I don't think Heroes of the Storm is a good enough game to support an eSports community.

[SlumlordThanatos]

So I happened to see something interesting on the dashboard of my Battle.net client. Apparently, Heroes of the Storm managed to get an tournament going on ESPN3. This was rather surprising to me, because I was rather disappointed with my time in the HotS beta. The game placed such a heavy emphasis on teamwork, I never felt like I could carry a game by myself, like I could in League of Legends or DotA. You lived or died on your teammates, and it is even more true here than it is in any other MOBA.

And while that may make for a good competitive MOBA, it doesn't do very well when you try to play solo, and I can see the game's community migrating elsewhere once the novelty has worn off.

Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[SoreWristed]

I believe it depends entirely on the players. Wether they want to keep going once the novelty wears off. An esports factor might drive more new players towards the game. I think Blizzards money and rep might have had a lot to do with the game getting an esports tournament this soon. The same thing happened with Hearthstone, there were tournaments all over twitch once the game hit shelves.

I'm quite interested to see the tournament myself, since the game is so team driven. A team now might consist of mediocre players who work very good together, instead of five superskilled lone wolves.

 

[DoPo]

The game placed such a heavy emphasis on teamwork, I never felt like I could carry a game by myself, like I could in League of Legends or DotA. You lived or died on your teammates, and it is even more true here than it is in any other MOBA.

IMHO, being able to carry the game by yourself is a bad thing. At least for DotA - if that happens in a game it means that your team is bad or the enemy team is bad (not an exclusive or) - at any rate you're not playing a fair match.

five superskilled lone wolves.

Yes, teams like these are supposed to fail. It's true enough for any game with tournaments I have seen - from CS to DotA.

Anyway, as it happens I played Heroes of the Storm just tonight - finished my first (official) match right now, in fact. Overall, it was OK, I think I'll need to see more of it in order to say more than that, but the team aspect seems OK. We lost because we lacked it and I thought it fair - we were on par with kills throughout the whole game but the enemies had already won by minute 15 because they were organised (the actual game lasted a bit more than 30 minutes).

The game does seem more "shallow" than Dota but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. There is some additional "side" depth that is achieved with the neutral camps and the map objectives - they do promote more teamplay and tactical decisions. Whether that's enough to provide an interesting eSports experience, I'm not sure as I've yet to see what the heroes are truly capable of.

 

[The Madman]

I disagree, I've been playing Hots for a while now and while I very much doubt it will ever grow to nearly the size it's main competitors Dota and LoL, I can certainly see it finding it's own niche in the market.

For one it's faster paced and more action packed, with team fights and 1v1 duels far more common than in either of its main competitors. It's got shorter matches, usually between 15-30 minutes at most. And as you say one player can't carry an entire team, Hots requires teamwork, but even so one player can certainly stand out and make all the difference between two otherwise even teams. The visuals are also far more easy to follow I find and the map diversity makes for a nice change of pace from watching the same map over and over and over and over and over.

The increased simplicity of design and lack of objects and such also ensures Hots is far more friendly to newcomers, which some hold as a strike against Hots but which also ensures it's far more easy to follow and understand for someone seeking casual entertainment.

In any case I'm not sure I'd ever throw much money at Blizzard for Hots, certainly not with some of their ridiculous prices, but it's made for a fun game to play ever now and again even for someone generally not as fond of the genre as I am. I can totally see it having some esports followers even if it isn't the next 'big thing'.

 

[Fappy]

I played during Alpha and I kind of hated it. It doesn't help that I was already burned out on MOBAs after several years of LoL, but I found that it offered nothing that other MOBAs hadn't already done better. I am a fan of Blizzard's stuff, but I don't think its characters are iconic enough for the SSB-style crossover treatment.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

Personally, I think it's the maps that make the game rather then the characters, but having said that, they have something good going with some of their characters.
Sure, you can make the point that Stitches is basically Pudge, but the likes of Abathur and The Lost Vikings offer some pretty neat twists on the game.

