this to the main storyline ones. Despite kind of following the level recommendations, I ended up waltzing into a shadow carja fort for a sidequest before they were ever introduced in the mainline. Just suddenly a fort of these elite soldier dudes with no explanation to them.

The diverging narratives kind of felt forced too in how they'd just wait on your leisure. For instance, its not a choice of "Help Erend investigate his sister or go find Olin". Both are quite happy to sit at their assigned locales while you do the other one. It could've shaped a tightered narrative and given a sense of character development to Alloy in whether she kept to her mission or got caught up in the Meridian politics (although they end up being related).

Some randomization to the placements would be nice too. The game gets a lot of comparisons to Dragons Dogma (despite doing its story and lore aspects infinitely better. And not being obtuse with its crafting). And thats one that really stands out. Much like DD, there are these epic boss fights you just stumble on... but they're always there, waiting, in the exact same spot everytime. And it makes less mechanical sense even then it did in that game, as DD had drops that were required for grinding up high end gear and craftng in stuff. Horizon has the tiny bit of that, but also has the workarounds with the box merchants to avoid having to farm anything specifically. Its like a bit of a clash between two designers occurred and you ended up with both them kind of half-sitting in there..
 

CritialGaming

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Mar 25, 2015
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Flying enemies in general were overly annoying to take on because of their ability to fly in and out of range. Plus if you don't prepare for them, you will have trouble. This is compounded by the fact that they don't really appear much in mandatory fights, so you never really NEED to prepare for them. Which can be frustrating.

As for your nitpicks. I don't really have a problem with any of them. I understand how you can view them in that way, even if I think you are wrong in a couple of areas.

Rost had to die I feel, because if he remained around Aloy would feel too attached to go of on the adventure that she ends up going on. Sure they could have wrote Rost "away" in other ways, but no matter what it would end up being a little cliche. So what they did was fine.

I don't think many AAA games are going to ever be as good at The Witcher 3, which imo has the best dialog faces and animations of any game ever made so far. The faces here looked good enough for me, and I was so into the story that I didn't pay too much attention to the graphics.

Finally your issues with the weapon swapping, it just made sense to me to go the way they did. Certain bows being better for certain things than others. I mean how many weapon variants can you really do with the tribal theme? It makes sense that they would make different bows that would be better for different things. This is my sniper bow, this is my elemental bow, etc etc. Although if I am perfectly honest, I never used anything else once I got the epic Sniper bow and put 150% worth of raw damage mods into it. Besides I went a more Override and melee build. So perhaps my playstyle just didn't need to be bothered with the weapon wheel so much.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Jul 18, 2009
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Zhukov said:
Lastly, I don't think Rost should have died, and not just because he was a cool guy and I liked him. The whole mentor-dies-to-protect-and-motivate-hero thing is awfully cliche. Plus it would have been even more poignant if he'd done as he intended and wandered off in a second self-imposed exile to prevent Aloy from breaking taboo for his sake.
I was more peeved about them killing what's-his-face the blond kid that threw the rock, and the BFF girl right after the Proving. I guess there's something to say for pulling the rug out from under me, but the game set up what appeared to be a continuing narrative with those two, only to kill them off a moment later.

This together with Rost's death made it so Aloy lacked any sort of plot-related companion to bounce off of. This resulted in her practically becoming a blank slate character once she's set out on her quest.

And while I kinda liked Aloy overall, I wish she could've been a tad... stupider. She seemed to have it all together right from the start, morally, and was just such a straight arrow (no pun intended). It didn't really leave her character any room to grow and expand. At the start this doesn't matter too much, since her plight of being an outcast is enough to engage you in her journey, but once she becomes a Seeker (if I remember the term correctly) she basically becomes Shepard the Spectre, but without the ability to shape her personality.

A terrific game, but the storytelling unfortunately wasn't quite there to see me through to the finish line. I'll probably take another shot at it once I'm done with Persona 5 and Yakuza 0.
 

Sonicron

Do the buttwalk!
Mar 11, 2009
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Agreed on all the points of praise. The world especially felt very much alive because it was just the right size, and it is gorgeous to look at not simply because of great graphics, but because the Killzone devs of all people apparently woke up to the notion of vibrant colour and variety making things look appealing. Who would have guessed?

