How you feel about taxes

[RobDaBank]

So I was about to reply to a topic about owning a house over renting and I got into a rant about taxes and decided to just create a thread instead. What are taxes like in countries other than the UK?

I personally feel overwhelmed with them.

I wake up in the morning and turn the heating on, which I pay VAT (Value Added Tax) on, and turn the lights on (Again, VAT), go downstairs and have a council TAX bill to pay.

I leave my house and get in my car, which I have to pay road TAX for and also insure, which has a VAT charge on it. On my way to work I fill my car up with diesel, which carries a fuel duty charge, as well as, you guessed it, more VAT!

Now I arrive at work, work away, eat my packed lunch (VAT), and when I get paid, oh dear, INCOME TAX!

So before I even get to work I've paid tax out of my arse just to be paid and have more tax taken off me.

Not only that but as I save up for a pension, I have to pay tax on that! So the fruits of my labour aren't even safe!

Luckily the government didn't go forward with the hot pasty tax (A tax on hot foods) or I would've gone mad with disbelief.

So guys, how do you feel? and what would you propose to make it better?

 

[Eddie the head]

I think this is likely better suited to the Religion and Politics forum. Both things I try not to talk about on the internet.

 

[JochemHippie]

I'm fairly sure atleast 60% (Could be more, don't quote me on that) of pretty much everything ends up at the government in one way or another.

I find that a lot.

 

[robot slipper]

OP, your entire post sums up about 75% of my woes in life! It is ridiculous, and I can't believe that the duty on petrol is set to go up AGAIN in August. Ugh. One thing that really peeves me is that I got a "long service awrd" for working at my current employer for 5 years. The award was supposed to be £500, but because it was subject to tax and NI, I ended up only seeing about £300. That's my treat that I earned for working there for 5 years, but I still have to give a huge chunk away!

If you think of all of the tax money that goes in, they must be squandering a hell of a lot as we still have a deficit problem.

 

[Jonluw]

I'm happy to contribute to the community by means of taxes.
It's bloody tiresome to keep track of though. Filling out forms and what not.

 

[RobDaBank]

I don't mind contributing, but when you contribute so much and hear how the country is still struggling it makes it feel useless.

In my honest opinion, lowering taxes would benefit the entire country. Lower taxes = lower prices = higher product demand = bigger workforces required to meet demand = more people paying taxes/not claiming jobseekers = more taxes to spend on police force = decreasiong drugs trade = less money being sent abroad = higher GDP = more money for construction = more people in work = more affordable housing = less people claiming housing benefits and so on

This is what I would like to see, but I don't think Mr Cameron undersrands that you can only wring a sponge out so much before you need to dip it in water again.

 

[Esotera]

A necessary evil, and it's even more soul-destroying watching them get wasted on pointless government schemes. I'm happy to pay them as long as they are reasonable, because I make good use of roads, public transport, and the NHS, etc.

 

[chimeracreator]

Taxes are necessary, but they aren't always used or issued effectively. I believe that every cent spent on DARPA to create the Internet was worth it. I don't believe that the spending money to create stealth destroyer is a good use of tax payer money. I believe that income taxes being automatically deducted from my paychecks makes my life easier ditto for automatic sales taxes. I do not however like paying taxes for medicare as I doubt I will ever see a single cent of that money myself.

In my honest opinion, lowering taxes would benefit the entire country. Lower taxes = lower prices = higher product demand = bigger workforces required to meet demand = more people paying taxes/not claiming jobseekers = more taxes to spend on police force = decreasiong drugs trade = less money being sent abroad = higher GDP = more money for construction = more people in work = more affordable housing = less people claiming housing benefits and so on

What your referring to is the Laffer Curve, and based on the results of the Bush era tax cuts at least the US appears to be on the left of the curve, not the right meaning that a decrease in taxes and government spending results in a decrease in GDP rather than an increase. This is because

Less Government Spending = Lower Demand = Jobs Cut = Less Net Revenue = More Debt = Less Government Spending...

Obviously economics isn't as simple as the above statement and it depends on exactly what is cut, by how much and over what period of time the cut takes place in. Sometimes cuts do help the economy while other times they hurt it. But a good general rule is to look at savings rates and investments rates for the private vs public sector. In general it's best to balance things so you have a roughly equal rate of reinvestment in both.

 

[Kordie]

Canadian point of view here.
I agree with taxes in principal. Giving back to the government makes sense to me, it sucks when you see how much of your earnings they take, but I believe on the whole its being put to good use (Health care, public schools, police...) However, I have two gripes that can almost make the whole system not worth it.
The first, is when I see tax money being wasted on rediculous programs. Second is seeing unfair tax laws that allow corporations, or high income people to get away with paying much less than others. The tax gap in canada is not as bad as other places from what I have heard, but it is growing. Fix those two issues (good luck to that) and it would be a lot closer to an ideal system.

 

[Kordie]

Canadian fun tax fact... Our income tax was introduced as a temporary measure to help fund world war 1. Must have been a really expensive war to still be paying it

 

[suitepee7]

i think that taxes should be a set percent of your income, and that is it. no higher tax bands for those who earn more, because it makes earning more seem a bit pointless. a set percentage for everyone is what i think it should be. to be honest i don't think the government should be allowed to take more than 10% unless i actually get a say in what they spend it on. i agree with taxes in principle, but certain things should be paid for by the individual needing that thing, not by everyone out of tax money, and i don't want to be paying taxes for something retarded that i see no point in or will get any benefit out of.

edit: i should probably do a small example of why i think certain things shouldn't be taxed, and how people can pay for it by themselves.

so say you are a smoker, you pay taxes on tobacco. however if you then become very ill from smoking, you get treated on the NHS. in my eyes, cigarette taxes should be scrapped, let people buy them cheaper, but if they become ill as a direct result of smoking, they pay 100% for the treatment. that way people who do not smoke aren't potentially having some of their money put into the NHS for treating those who have become ill from smoking.

