Humor: When does comedy cross the line and turn into bullying?

[fibchopkin]

So, A few days ago a fellow posted a thread and asked us whether we'd ever been bullied. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I think most us can probably answer "Yes, I have been bullied at least once." Today, Lisa Foiles posted her top 5 Worst Cosplay video, and a lot of people (including me) feel like it crossed the line. Alot of people think it was just a humorous one shot and nothing to get offended about.

************************************************************************************************************************************************ Please don't misunderstand me, this is not a thread to discuss that video in particular, the place to do that is here [link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.410298-Top-5-with-Lisa-Foiles-Top-5-Worst-Cosplay[/link] if you so desire.

************************************************************************************************************************************************

So my question is this: When does comedy cross the line into bullying? or do you believe that it never can? Are there any topics that should never be joked about in a public setting? If so, what are they?

Personally- I never, ever find rape or domestic violence to be humorous topics. What about the rest of you?

 

[Glongpre]

It is bullying when it's purpose is to hurt the individual in someway. Most people I know are always making fun of each other but there is no intention to hurt.

 

[generals3]

So my question is this: When does comedy cross the line into bullying? or do you believe that it never can? Are there any topics that should never be joked about in a public setting? If so, what are they?

Personally- I never, ever find rape or domestic violence to be humorous topics. What about the rest of you?

i'm one of those libertarians when it comes to jokes. There is no such thing as "crossing the line" subject wise. If you have a good joke about rape, fire away! What determines whether a line is crossed is the objective of said "jokes". If you continuously make "sensitive" jokes towards someone who obviously doesn't think it's funny one might start thinking the intent is to bully and not joke around.

 

[fibchopkin]

It is bullying when it's purpose is to hurt the individual in someway. Most people I know are always making fun of each other but there is no intention to hurt.

Let me preface this post by saying: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, I was honestly surprised at the reaction to the top 5 video and I'm curious about what you (and others) think.


Does that mean that you think it's okay to call someone ugly or stupid if you're really and truly just joking with them? Even if your words hurt their feelings pretty badly, but you only intended to play around, does that make it okay?

 

[Xan Krieger]

I actually reported Lisa's post for being offensive as it did cross the line and become bullying. Not everyone has the time, money, or materials to make perfect costumes so to make a video just to mock those people is just mean.

 

[DugMachine]

Bullying to me is constant and down right mean harassment of an individual whether it be about their looks, beliefs, hobbies etc.

What Lisa did was point out people with down right bad cosplay and make some light hearted jokes. I think the only reason people got upset is because she said "Sailor Size of the Moon" or something along those lines. And you know what? That was fucking funny, and I used to be a very fat person. That particular guy was obviously doing it as a joke and I'm sure he knows he's the butt of countless bad cosplay jokes. I highly doubt a middle aged fat man has such a passion for sailor moon that he'd cry if he saw Lisa's video.

People need to lighten the hell up and get past high school already. Jokes =/= bullying. If Lisa said "Look at that fatty mc fat fat FAT fuck" but she didn't. She made a joke

edit: I used the expression "down right" twice in one post. God damn I'm such a southerner

 

[fibchopkin]

Bullying to me is constant and down right mean harassment of an individual whether it be about their looks, beliefs, hobbies etc.

What Lisa did was point out people with down right bad cosplay and make some light hearted jokes. I think the only reason people got upset is because she said "Sailor Size of the Moon" or something along those lines. And you know what? That was fucking funny, and I used to be a very fat person. That particular guy was obviously doing it as a joke and I'm sure he knows he's the butt of countless bad cosplay jokes. I highly doubt a middle aged fat man has such a passion for sailor moon that he'd cry if he saw Lisa's video.

People need to lighten the hell up and get past high school already. Jokes =/= bullying. If Lisa said "Look at that fatty mc fat fat FAT fuck" but she didn't. She made a joke

Wow- you seem very vehement about this subject. I'd like to say that I didn't intend this thread for the "that guy's opinion is dumber than mine, so he should just grow up" kinda vibe you're putting out here. You think it wasn't bullying, got it. I respect your opinion, but you should really head over to this thread [link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.410298-Top-5-with-Lisa-Foiles-Top-5-Worst-Cosplay[/link] if you're in the mood to tell people to "get past high school already." Not everyone thinks the same thing as you, and that's okay.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't think it's definitive, but someone once said something about it being bullying when you are joking at the expense of someone socially less powerful than you.

A homeless guy can make a joke about a millionaire without it being bullying, the other way around, not so much.