As for your nitpicks, some of those things I just took for granted. Especially the enemy placement feeling MMO-y is something I've become so accustomed to it doesn't even occur to me it might be out-of-place. And for all the excitement an unpredictable AI can inject into a game, that's what made me quit playing Alien: Isolation because it became too nerve-wracking for me. I do enjoy a fair amount of predictability when it comes to planning out an encounter.

Having Rost die felt kind of necessary for Aloy to be able to fully commit to her grand journey, but it did feel a bit like the game was suddenly pulling the floor out from under me, especially seeing how semi-established characters you would have expected to develop further throughout the narrative were rather unceremoniously slaughtered in the proving. It was very abrupt. Luckily I made several other emotional connections to characters along the way, especially the ones that stick with you to the end.

And one point I will agree on with you 100%:
Ffffffffffffffffffuck. Glinthawks.
Fighting those annoying shits in the jungle was not combat gameplay, it was Closeup Foliage Viewer 2017.
 

Catfood220

Elite Member
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Dec 21, 2010
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Yes, I'm still in love with this game. The fact that I've been playing it for a month and I still think of this game while I'm at work or wake up wanting to play it speaks volumes about what Guerilla have created here.

Glinthawks are easy to deal with, your freeze potion will nullify their ice attacks and they will go down easily with 2 fire arrows and then you run up and give them a whack. They only really become a problem when they team up with other machines.

I love fighting Stalkers, they are just so much fun to fight. Looking for their shimmering outline as they, ahem, stalk you. I also love that when you damage a machine enough, if its not a Storm Bird or a Thunderjaw, will retreat away from you.

However, I will say, fuck the Rock Breakers. The only way I have found to beat them is to find a place where they can't go and their overpowered rock throwing attack can't hit you and rain arrows down on them.

No, the game isn't perfect. Some enemy placements mean that travelling anywhere can become a chore as you can't fight them without being overwhelmed by the sheer amounts of robots. And sneaking around them is not an option so I end up running through the middle of them. The dialog is not great and the lip sync is rubbish, I spend most of my time reading the subtitles. Aloy does come across as being a condescending jerk at times, especially to people that she has helped.

But yeah, I love this game. Bring on the dlc and the sequel.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
13,769
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Seth Carter said:
Numerous times I ran into the quest that was an intro for some creature or another that I'd already faced off with multiple times.
Ha, yeah.

It was kind of funny when I arrived at the Hunter's Lodge and there was a Thunderjaw trophy wired onto the ceiling and someone said, "Ohh, yeah, that guy is top dog because he killed a Thunderjaw all by himself!" And I was thinking, "Yeah, so? I killed four of them on the way here and I even have a couple of hearts and lenses to prove it. Does that make me boss now?"


Meiam said:
And the secret to why everything was reset was kinda dumb imo, having the other guy just decide to screw everyone over and somehow being unable to realize that human would just get back to the same point anyway without warning just felt like a cop out.
I thought his motivations made sense.

It's implied that his explanation about keeping the new generation "innocent" is just a cover for his shame. He would have gone down as The Guy Who Fucked Everything Up, a cautionary tale at best and a devil figure at worst. So he tried to just wipe the slate clean, and any record of his sins along with it.

Casual Shinji said:
I was more peeved about them killing what's-his-face the blond kid that threw the rock, and the BFF girl right after the Proving. I guess there's something to say for pulling the rug out from under me, but the game set up what appeared to be a continuing narrative with those two, only to kill them off a moment later.
Sonicron said:
but it did feel a bit like the game was suddenly pulling the floor out from under me, especially seeing how semi-established characters you would have expected to develop further throughout the narrative were rather unceremoniously slaughtered in the proving. It was very abrupt.
I was okay with them dying. It made the proving massacre carry more weight than it would have if it was just a bunch of random kids being killed.

Besides, taking away people you thought you would have more time with is, well... pretty much how death works.

Incidentally, regarding those two, I liked that the blond arsehole kid showed some guts when it came to the crunch. Having him lose his nerve or something similar would have been too on the nose.

Casual Shinji said:
This together with Rost's death made it so Aloy lacked any sort of plot-related companion to bounce off of. This resulted in her practically becoming a blank slate character once she's set out on her quest.

And while I kinda liked Aloy overall, I wish she could've been a tad... stupider. She seemed to have it all together right from the start, morally, and was just such a straight arrow (no pun intended). It didn't really leave her character any room to grow and expand. At the start this doesn't matter too much, since her plight of being an outcast is enough to engage you in her journey, but once she becomes a Seeker (if I remember the term correctly) she basically becomes Shepard the Spectre, but without the ability to shape her personality.
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. She's like that with most of the stuff regarding the factions, then whenever the story gets make to the central mystery she goes back to being the more interesting and personally motivated Aloy from the beginning.