 

[MrStab]

Well I'll pay taxes and not complain that much but there will be a lot of ranting and raving if the fucking carbon tax gets passed because that entire thing is just bullshit and we're paying enough as it is! I do think that the way our government (Australian) taxes cigarettes is criminal though.

 

[MrStab]

so say you are a smoker, you pay taxes on tobacco. however if you then become very ill from smoking, you get treated on the NHS. in my eyes, cigarette taxes should be scrapped, let people buy them cheaper, but if they become ill as a direct result of smoking, they pay 100% for the treatment. that way people who do not smoke aren't potentially having some of their money put into the NHS for treating those who have become ill from smoking.

Make post mention tax on smokes, person above edits there's to include cigarettes just after I've hit the post button. Well played good sir! I'm a smoker and I find these terms logical and acceptable as long as I don't have to pay for the therapy and medical bills of some smashed up heroin or meth junkie.

 

[The Ubermensch]

I'm a bit of a socialist so I believe in taxation. I mean a decent education, roads, security, and HEALTH CARE should be available to EVERY ONE. A basic quality of life should be available to everyone. And lets face it, almost everyone loves the military, if the US didn't have such an over blown defence budget we wouldn't have a lot of the super awesome toys we have today.

What I think should be done however is simplify the tax system. I'm not saying remove the (Australian for context) Goods and Services Tax, 'cause that shit works. But, and pardon my language, stamp duty can go get raped by a 12 inch dildo. I will pay, you know, $80 for someone to sign off to say I now own a property, not $10000.

Carbon Tax, IN THEORY, is a good idea. It makes the cheaper yet more environmentally damaging products more expensive, which makes the more environmentally friendly options more appealing, which makes them cheaper, and the world gets better. In practice...

The thing I hate about government is Lobby groups. This is why we can't make new spinal cords out of stem cells yet, which we can now generate out of skin cells BTW, they don't (In fact never really did) come from aborted foetuses. This is why we can't have nice things!

So in short, get rid of lobby groups, (the average person doesn't really need them these days, we can E mail our representatives) and the world gets 100% better over night

 

[Paladin2905]

The tax that really gets on my nerves here in the US is property taxes. While I do think there should be some tax on owned land, I think it is silly that you have a disincentive to actually improve your house. Crazy that actually doing some back breaking landscaping work for yourself could result in you paying more every year to own it.

Otherwise... taxes are just necessary for the things that need to be government run. I'm not crazy about income taxes and sales taxes (though I'm happy sales tax is waived for some foods and clothing in certain states); but the gov't does need money to run. We've got a serious problem with overspending in government, so I can't see eliminating taxes as helping that.

@suitepee7 - It's nice on paper, the problem with the flax tax though is that it doesn't scale up well. On a 10% tax like you describe someone earning $10k would pay $1k, and someone earning $100k would pay $10k. The 1k the first person owes is a lot more valuable than the 10k the second person owes- utility of money and all that jazz. I used to believe pretty strongly in a flat tax like you describe but this argument convinced me to change my mind; it's pretty solid economics.

 

[The Ubermensch]

so say you are a smoker, you pay taxes on tobacco. however if you then become very ill from smoking, you get treated on the NHS. in my eyes, cigarette taxes should be scrapped, let people buy them cheaper, but if they become ill as a direct result of smoking, they pay 100% for the treatment. that way people who do not smoke aren't potentially having some of their money put into the NHS for treating those who have become ill from smoking.

Make post mention tax on smokes, person above edits there's to include cigarettes just after I've hit the post button. Well played good sir! I'm a smoker and I find these terms logical and acceptable as long as I don't have to pay for the therapy and medical bills of some smashed up heroin or meth junkie.

Hey, should I not get health care because I ride a motorcycle too? Or because I drink alcohol?

Show me a person who doesn't take at least some risk with their health, and sir, I will show you a boring mother fucker

 

[MrStab]

so say you are a smoker, you pay taxes on tobacco. however if you then become very ill from smoking, you get treated on the NHS. in my eyes, cigarette taxes should be scrapped, let people buy them cheaper, but if they become ill as a direct result of smoking, they pay 100% for the treatment. that way people who do not smoke aren't potentially having some of their money put into the NHS for treating those who have become ill from smoking.

Make post mention tax on smokes, person above edits there's to include cigarettes just after I've hit the post button. Well played good sir! I'm a smoker and I find these terms logical and acceptable as long as I don't have to pay for the therapy and medical bills of some smashed up heroin or meth junkie.

Hey, should I not get health care because I ride a motorcycle too? Or because I drink alcohol?

Show me a person who doesn't take at least some risk with their health, and sir, I will show you a boring mother fucker

Heroin and meth are both illicit unless you were referring to the smoking thing. and I can see both sides of the argument there and if they removed the smoking tax I'd think it was acceptable for us not to get covered by the public system for shit that smokes fuck up in our bodies but with how heavily they tax it now it's right for us to be covered.