How To Become Better At Parenting => Helping Escapists version 1.0

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Assumption:
A teenager went to a party late at night without the consent of his/her parents. Unfortunately not only didn't they forbid him/her to go, but they found out, drove to the party and brought him/her back home.

Now, we already discussed http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113714-Force-A-Teen-Girl-To-Swordfight-Go-To-Jail that beating the shit out of you with wooden sword (among other things) doesn't seem "appropriate".

What kind of parenting tactic or disciplinary action is appropriate in your eyes?

To make things more more informative and more interesting you could state your age (teenager opionion vs. adult opinion) and if you have kids yourself.

So I'm 31 years old, I don't have kids yet (I plan to have someday) and (as a parent) if that was my child I would have some harsh but strictly non physical violent form of penalty in my mind. (Which I will disclose to you at a latter point - first I want your ideas)

 

[StrixMaxima]

Teenagers respond positively to money. I'd cut any allowance and I'd tell them that since they cannot understand even the most basic request from their parents, maybe it's a good time to get a job and understand the difference between loving parents and a manager with an axe to grind.

But, most important of all, is sticking with what you establish. Most parents nowadays are simply too soft and wimpy, and think their children will stop loving them if they don't cater to every whim they have.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

[...] Most parents nowadays are simply too soft and wimpy, and think their children will stop loving them if they don't cater to every whim they have.

Yes, helpless, soft and wimpy parents, the bane of everyone. Most likely societies' greatest threat. Maybe the truest form of prime evils in this side of the galaxy. I can't agree more.
So let's help them, make the world better dear escapists, one parent at a time...

 

[eclipsed_chemistry]

Teenagers respond positively to money. I'd cut any allowance and I'd tell them that since they cannot understand even the most basic request from their parents, maybe it's a good time to get a job and understand the difference between loving parents and a manager with an axe to grind.

But, most important of all, is sticking with what you establish. Most parents nowadays are simply too soft and wimpy, and think their children will stop loving them if they don't cater to every whim they have.

Not necessarily true about the money. I was a strange kid who never really "wanted" any toy, game, or other thing I could be bribed with since I always got crap my brothers didn't want and turned it into something fun. But I see where you're going with that.

Completely agreed about parents being too soft and not sticking to any system so some punishments made out of anger or fear seem too harsh and rewards are taken for granted. I'm not a parent, and don't plan on becoming one for quite a while, but to aspiring parents or couples, I'd recommend raising a pet together. I've raised 4 dogs on my own and the first couple were very shaky experiences since I'd never raised anything before and wanted my dogs to love me so I was very reluctant to punish or to be consistent with punishment. I learned by the time I raised the last two. I'd say it's that way in families too, at least, the ones that don't spoil the youngest child.

 

[SidingWithTheEnemy]

Well the thing about that story is that we don't know enough details. Does the kid have a history of getting into trouble, do they often disobey their parents, what was the reason they did not want them going to that party, etc. [...]

Feel free to design your own backstory (for this example) then, we are at the Escapist here, everybody should have enough fantasy to shape out the details.

[...]A little bit of pain and humiliation is good for kids. Makes them understand what the world has in store for them.

While I have difficulites not to agree here, we must be careful: what do you mean by "a little pain and humiliation" is more like: pain or pain, or plain and simple <spanky, spanky paddling> pain. Or is it some hideosly different form of psychological pain? Please be more specific and provide details. Thanks.

 

[Thaluikhain]

But, most important of all, is sticking with what you establish. Most parents nowadays are simply too soft and wimpy, and think their children will stop loving them if they don't cater to every whim they have.

Mmmm. Bizarrely, if you keep telling a kid "no", but letting them do it anyway, they stop paying attention to being told "no".

 

[StrixMaxima]

Not necessarily true about the money. I was a strange kid who never really "wanted" any toy, game, or other thing I could be bribed with since I always got crap my brothers didn't want and turned it into something fun. But I see where you're going with that.

Yeah, it's just a sort of blanket statement, since children and teens are individuals, too (gasp!) and must be treated as such.

Also, I envy your parents =)

 

[dvd_72]

Well my brother and I allways had a - in hindsight bizzare - fear of dissapointing my mother, despite having had no examples of what would happen if we did (at least that I can remember).

Still, if your child is refusing to listen to you at that age, then you're going to have to try alot harder to "correct" him than you would if you taught him to respect you earlier in his life.

As to answer the question, probably take thier allowance. Seems to be the best way to controll teens. They can't exactly go out with thier friends if they don't have the money to pay for thier drinks/food/entrance fees. Still, it's very dependent on the history of the situation. People are extremely complicated afterall.