She does eventually find a couple of characters that fill that "plot-related companion" role to varying degrees, some of them in odd ways, but it takes a while to get there.


CritialGaming said:
Rost had to die I feel, because if he remained around Aloy would feel too attached to go of on the adventure that she ends up going on. Sure they could have wrote Rost "away" in other ways, but no matter what it would end up being a little cliche. So what they did was fine.
Sonicron said:
Having Rost die felt kind of necessary for Aloy to be able to fully commit to her grand journey,
Thing is, he was already planning to up and disappear from her life once she passed the proving. (He goes into his reasons if you select the extra dialogues. Basically, once Aloy became Nora it would have been taboo for them to interact, him still being outcast and all. Aloy says she doesn't give a damn and would visit him anyway. That would bring punishment down on her, so he had resolved to leave and make sure she couldn't find him.)

If they'd gone through with that it would have avoided the cliche, allowed the story to continue and, in my opinion, would have been poignant as hell.

CritialGaming said:
I don't think many AAA games are going to ever be as good at The Witcher 3, which imo has the best dialog faces and animations of any game ever made so far. The faces here looked good enough for me, and I was so into the story that I didn't pay too much attention to the graphics.
I think Naughty Dog's game beat TW3 handily when it comes to facial and dialogue animation.

However, what TW3 specifically did better than any other game I can think of was combine dialogue options with decent animation. Dialogue options mean that they can't just mo-cap their conversations into pre-rendered cutscenes the way Naughty Dog do.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Catfood220 said:
Glinthawks are easy to deal with, your freeze potion will nullify their ice attacks and they will go down easily with 2 fire arrows and then you run up and give them a whack. They only really become a problem when they team up with other machines.
It's not that I found them all that hard. It's just that whenever I go to shoot them with those two fire arrows I have to aim upward and that would constantly fill my camera with foliage or terrain.

(My method was to knock their armour off with a tearblast arrow then shoot their ice-throat-sack thing. That way they fall to the ground frozen for an easy crit.)

But yeah, I love this game. Bring on the dlc and the sequel.
For a sequel, would you want to stick with Aloy or switch to a new protagonist?

I find myself veering toward new character, or at least a noticeably older Aloy, like mid-thirties at least.
 

Catnip1024

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Jan 25, 2010
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Game was fun. Setting was awesome. Difficulty was meaningless.

I played on hard, and the first time I died (barring one moment where I jumped off a cliff not knowing that yellow things meant you could climb them) was in non-stealth combat on the first human camp. And even then, the only reason I was in non-stealth was because the instant takedown animation took me over the edge of a ledge into the people below.

Stealth games shouldn't really be balanced by how hard the enemy hits you. It got more fun once the robots had the ability to scan for you, though.
 

Orga777

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The game was fantastic. I loved getting the Platinum Trophy on this one a lot. The main story was pretty good, too. I love the whole mystery aspect and personal journey stuff. It was great. There were some wonky moments, however, I think all the problems can easily be fixed and all the good can be built upon in the sequel. Heck, that ending had me more pumped for a sequel than in a long time. I want more. lol. Great game. 8/10 for me.
 

CritialGaming

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Zhukov said:
I think Naughty Dog's game beat TW3 handily when it comes to facial and dialogue animation.

However, what TW3 specifically did better than any other game I can think of was combine dialogue options with decent animation. Dialogue options mean that they can't just mo-cap their conversations into pre-rendered cutscenes the way Naughty Dog do.
Yeah but the difference is, Naughty Dog doesn't do huge open world games. Those experiences are very scripted and set in stone. Where TW3 and HZD are open world with hundreds of characters, thousands of dialog lines, player choice in dialog. So there is a difference there.

Also even if Rost had hidden himself from Aloy, she would be consumed with trying to track Rost down. He had to die, as cliche as it was, it was the best fit.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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Zhukov said:
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. She's like that with most of the stuff regarding the factions, then whenever the story gets make to the central mystery she goes back to being the more interesting and personally motivated Aloy from the beginning.

She does eventually find a couple of characters that fill that "plot-related companion" role to varying degrees, some of them in odd ways, but it takes a while to get there.
I quite liked the dude with the mutton chops, but his whole arc was more about him and his sister, with Aloy being more of a Geralt type person within that story. I really enjoyed that initial conversation between him and Aloy, where he was kinda flirting with her and acting like the big city man to her sheltered country girl.
 

