How to stop being afraid of being a pervert.

[Doclector]

First of all, I'm really sorry to come here for help again for my bullshit problems, but I can't really talk about this to people IRL, it's awkward and they don't tend to offer real answers, only clich'es. I would ask about it on an autism forum I frequent in the hopes that the advice would be more relevant, but quite frankly, in regards to relationships, there's two kinds of people on there. The forever alone types whose bitterness would make even the likes of me look like a ray of fucking sunshine by comparison, and the people who actually succeeded and now appear to take pleasure in laughing at those who haven't.

My anxiety meds seem to be working well, and with that comes some small increase in clarity when I look at my own problems. One of the things I've been forced to look at is how I think about relationships. It just ain't healthy how intimidated I am by the thought of being attracted to someone. I'm always afraid I'm gonna do something wrong, say something wrong, and come across as a pervert, I'm even afraid that having those feelings in itself makes me a pervert, simply because it seems so unlikely that they'll be reciprocated.

Part of the problem seems to be that it seems so complicated. All the codes, all the body language, we live in a world where wearing the wrong fucking hat is a good enough reason for people to mark you as the kind of asshole who makes "get back in the kitchen" jokes on xbox live. I can't just ignore all the messages around me. As much as a lot of this shit is said on the internet and greater internet dickwad theory applies, they're still said by real people, and a lot of them, which means I can assume it all means something. All these different, conflicting messages about who I'm supposed to be, how I'm supposed to act, what would make me a neckbeard, what would make me a douchebag, and most importantly, what would make me somewhat close to a functional human being.

At the same time, logically, putting aside all these voices fucking screaming at me, it seems as if it should all be so simple. After all, I am aware that women are only human beings. True, most of them are normal human beings, and normal people and I differ massively, but still. Hell, last night I approached something close to flirting. Sure, I was pretty drunk, and needless to say, she didn't end up leaving with me, but it was nice. She seemed to smile at me, I smiled back, she smiled back again, I figure "Well shit, I don't know much, but that's gotta be good" and we just got talking. I don't know if I'm making more out of it than there actually is. Shit, I don't know anything at all, thinking about it. This probably sounds fucking pathetic.

And the how of it all. For example, confidence. Everyone says I gotta have confidence. I get that, I understand that, but how? With the mountains of evidence that I'm a useless, unlovable abomination, Chief among them being that I'm still a virgin at an age when everyone else had long since rid themselves of their V-card. Everyone says what I should do, nobody helps with the how.

Any advice at all you'd have really would help.

 

[White Lightning]

This thread seems like an excellent place to ask something I was thinking about. When I'm working I usually read the Toronto Sun and at some point check out the Sun Girl. I've been called a pervert for this but I don't think I am.

As for the OP, stop caring so much. I find not giving a fuck usually makes moments when you say something "wrong" not seem like a big deal. I mean even in my question I don't care that they're calling me a pervert. I'm just wondering If looking at the Sun Girl is a perverted thing to do.

I realize being told not to give a fuck is frustrating because you probably don't know how, but it is the best advice. Just try caring less and less until you learn to shrug things off.

 

[Euryalus]

Everyone says I gotta have confidence. I get that, I understand that, but how? With the mountains of evidence that I'm a useless, unlovable abomination, Chief among them being that I'm still a virgin at an age when everyone else had long since rid themselves of their V-card. Everyone says what I should do, nobody helps with the how.

Any advice at all you'd have really would help.

Firstly? By stop saying the second part. I recognize you from the forms and have seen your posts in tons of different threads, and you know what? For as much as I've seen you post I honestly just don't see a damn thing about you that screams abomination, terrible person, oh my!

I don't. You'd think if you were It'd have bled through somewhere right?

There are plenty of people I've seen once and dislike on here. You're not one of them. Take that for the little it's worth.

You want confidence? Sit down every day and write down things you like about yourself. Write down things other people like about you or have said. It doesn't matter if you believe what they've said, just write it down. Focus on what you've written. Think about them every single time you have a negative thought about yourself.

I'm not a psychologist, obviously, but I do know enough that from an objective standpoint you're amplifying your negatives to be much larger than they are, minimizing your positives to be much smaller than they are, and putting value on things that are outside your control.

If you want to get better. First build your confidence like people have said. Do it by being positive about what you like about yourself. There's always something. Always.

Secondly? Go see a specialist about anxiety. You clearly have it. There are therapies like cognitive behavioral therapy or medications that can help. Not just help, seemingly miraculously make you better
at exactly what your asking for help with.

 

[Lilani]

-snip-

Would "pervert" be a word you would use to describe your normal behavior around people in non-romantic situations?