 

[DugMachine]

Wow- you seem very vehement about this subject. I'd like to say that I didn't intend this thread for the "that guy's opinion is dumber than mine, so he should just grow up" kinda vibe you're putting out here. You think it wasn't bullying, got it. I respect your opinion, but you should really head over to this thread [link]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.410298-Top-5-with-Lisa-Foiles-Top-5-Worst-Cosplay[/link] if you're in the mood to tell people to "get past high school already." Not everyone thinks the same thing as you, and that's okay.

Sorry. I'm very blunt about things like this. I have already posted in that thread and I went off on a rant because I hate how people can act like "sheeple" when one person disagrees and the rest follow in agreement.

Anyways, back on topic. Having experienced bullying I didn't really mind being called fat. It's what I was and I was fat because I was lazy, ate like shit and never exercised. Obviously I didn't like it pointed out and it really bothered me when someone was actively trying to make my life hell by being mean to me just because I was fat.

Friends would call me "that fat guy" in a group and I thought it was funny because usually in a group of friends, there is that one fat guy. It was a funny observation and I laughed. When I 'tried' to look skinnier by always wearing black shirts and somebody pointed it out, I also laughed because that's exactly what I was doing.

To me there is a difference between observations/funny stereotypes about fat people and say grabbing a fat person's rolls and squeezing them, grabbing their man boobs etc.

It's not something I can really explain to be honest. Malicious intent / light hearted joking is a fine line it truly is.

 

[Glongpre]

It is bullying when it's purpose is to hurt the individual in someway. Most people I know are always making fun of each other but there is no intention to hurt.

Does that mean that you think it's okay to call someone ugly or stupid if you're really and truly just joking with them? Even if your words hurt their feelings pretty badly, but you only intended to play around, does that make it okay?

Yes because likely you will stop if you care about that person. I think they would understand, like I said it depends on your intention.

 

[fibchopkin]

Sorry. I'm very blunt about things like this. I have already posted in that thread and I went off on a rant because I hate how people can act like "sheeple" when one person disagrees and the rest follow in agreement.

Anyways, back on topic. Having experienced bullying I didn't really mind being called fat. It's what I was and I was fat because I was lazy, ate like shit and never exercised. Obviously I didn't like it pointed out and it really bothered me when someone was actively trying to make my life hell by being mean to me just because I was fat.

No worries. We all step up on the soap box occasionally.

I feel a bit differently from you about getting called "fat" though. I was pretty overweight for a while (a long while- like 3 years) after I got back from Iraq and got pregnant. I had to have a series of surgeries and was on my ass for about 10 months after the birth of my son. I was already depressed, I'd gone from a lifetime of athleticism and a pretty excellent military career to a high-risk pregnancy which mandated bed rest, followed by a long period of recovering from surgeries to my back and core. Not to mention I was totally clueless as to kids and felt like a useless lump because all I could do was sit and watch my (equally busy, also a soldier) husband wait hand and foot on me and our new son. When I was finally able to go out of the house for the first time by myself, I strapped my (almost one year old) son into the car and headed to (where else?) Gamestop. I was so excited to be able to get out, to feel human again, and about 10 minutes after I set foot in the door, a dudebro's gf who was clearly very not happy to have been dragged along to the game store said, very loudly, "See, that's why I don't play games Trenton. Do you want me to end up fat and barely able to push a stroller?" It shouldn't have hurt. I never saw the girl again, and besides, I had a beautiful son and an amazing husband. Why should I care? I don't know, but I did. That girl didn't think twice about me or my circumstances. It never occurred to her that I'd watched friends die in Iraq, that I'd almost lost my pregnancy, or that I'd had to have the remains of some metal shards dug out of my back and couldn't move around without pain. She saw a fat girl in a game store and made a snap judgement.

We see the pics of those people on the Top 5 and we have no idea if that Mega-man guy was going through something terrible and strapped those jugs on because he thought it was fun and funny and made him feel better about his crappy situation. We have no idea if that girl in the "cat-girl" costume just spent the year watching a family member die of cancer, and putting on that furry bikini made her feel better. Obviously I made those scenarios up, but it's not so crazy to think they may be true. I just know how I felt when that girl in gamestop reduced me to a bad stereotype with a few words, trivializing everything I'd done in the past two and a half years, and I wonder how it makes those cosplayers feel to see themselves displayed as a joke for the public.