Catfood220

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Dec 21, 2010
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Zhukov said:
Catfood220 said:
Glinthawks are easy to deal with, your freeze potion will nullify their ice attacks and they will go down easily with 2 fire arrows and then you run up and give them a whack. They only really become a problem when they team up with other machines.
But yeah, I love this game. Bring on the dlc and the sequel.
For a sequel, would you want to stick with Aloy or switch to a new protagonist?

I find myself veering toward new character, or at least a noticeably older Aloy, like mid-thirties at least.
I don't know at the moment, I haven't actually finished the game yet, so I don't know if the ending leaves it open for Aloy to come back. But I kind of get the feeling that the game is about Aloy finding out who she is and what happened to the world, so if it ends like that then her story is pretty much done, so yeah a new character might be a good idea.
 

Hawk of Battle

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Zhukov said:
[

It was kind of funny when I arrived at the Hunter's Lodge and there was a Thunderjaw trophy wired onto the ceiling and someone said, "Ohh, yeah, that guy is top dog because he killed a Thunderjaw all by himself!" And I was thinking, "Yeah, so? I killed four of them on the way here and I even have a couple of hearts and lenses to prove it. Does that make me boss now?"
The point wasn't that he'd killed a Thunderjaw single-handedly, the point was he was the first person to EVER kill a Thunderjaw. That particular Thunderjaw was the first one anyone ever saw, which he slew, by himself. The lodge works on the rule of "he who kills the most powerful and dangerous enemy first is the leader." Also you have to already be a Hawk ranked member to be promoted.

Which is why once he dies and Talanah kills Redmaw, the most powerful machine around at the time, she becomes the next leader.


Yeah I really loved this game, best thing I've played in years. I even platinumed it within like 2 weeks, and recorded a bunch of my best kills because fighting giant machines is fucking awesome.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Horizon Zero Dawn impressed the hell out of me as well, and really made me sad that more AAA devs don't take risks with new IPs *cough* Mass Effect Andromeda *cough*. The combat was excellent, with picking robots apart and each weapon having it's own use reminding me of the old Dead Space 1 fights; the story was solid (and one of the few I actually gave a shit about in avoiding spoilers) with some strong characters throughout, and the environments were simply stunning (I've never been a graphics guy but holy crap is this game pretty).

The nitpicks though. God, the nitpicks. Like not being able to buy more than 1 item at a time. And some ammo types being kinda useless compared to vastly superior types (why ever use Harvest arrows?). Human combat was boring, which made story missions a little drag-y since they'd just dump 20 guys on you to headshot. Also the difficulty really scaled down once you got fully upgraded, mainly because enemies themselves never really... advanced. I think there's a different type of Watcher, but a Grazer in the early areas is the exact same as a Grazer in the level 50 zone. Could make for some fun times in the wild by accidentally dragging a Stormbird into the area with two Thunderjaws, but story missions would just throw the same robots you'd ripped apart in smaller numbers than you'd find in the wild. So that was a bit weak.

Also, the final boss. Narratively? Pretty cool. Combat-wise? Fucking sucked. What a blue-balling.

Still, awesome game, one of my favourites of all time now, and I'm quite keen to see what they're gonna do with it for sequels/story dlcs. Also really, really, really hoping they don't go all 'AAA' on this and fuck it up with Season Passes or microtransactions or something. Also hoping they keep the sandbox elements small-scale, was quite nice not having 500 collectibles and 120 bandit camps strewn everywhere.

Catnip1024 said:
Game was fun. Setting was awesome. Difficulty was meaningless.

I played on hard, and the first time I died (barring one moment where I jumped off a cliff not knowing that yellow things meant you could climb them) was in non-stealth combat on the first human camp. And even then, the only reason I was in non-stealth was because the instant takedown animation took me over the edge of a ledge into the people below.

Stealth games shouldn't really be balanced by how hard the enemy hits you. It got more fun once the robots had the ability to scan for you, though.
Honestly the only thing that felt different between the difficulty levels was item drop-rates, damage just seems so... variable in the game. I remember getting slammed for 90% of my hp by a Watcher, and then that same Watcher only taking a few chips of HP off with it's following attacks. And on two separate occasions of getting stepped on by Thunderjaws (you'd think something so big wouldn't be so sneaky), one time I nearly died, the other time I took about 60 points of damage. Same gear, one level difference, was all super weird.