From what I've read so far I'm rather doubting it, which is rather good news because it means you're most of the way there already. Unless you know yourself to randomly say perverted or overtly sexual things in casual conversation, then your goal should be just to be yourself. Don't try to achieve anybody's definition of "normal" or "good" behavior but your own. You know saying perverted things in a conversation that doesn't call for it is a bad thing. You know girls are people who don't want to be chased or objectified or creeped out. You know what an asshole is and that you don't want to be one. So just don't. You should never dismiss or ignore your flaws, but I think you're rather selling short how good of a person you already are.

Most people in the world are not looking for reasons to cut you down, and a good many of them are just as concerned as you are about their looks and appearances. Perhaps just take a step back and reflect on how you behave around your friends IRL. How you behave around girls needn't be different. Don't put on a mask whenever you speak to a girl, just be yourself. Because if they aren't going to be interested in the real you, then putting on a mask is just going to delay the disappointment to a later date.

 

[Kuilui]

Wow OP your basically a slightly younger version of me, especially that second paragraph, good lord. Except I'm not on anxiety meds...but after reading this I can see how much my anxiety is still eating away at me.. Maybe I should call a psychologist. Well the only advice I can give is just what my dad always told me. Just practice, practice, practice and eventually it'll get a little easier.

 

[Foolery]

Hey. A real pervert wouldn't worry about being perceived as a pervert. You seem alright, man. Know what you should work on? Loving yourself. No one wants to be around someone who loathes themselves. Especially women.

One of the biggest things about anxiety is that it isn't rational. A large majority of it is likely in your head.

 

[renegade7]

First of all, a real pervert wouldn't be concerned about not looking like a pervert. Do you have anything in particular that would be "perverted" that you are doing?

Sometimes people who don't have much romantic success have an annoying automatic reaction of very quick inappropriate glances or accidentally becoming physically aroused in mixed company. This is not something to feel ashamed about and it's not something you have direct control over, it's a pretty natural thing that will stop happening as you get more used to being around women. I bring this up because back when I volunteered at an anxiety and depression hotline it wasn't an unusual thing for me to hear, especially for people in their late teenage years, that some young people were very nervous about this and were worried that people were noticing it.

And the how of it all. For example, confidence. Everyone says I gotta have confidence. I get that, I understand that, but how? With the mountains of evidence that I'm a useless, unlovable abomination, Chief among them being that I'm still a virgin at an age when everyone else had long since rid themselves of their V-card. Everyone says what I should do, nobody helps with the how.

Any advice at all you'd have really would help.

I'd start by not worrying so much about losing your virginity like it's this big deal and everything in your life will improve just because you convince someone to let you put your penis into her. Putting that pressure on yourself will only make romantic interaction much harder for you.

Ultimately, the source of creepiness is trying too hard. People can sense when someone lacks confidence and has unspoken intentions, and it puts them off. The solution to being anxious about dating is simply to stop treating it like a big deal and understand that you don't need to be with someone, realistically, no one is judging you just because you're a virgin.

 

[Doclector]

Sorry it took so long to reply. I wasn't sure what to say.

snip

Thing is that everyone else is already used to it. They've been in that territory for years already, I can't hope to match up and I don't think anyone has the patience to deal with me not being used to it. I don't really think it's fair to expect anyone to.

snip

I did. I'm on medication for it now. Seems to be helping slightly, but I still need to deal with these problems.

I try to do that affirmation thing, but it's just so hard to get me take that seriously. The evidence that any of it would be true simply isn't there, so much so that it goes beyond just not believing and just becomes utterly ridiculous.

snip

Can't help but feel something would've happened by now if I was doing the right thing, if I was a good enough person. Not having a single significant relationship at 23 isn't normal, I must have done something wrong, it ain't as if every single women around me are fundamentally flawed. Hell, if they were, I wouldn't have such a huge problem, I wouldn't keep having feelings for people who will never feel anything back.

snip

I swear everyone can tell, though. My friends usually know, but nobody else, but they still look at me like I'm disgusting. It feels like they know. I guess maybe it's the lack of confidence, but I know plenty of people who aren't virgins who lack confidence. I feel like if I don't do something soon, I'm going to get older and then eventually I'll end up being one of those really old virgins that everyone finds creepy, there'll be no way of fixing it. I feel like I've got to fix everything and make myself more normal before it's too late.

 

[Mr.Cynic88]

snip

Can't help but feel something would've happened by now if I was doing the right thing, if I was a good enough person. Not having a single significant relationship at 23 isn't normal,

Idk, it's pretty normal if you ask me. The issue pops up at least once a week in this advice forum. There's a shit ton of "never been kissed" guys. If I were so inclined I could probably name five friends off the top of my head in the same scenario.

 

[Euryalus]

snip

I did. I'm on medication for it now. Seems to be helping slightly, but I still need to deal with these problems.

I try to do that affirmation thing, but it's just so hard to get me take that seriously. The evidence that any of it would be true simply isn't there, so much so that it goes beyond just not believing and just becomes utterly ridiculous.