 

[wearesoneutralthatithurts]

dont liek to make fun about people who getting shunned already-eg fat sailor-moon cosplayers. why the fuck does think society it can decide wheter to make shit comments or anything about the size of other people (and then getting away with no kritique.)
dont kick someone who lays just flat on the ground, who cant go outside and eat like normal persons witout haveing random fucks making inappropriate bullshit-comments without knowing you. (and even if there is "good" intents.. here in germany there is a saying: ratschläge sind auch schläge. (might say like "good meant advise doeth hurt"-its a play on schlag (hitting someone) and ratschlag (advice)-so advices can feel like a verbal beating. And beatings dont get people to become better-they made people feel worse, depressive, insecure,s cared-so they eat more or becoming a recluse. yay. nobody is helped, someone is deeply affected and some other people can get on with their lifes because the shit they give other people doesnt come back..

if the people which do this stuff would actually affected like their victims-i am not sure whether they continue..because nobody wants advice by strangers (do more sport-and what is if the person does sport already= what is, if the person need medication which impacts weight? and there are a few things which suggest that about 60% of the weight is genetically determined, some burn food rather quick, other get fat. and also there was the interesting observation that people which have a other composed bacterial fauna in their colon get fat more easier. (they tested that with mice-some mice had other bacteria in their guts and got more fat-and if they got bacteria form mice which didnt became fat as fast as the other-they started to loose weight. (and all mice had, i think rather similar intake.)

so-there is much to think before talking but people dont do. people like easy-and-good-world myths which say that you eran what you get and that you can become everything and such. which is bullshit-and usually privileged people love these myths and apply them on people which havent had the same backround&co.

so, yeah, satire shoudl be allowed-but satire shouldnt be about people-at leats not about normal people outside the spotlight which just want to live their life, cosplay as the character they love and -especially dont want unwanted Bs shoved down their throat by privileged people who dont know them.


gosh its so late. 2:37 am. i have.to.sleep. my brain becomes much more incoherent as its normally

 

[Abomination]

Bullying usually requires actually confronting the individual in a manner they can not avoid.

A video on the internet done once isn't exactly meet this criteria as it's not as though the Fat Sailor is having it rubbed in his face.

Then again I did find this episode to be in poor taste, it was shooting fish in a barrel. None of them were taking it seriously... apart from those cat girls and in those cases while I admire their confidence to dress up in such a manner in public I wouldn't call it the wisest of decisions.

 

[NightmareExpress]

I would imagine when it affects somebody in a bad manner.
Or more specifically, if it was a deliberate act at the expense of another person that has the potential to tarnish their character and negatively affect them in other ways.

But there's a razor thin line between "making fun" and what one might call bullying.
Often, if the situation is heated enough, the jokes that are said to "make fun" can all too easily turn into malevolent bullying with the sole purpose for the other person to feel lesser.

But that would require one to know the person.
If it's somebody random that you're using to get a laugh from, you don't know how they feel.
You're making fun of them, and at worst it would be humor in poor taste. Because one doesn't know the affected individual, the affected individual may never know what transpired and for all you know they could laugh about it too. Continuation or participation with the knowledge that it does affect the person negatively would be bullying.

So...it comes down to knowledge and intent, I guess.
You can't really bully if you don't know and don't intend to be cruel.

 

[DugMachine]

snip

Wowza. I'm very sorry to hear about that girl, that truly was just someone being a mean person. If I were in your position I would have been equally hurt by the comment.

As for the Top 5. It's not that I don't see where people are coming from. I get that maybe there is a chance those people would be hurt by her video if they saw it. To me though, in my head, when I see "bad cosplay" I assume the people do it as a joke. I assume that when you tape water jugs and cardboard to yourself you're ready and willing to be the butt of jokes. Not always the case and I understand this. It's just how I see the whole situation and why I think people are blowing it out of proportion.

 

[fibchopkin]

snip

Wowza. I'm very sorry to hear about that girl, that truly was just someone being a mean person. If I were in your position I would have been equally hurt by the comment.

As for the Top 5. It's not that I don't see where people are coming from. I get that maybe there is a chance those people would be hurt by her video if they saw it. To me though, in my head, when I see "bad cosplay" I assume the people do it as a joke. I assume that when you tape water jugs and cardboard to yourself you're ready and willing to be the butt of jokes. Not always the case and I understand this. It's just how I see the whole situation and why I think people are blowing it out of proportion.

Yeah, sometimes people suck- and the worst part of it is, before I had all the crazy stuff happen to me- I think I might have done equally sucky stuff, and never even realized it because my intent wasn't to hurt, it was to be funny or to make a point. I'm a bit more cognizant of the ramifications now.

I see your point on the bad cosplay- You automatically assumed that the people in the video dressed up that way to purposefully get laughs, so what's that harm in laughing? and I automatically assumed they dressed up that way for other reasons.