As for the maps, I rather enjoy some of the gimmicks on it, Blackharts Bay is a really good one as it encourages both team fighting and usage of the neutral camps.
If they really want to sell the game, they should focus on that more and keep making more interesting ones like Sky Temple, though I do rather enjoy learning about all these new characters, seeing how i never really played any Blizzard games before Hearthstone.

 

[Rack]

Why wold that even matter? Do you think the DotA invitational was won by 1 super l77t player and a bunch of scrubs? At an e-sport level the idea of one person carrying the game is totally ludicrous. ALL the players are going to be at the highest level, that's pretty much the definition of the term.

You may not enjoy it as much because it doesn't massage your ego as much but that has mothing to do with the quality of the game as a whole.

 

[Lil_Rimmy]

This just in:

A TEAM BASED GAME that involves mainly teamwork and is less focused on a single player being the key to success while the others just try and back them up? WHO'D A THUNK IT!?

Srs doe, I really like HotS for several reasons. It doesn't have the bullshit last hit stand in lane for 15 minutes before something interesting happens of standard MOBAs, while still requiring lane control for XP. The team fights and 1v1 fights start basically right out the gate and if there is every a moment where there is not fighting or face-offs going down, something has gone wrong. The games go much faster, which means I can play more, playing 2-3 games in the time it takes me to play one LoL game. It also means that if a game is clearly going to be lost, but it will just take a while (fighting to the last defending each tower sort of plays) you don't have to sit through 20 minutes of slowly losing. You lose the match, ta da, the end, onto the next one. It's a quick turn around instead of the slow tilting of the scales in something like LoL until the point of no return (or comeback, I should say).

But lastly, the characters in HotS are actually really bloody fun. In LoL, your characters consist of: Someone who uses mana. Someone who uses an alternate type of manner. Someone who can shape change. And that's about it. There's a few differences but in the end, all of the characters play the same.

In HotS, there is a character that overlords other characters, basically piggy backing them to provide extra firepower and defence, and can clone them later on. There is a character that is three characters. Yay for Vikings. There is a character who dies and then respawns within three seconds as long as his egg exists, but he's just very weak.

All of this, combined with the fact that HotS games are about working as a team to control the map and use the map to your advantage make me watch to watch an eSports tournament of the best players playing HotS. It's a breath of fresh air with a fast and action packed game play style. It is good. Is don.

 

[Jandau]

It's going to do fine. Like Hearthstone, it's not going to take down the big dogs of e-sports (LoL, DOTA2, CS:GO, etc.), but it'll pull in respectable numbers, have its own following and bring in the money for Blizz. It's a good game, it's supported by one of the biggest developers on the planet (who are in turn backed by one of the biggest publishers), it draws from a number of popular and beloved franchises. Seriously, how's this even a question?

 

[Rattja]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports. I feel that a game for that should let everyone, new or experienced at least have the same possiblities and options from the beginning.
The grinding part of HotS is quite insane too actually (7-10k gold for many of the heroes and you get like 50-70 per game) so it feels a bit pay to win.
It's kinda like playing chess and not be allowed to use your queen until you have played 100 rounds, it would be silly.

One could argue that it is somewhat balanced, and that every hero is usable, but there will always be one that is just really good in every patch, and if you don't have that one you are out of luck. Also, if you are a person who really like a certain playstyle, but don't have accsess to the hero that plays like that, you are also kinda frelled unless you grind or pay.

I know many does not have a problem with it, but personally I think it's not a good model.

 

[Eddie the head]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports. I feel that a game for that should let everyone, new or experienced at least have the same possiblities and options from the beginning.
The grinding part of HotS is quite insane too actually (7-10k gold for many of the heroes and you get like 50-70 per game) so it feels a bit pay to win.
It's kinda like playing chess and not be allowed to use your queen until you have played 100 rounds, it would be silly.