Medication alone isn't always effective. I've had social anxiety disorder for awhile, pretty much stunted my "growth" in high school. I didn't do most of the things your "supposed" to do while there.

I didn't really get better until I went to a specialist for anxiety. Had me do a CBT program and it helped to move me from being anxious ordering at McDonald's to being just kind of shy.

The affirmation thing DOES sound bullshit to you, because as is obvious from some of the responses you've given you're convinced that you're disgusting or an abomination.

Seriously, What could you possibly have to done to say? Have you raped and murdered children? No? Then stop telling yourself you're crap. It forms habitual thinking and causes you to do several irrational things I mentioned. Overgeneralize, maximize the importance of percieved negatives, and minimize the importance of percieved positives.

You're not really accurately judging yourself, and it causes anxiety. It causes the lack of confidence you claim you want to fix. You asked how? There's the how.

Focus on the positives, stop negative thoughts when you can, and think things through very carefully.

You're a virgin? Why do you care? Really. What's bad about it? You said something rather goofy? So? It's something even the most charismatic of charismatic stallions do.

People make mistakes. Stop using yours, percieved or otherwise, as an indictment against yourself. Try better next time.

Make that kind of thinking a habit, and you'll be much happier for it. Trust me. I'm a random internet person

Spoiler: Relavent quotes

'Don't let the force of an impression when it first hits you knock you off your feet; just say to it, "Hold on a moment; let me see who you are and what you represent. Let me put you to the test"'

-Epictetus

"If evil is spoken of you and it's true, correct yourself. If it's a lie, then laugh at it."

-Epictetus

"If you want to improve, be content to be thought foolish and stupid."

-Epictetus

There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power of our will.

-Epictetus

 

[Lilani]

Can't help but feel something would've happened by now if I was doing the right thing, if I was a good enough person. Not having a single significant relationship at 23 isn't normal, I must have done something wrong, it ain't as if every single women around me are fundamentally flawed. Hell, if they were, I wouldn't have such a huge problem, I wouldn't keep having feelings for people who will never feel anything back.

Noooo, that's perfectly normal. A good number of my friends are in the same boat, hell I know people older than me who have never had a serious boyfriend or girlfriend. And I didn't get one until just last year. You haven't done anything wrong, and you are so young. Jesus you're nearly still a baby at this age. I'm the same age as you, but in the last year I've gotten a "real job" and if there's one thing I've learned it's that I've barely even started life at this point. There is nothing wrong with you, and the only changes you make to how you behave around other people should be for YOUR happiness and comfort, not for anyone else's. If you aren't comfortable in your own skin then having a relationship isn't going to fix that. Self-confidence is something only you can grant yourself because your pride belongs to you, not somebody else.

 

[TheWiseScarecrow]

I was rather socially awkward, even now the prospect of talking to strangers fills me with cold dread, but I learned to get past this and now enjoy being the fun person of the evening.

The best advise I ever got was that people are a lot more interested in themselves then they are in you. Every person you meet is just as insecure as you are. Everyone is too worried what you think about THEM to worry too much about what they think of YOU. So the best way to start up a conversation is with a complement. Look at the person you want to talk to - what are they wearing? That's the easiest one. Complement their glasses, dress, cap, bag whatever you actually like. They'll say thank you. A compliment is a compliment. If they say thank you and turn away coldly - they don't want to talk, if they smile and thank you - continue! The second question would be why they are where they are - do they know someone here? are they here for the great coffee? band? cereal? And then just keep firing away questions much like in rpgs when you want a character to TELL YOU MORE just less roboty-like(what do you do? what do you enjoy most about it? what was the strangest day you ever had at work? you can actually plan questions ahead. They're the same for a lot of people) Everyone likes talking about themselves, most will be flattered by the attention no matter who you are. Maybe they'll even ask something back. That's when you know they like you)
The second thing,a bit trickier is to ask people for help with a problem they can easily solve. I usually just ask for advise in an area I think the person knows something about. Like games, languages, sandwiches.
Showing real interest in people is the key. No one will care about your confidence if they're talking about themselves.
And eventually it'll become easier. Just look at a girl, decide what you like about her clothes(NOT LOOKS - this is important! Be interested in more than that! or try) take a deep breath and compliment!

As for the pervert thing that's a rather loose term. Some cultures see hand holding before marriage as perverted.

 

[Def]

Many of the comments above are pretty helpful. I'm an abnormal man and my advices will be abnormal. As I think, your problem is only in having the "problems" described by yourself. Were you happy in childhood? It was the time when you knew nothing about relationships, sex, virginity, elitism, prestigiousness, normality, God. The society has poisoned you. My advice: to overthrow the programs of behaviour that were forcibly gifted to you by the dictatorial society, to be abnormal and to enjoy yourself. Then you will be happy again, as in childhood. Humans were created for happiness like birds were created for flying. If you want, I will link you to a funny book that will help to overthrow the poisons of mind.

The Pervert has spoken.