To be a hundred percent honest, I probably would not have liked the video and thought it inappropriate no matter what, but I didn't feel actively disgusted by it until she flashed a pic of a bruised domestic violence victim (Rhianna). As I said in the OP- I always find said jokes to be in very poor taste.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

It is bullying when it's purpose is to hurt the individual in someway. Most people I know are always making fun of each other but there is no intention to hurt.

Let me preface this post by saying: I'm not trying to be inflammatory here, I was honestly surprised at the reaction to the top 5 video and I'm curious about what you (and others) think.


Does that mean that you think it's okay to call someone ugly or stupid if you're really and truly just joking with them? Even if your words hurt their feelings pretty badly, but you only intended to play around, does that make it okay?

But if the purpose isn't to hurt someone it's not bullying which was what he is getting at. I have a friend I met in college and the first thing I said to him was "Who is this pedophile passing out candy?", and that was it we were friends since then. We have been in screaming matches saying the most harshest things we can thing of Like how "I dug his mother up cracked her open like a cold one and filled her with life like the dirty **** river women she is", and he would retort about how "my tarness would stick to everything i touched and covered in **** all day because of it". That's just a sample of it, another time we were behind a asian mart screaming at each other about what the other would do to a butterfly (I said he would have real first for the first time in years, and he said i would have it as a pet and kill it with my tar).

So I honestly don't think there is a line to cross as long as it's intention was not to hurt someone. That is a problem because outside of our circle of friends it would seem vulger and offensive to a "PC" person with out insults, but to us we laugh and go watch a movie. And I also trailer my jokes based on person to person. Got a friend who can't deal with public embarrassment, do something to embarrasses him like run my hands through his hair and make lewd suggestions. But he knows I'm kidding, and I don't do it to hurt him.

So end of story it's just the intention of the joke, everything is funny.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

I generally understand Lisa's videos to be mostly nonsensical and not of interest to me whatsoever, and I am allergic to fake grins sold as smiles, so I eventually stopped watching her material.

So - while I cannot judge her material because I haven't seen it ever since the second or so of this latest batch, I also cannot properly judge her material because I am simply not compatible with or very sympathetic towards it. It does not make sense to me, it has less and less to do with video games and it's just her doing her routine which seems to tickle me in a very Ray William Johnson way. That's not a very good way, by the way.

All I have to say is that I am not very surprised to see that her latest exploit featuring cosplayers overstepped the line and is considered offensive, at least by some of her still regular viewers.

I do wish her all the best, but I really can't stomach automated smiles that get recycled to infinity and beyond. I stay away from them as I stay away from people using them, call it one of my personal little luxuries. I am not trying to be nasty, snarky or evil here. I just know that fake smiles and people using them bring out the worst in me, in absolutely no time.

 

[Yopaz]

Bullying to me is constant and down right mean harassment of an individual whether it be about their looks, beliefs, hobbies etc.

What Lisa did was point out people with down right bad cosplay and make some light hearted jokes. I think the only reason people got upset is because she said "Sailor Size of the Moon" or something along those lines. And you know what? That was fucking funny, and I used to be a very fat person. That particular guy was obviously doing it as a joke and I'm sure he knows he's the butt of countless bad cosplay jokes. I highly doubt a middle aged fat man has such a passion for sailor moon that he'd cry if he saw Lisa's video.

People need to lighten the hell up and get past high school already. Jokes =/= bullying. If Lisa said "Look at that fatty mc fat fat FAT fuck" but she didn't. She made a joke

edit: I used the expression "down right" twice in one post. God damn I'm such a southerner

I do kinda agree with you, but I think that the time part of it changes a little when you use it in an internet article or a video. It is constant because it's out there for anyone to see. It's possible for both friends and family to witness your public humiliation.

That said, this video wasn't really making fun of individuals, it wasn't harassment. She didn't call people out for being ugly or for anything else, she made fun of obviously bad cosplay and while it might have been a little mean it was mostly lighthearted jokes. As for the cat girl cosplay she even pointed out that pretty much no-one can make it work.

OT: I was bullied for about 9 years, comments like this don't bother me. There are a couple of slightly embarrassing videos of me online from some school projects, but I'm not ashamed of that. Those were decisions I made and things I enjoyed doing. I know I look stupid and that anyone can access that at any time, but it doesn't bother me in any way.

When I was bullied I felt like I was being targeted for no other reason than that I wasn't as close to the other kids (I lived some distance away from the majority) and that I was singled out because of where I lived. It made me skip school on several occasions, my sister had it so bad she tried to switch schools at some point. I have lived through both some internet bullying and some real life bullying. If I had to pick I'd rather have some jokes made about the performance in the videos made for school projects than my first 9 years of school.