 

[JoJo]

19 year old with an 8 year old sister here, plus experience with other children. What's most important of all is being a loving, warm and understanding parent, if you aren't there for your child then they'll often grow up with social or behavioural problems later on and have difficulties forming solid relationships. Interestingly despite what many people say, over the last couple of decades there hasn't been any decline in parenting standards, if anything research shows that parents nowadays have higher standards and spend more time with their children now than in the eighties:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-15334626

As for punishment, there isn't usually any need to resort to physical punishments. People, children included, respond better to positive instruction in general and really there are numerous possible non-violent methods of effective discipline such as:

-Taking away toys/internet access/video games/television etc
-Grounding
-Missing out on a treat

When there is a problem with discipline, it's normally because the parent isn't disciplining or setting boundaries at-all. Below are several studies that show that spanking toddlers is correlated with increased violent behaviour in pre-school years, even after the results are controlled for differences in misbehaviour (e.g. "more violent children are spanked more" is discounted)

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/125/5/e1057
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html
http://www.parentingscience.com/spanking-children.html

The last link is the best and also adds that there are additional negative effects if the child is above 5 or 6 and/or the parent seems cold or distant while they are disciplining.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Yes, helpless, soft and wimpy parents, the bane of everyone. Most likely societies' greatest threat. Maybe the truest form of prime evils in this side of the galaxy. I can't agree more.
So let's help them, make the world better dear escapists, one parent at a time...

No offense, but it's attitudes like that that get people killed. And then the handwaving of responsibility begins.

How about we leave parenting to parents because they're the people who are actively involved, get down off our high horses build of hindsight and start sorting out the problems in our own lives?

Just a thought.

Making the world better is what drives people like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin and others.

Making their own surroundings a little better is what drives Benjamin Britten, Abraham Lincoln and Ian Thorpe.

 

[Colour Scientist]

The first problem with that is the part where the parents drive to the party to bring their child home. I don't think that this is ever a positive response to your child sneaking out. Let them stay there for the entirety of the party AND THEN punish the shit out of them.

I'm still 20 so, obviously, I have no immediate plans to have children but I'm also not too far away from the age of sneaking out to parties. In my experience, the children of parents who reacted like that were always the most wild and destructive. That kind of action was humiliating and because the person had been embarrassed in front of their peers, they always felt as though they had something to prove and so, drank the most/took the most drugs etc...

It's always best to have some sort of compromise system. Let your child go to certain parties, a lot of the time it's your child wanting to show face a opposed to having a good time so create some sort of moderation system.

Example: No parties on school nights but let him/her go to one on the weekend provided he/he is going with friends you know to be somewhat sensible.


If you make these compromises and he/she still sneaks out to one then grounding or taking away his/her cash flow is always a good punishment.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I see no reason why I should severely punish her. I would talk to her, see why she wanted to go so bad and then probably let her get away scot-free. Being a teenager is all about independence and personal responsibility. I have to let her make her own mistakes so that she can learn from them. Plus, it was just a fucking party.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

well if we are referring to that thread and that situation in particular, it would depend on how i've raised her/how she's reacted to everything up until that point.


more then likely, she is a teen (becoming an adult) so i would treat her as such, i'd sit down, have a heart to heart talk, see how she reacted to certain questions and if she acted like a mature non snotty human being about it, she'd be good to go and that'd be the end of it with just a few "warnings" implied for future mishaps, but if she acted like a spoiled brat and screamed bloody murder?

she is gonna be doing massive amounts of chores around the house and she'll be lucky if she has her phone/computer/internet/tv for a month (unless she does a massive turn around within a week or two, then i'd consider giving it back to her)

 

[Alordo]

We should never discipline our children. Any form of punishment for a child is frowned upon. We should heap on them praise in all things they do as well as rewards. That way, we as a society can continue to spiral downward towards whatever it is all the advocates of not disciplining a child want.

OT: I want to spank the morons that think spanking is bad. Me, I got my butt fanned many a time growing up. Why? Because I did something deserving of the punishment. I've never been arrested. I've never done unsanctioned drugs. I've received numerous glowing evaluations from the places I've worked. I've received several medals and citations during my time in the military. So the tards that think spanking results in aggressive behavior need to look at the REST of the child's development. Not just the spanking.

I'm aggressive when I play sports. I'm aggressive when I have a job to complete at work or at home. I'm not aggressive toward others. Well, maybe idiots on the road that worry to much that Walmart may get up and leave before they get there. Or that the beer in the fridge is gonna get warm before they get home. Do I get angry? Who doesn't? But I don't go around smacking people because of it. Why? Because I was also TAUGHT by my parents to be KIND TO OTHERS and that hitting is wrong. Something we seem to forget to teach our current generation. Not all but unfortunately enough.

Spanking is only one aspect of disciplining a child. It has become the EVIL we must stomp out though thanks to all those "studies". Time-outs do not work. Talking with your child does, but you need to be firm with them. And sometimes that firm follows a firm hand on the backside.

 

[JoJo]

We should never discipline our children. Any form of punishment for a child is frowned upon. We should heap on them praise in all things they do as well as rewards. That way, we as a society can continue to spiral downward towards whatever it is all the advocates of not disciplining a child want.

Uh, does anyone like that actually exist? Seriously, I've never met anyone who advocated not disciplining children at-all, some links to writings by such people would be appreciated.

OT: I want to spank the morons that think spanking is bad. Me, I got my butt fanned many a time growing up. Why? Because I did something deserving of the punishment. I've never been arrested. I've never done unsanctioned drugs. I've received numerous glowing evaluations from the places I've worked. I've received several medals and citations during my time in the military. So the tards that think spanking results in aggressive behavior need to look at the REST of the child's development. Not just the spanking.