Would've worked better if they'd just had a singular difficulty, imo, or changed things up like enemy perception/scan frequency. As it was maxed stealth armour really ended up breaking the game horribly, and even on hard resources were so common it was easy to get that max stealth armour as soon as I hit Meridian.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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Zhukov said:
Firstly, I'm not quite convinced that the game's open world improved it. Granted, it was better than the vast, vaaaast majority of open worlds. It was big enough to feel epic but small enough to not feel empty. Collectibles were restrained in number and some of them were linked to quality narrative content that actually made me want to find them. Plus the aforementioned gorgeous graphics really take the sting out of travelling around. And yet, despite all that, I still found open world fatigue setting in towards the end.

Adding to that, I wasn't a fan of the MMO-esque enemy placement. Machines just kind of mill about doing very little waiting for you to kill them, or not. It makes sense for some of them, but it makes the world feel less alive. Even if they just wandered around it would be better. Hiding while a pack of Ravagers walk past would be a lot cooler than circling around them as they walk back and forth in their assigned 50m radius.

Secondly, the combat went downhill in a hurry when fighting human enemies. Stealthing them to death was kinda fun, but open combat was pretty crappy and felt like a complete afterthought compared to the machine fights. Whenever it came to that I would just beeline for the nearest heavy weapon so I could mow everyone down and get it over with.

Thirdly, fuck Glinthawks. No fun to fight at all. The game's camera was clearly not designed with aerial enemies in mind. Terrain and foilage would often obscure the camera whenever I tried aiming upwards. Combine that with the Glinthawk's eratic movement and you have a recipe for frustration. Really shouldn't have made it through playtesting.
-To me, the open world was needed and earned. The open world was needed to just house the enemies. I felt Horizon earned the open world because much of the gameplay loop is merely getting from location to location and hunting machines. Yeah, the enemies are basically placed like in an MMO, but the story explanation is probably the best excuse ever for said system.

-Yeah, human combat was below average for sure. I don't think I've ever seen a game focus on fighting big beasts while having good combat against "normal" enemies like how Dragon's Dogma excelled fighting the bigger enemies but fighting bandits was pretty lackluster. I feel Witcher 3 had the opposite problem with its combat system which was a mix of Souls and Batman combat tailored to humanoid combat and the bigger monster fights were really bland. I'm not really sure what the solution would be though. One sorta simple thing Horizon missed out on with regards to human combat (in a sense) was you couldn't really get a machine to wreck a bandit camp like you can get a tiger loose in an outpost in Farcry.

-I actually find glinthawks pretty fun to fight. There's quite a decent amount of ways to take them down vs other lower-end machines. The tearblaster is pretty fun to use against them and has more range than people think it does. I think the only camera issues I had with flying enemies are aiming directly above me, not really a big deal though. And fighting glinthawks in that jungle area, the foliage was an issue. With hunter reflexes, you can jump to get slow-mo and get the camera above the foliage.

Wrex Brogan said:
Like not being able to buy more than 1 item at a time.
Guerrilla did patch in the ability to buy multiple of one item by holding down X, I think it was a couple patches ago.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Aug 25, 2014
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Yeah, I'm gonna have to admit that the story was a LOT better than I thought it was going to be.

I mean, the whole thing started off just like pretty much every dystopian YA novel...only for it to veer completely into uncharted territory before the very end. It also dodges many of the more annoying tropes that those novels have; there's no love interest at all, and that made me happy. Also, you're not trying to overthrow some evil government.

On top of that, I appreciate that the game's collectibles are much more manageable than they are in many other similar games. There aren't hundreds of items to collect, which means that it's pretty simple to collect everything through the course of the story missions. I just wish the rewards were more significant than some random mods.

Finally, Ted Faro can go and suck a bag of dicks for destroying humanity not just once, but twice. He's not a great villain, but I don't ever recall hating any villain quite as much as I hated him.
 

Wrex Brogan

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Jan 28, 2016
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Phoenixmgs said:
Wrex Brogan said:
Like not being able to buy more than 1 item at a time.
Guerrilla did patch in the ability to buy multiple of one item by holding down X, I think it was a couple patches ago.
They did, but still doesn't stop that from being an annoying problem playing before the patch went through.

Seriously, I needed 6 metal casing per ammo crafting why could I only buy them 1 at a time?