I'm aggressive when I play sports. I'm aggressive when I have a job to complete at work or at home. I'm not aggressive toward others. Well, maybe idiots on the road that worry to much that Walmart may get up and leave before they get there. Or that the beer in the fridge is gonna get warm before they get home. Do I get angry? Who doesn't? But I don't go around smacking people because of it. Why? Because I was also TAUGHT by my parents to be KIND TO OTHERS and that hitting is wrong. Something we seem to forget to teach our current generation. Not all but unfortunately enough.

Spanking is only one aspect of disciplining a child. It has become the EVIL we must stomp out though thanks to all those "studies". Time-outs do not work. Talking with your child does, but you need to be firm with them. And sometimes that firm follows a firm hand on the backside.

Not everyone who smokes will die of lung cancer. Doesn't mean there isn't an increased risk from smoking. Same with this situation, just because you didn't become violent from spanking doesn't mean there's no risk at-all from it. Are you saying you, a random lay-person, know more about the issue than trained psychologists who carried out peer-reviewed studies? If you can provide proof that the studies I linked above in this thread are bunk, then I'll believe you.

 

[Random berk]

Cutting of pocket money or grounding. For more serious offenses, a literal ass kicking (singular). I wouldn't do anything worse than my own parents would do when I was a kid, and certainly nothing cruel and unusual. A good step I think is to read the articles on parenting fails that constantly appear on the Escapist and say to myself: Remember that one. Don't do that.

Just a thought.

Making the world better is what drives people like Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Stalin and others.

Making their own surroundings a little better is what drives Benjamin Britten, Abraham Lincoln and Ian Thorpe.

Now thats a point well made.

 

[Alordo]

I'm sorry. I forgot to put up the sarcasm tags on the first part of my comment. And I also forgot the one thing my wife tells me about regularly. Not everyone is as strong as I am. Not physically, but emotionally and mentally. So, disregard my post. I am apparently not included in the people who were spanked but didn't turn out the way the studies say children will turn out.

 

[Minjoltr]

You state in the op that, while the individual in question did not get their parent's permission, the parents did not forbid them from going.

Assumption:
A teenager went to a party late at night without the consent of his/her parents. Unfortunately not only didn't they forbid him/her to go, but they found out, drove to the party and brought him/her back home.

If the parents didn't want the teenager to go, they should have said something. In a familial situation, punishing someone for something they didn't know was forbidden seems excessive and heavy-handed unless the situation is actually dangerous. Perhaps a warning not to do it again and greater clarity from everyone in future situations would be the way to go.

 

[Dastardly]

Assumption:
A teenager went to a party late at night without the consent of his/her parents. Unfortunately not only didn't they forbid him/her to go, but they found out, drove to the party and brought him/her back home.

Now, we already discussed http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/113714-Force-A-Teen-Girl-To-Swordfight-Go-To-Jail that beating the shit out of you with wooden sword (among other things) doesn't seem "appropriate".

What kind of parenting tactic or disciplinary action is appropriate in your eyes?

To make things more more informative and more interesting you could state your age (teenager opionion vs. adult opinion) and if you have kids yourself.

So I'm 31 years old, I don't have kids yet (I plan to have someday) and (as a parent) if that was my child I would have some harsh but strictly non physical violent form of penalty in my mind. (Which I will disclose to you at a latter point - first I want your ideas)

(Not a parent, but I am a middle school / high school teacher)

Physical punishment has its place... but that place is mostly before your child is able to reason through punishments -- this can be up through elementary school for many kids, as they can't yet focus long enough for your to explain "why that was wrong" or "what this punishment will teach you." Physical punishment doesn't provide specific enough feedback for long-term fixes, but it is useful for stopping behaviors for now and providing an immediate consequence. Once a kid is fully verbal, and they are fully able to listen and reason, physical punishment is no longer necessary or appropriate.

For this kid, it's not going to do much at all to use physical punishment. Instead, frame the punishment as such: "If you're going to be able to do things you want, on your own, I need to be able to trust that you'll be honest and use that freedom responsibly. Because you've misused your freedom and my trust, you've lost both." Then ground the kid. They'll need to keep you informed of every minute of their day, all their comings and goings, to a cumbersome degree.

While they're grounded, their household responsibilities increase. Laundry, trash, dishes, pick a few. Make them understand that having the freedom of an adult means bearing the responsibilities of an adult -- and you'll probably show them that they're not ready for that just yet.

Notice -- it's not "you're grounded for a week." They'll wait out the time and change nothing. There's a result you want, and they're grounded until you see that result. When the chores are getting done well, and without complaint, they're demonstrating responsibility (the ability to do what needs done even when they don't want to). When they can do it without being reminded, they're demonstrating trustworthiness. That's when you can start easing up, bit by bit.

(Also, remember that any punishment you impose you must also enforce. That means it's going to make more work for you, too. Do it -- too many parents take the lazy route, and it ends up undermining any lessons punishment might teach.)