One could argue that it is somewhat balanced, and that every hero is usable, but there will always be one that is just really good in every patch, and if you don't have that one you are out of luck. Also, if you are a person who really like a certain playstyle, but don't have accsess to the hero that plays like that, you are also kinda frelled unless you grind or pay.

I know many does not have a problem with it, but personally I think it's not a good model.

This has nothing to do with what you're saying. I just wanted to say I'm happy you said "frelled." Brought a smile to my face.

Anyway I guess it really doesn't need to if it can be profitable without it. Although I guess I'm not the one to talk to about this I don't care about E-sports. No wait I don't care about sports.

 

[Jandau]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports.

...you do realize that the biggest e-sports game right now, League of Legends, has a "grind or pay" model, right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan, but that model works just fine...

 

[DoPo]

It's kinda like playing chess and not be allowed to use your queen until you have played 100 rounds, it would be silly.

No queen or bishop. Only horse. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/10962-Mo-Russian]

I know many does not have a problem with it, but personally I think it's not a good model.

There is also the fact that you have to level up your hero (outside a match) to actually unlock all their abilities (inside a match). I don't know how much this takes, really, but it's something that annoyed me when I first realised it. Then again, I played a single match with a hero for the first time (plus a friend) and that gave me 3 hero levels + almost a fourth one in XP. I'm not sure how much this is, but if the heroes have, say like 10 levels, it may not be too bad.

 

[Vivi22]

The game placed such a heavy emphasis on teamwork, I never felt like I could carry a game by myself, like I could in League of Legends or DotA. You lived or died on your teammates, and it is even more true here than it is in any other MOBA.

If you can carry your team by yourself in any MOBA then you are either playing with/against some supremely shitty players or you are playing a terrible MOBA. So if your biggest complaint is that a team game relied heavily on teamwork then I'd say it'll do just fine in the competitive scene.

 

[Vivi22]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports.

...you do realize that the biggest e-sports game right now, League of Legends, has a "grind or pay" model, right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan, but that model works just fine...

Actually the model is extremely shitty and locks almost all players out of ever getting all of the content, and by extension, being able to play the full game at any time. That LoL is as big as it is is more in spite of the model, not because the model is effective. In fact, I daresay it's one of the more exploitative models out there when you tally up what the cost of getting even just every character would be.

 

[RJ 17]

A team based game that emphasizes consistent teamwork?! GOD FORBID! What blasphemy is this of which you speak?!

Really, though, I'm apparently failing to see your point, here. The best DotA teams play as...well...teams. The best LoL teams, again, emphasize their teamwork and synergy. Both games are full of dysfunctional PUGs/random groups - some end up working well together, others just sit and ***** at each other for failed ganks and farm stealing - and I've no doubt that HotS will be any different.

 

[laggyteabag]

Heroes of the Storm is more like Domination compared to League's Team Deathmatch. Like you said, you live or die by your team in HotS, and that is why I feel like Heroes of the Storm has more reason to have an eSports scene than any other MOBA out there.

 

[Jandau]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports.

...you do realize that the biggest e-sports game right now, League of Legends, has a "grind or pay" model, right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan, but that model works just fine...

Actually the model is extremely shitty and locks almost all players out of ever getting all of the content, and by extension, being able to play the full game at any time. That LoL is as big as it is is more in spite of the model, not because the model is effective. In fact, I daresay it's one of the more exploitative models out there when you tally up what the cost of getting even just every character would be.

I don't dispute that it's an exploitative model, never did. But it's an effective model.

I disagree that LoL is successful DESPITE the model. In fact, I'd argue that the model is a big part of the game's success. It dangles the carrot just close enough to get people to keep playing, frustrates just enough to motivate people to spend money, but not quite enough to drive them away. That's the insidiousness of it - the very things that are bad about it are the things that draw people in. Never underestimate the power of the grind...

 

[RJ 17]

I am a fan of Blizzard's stuff, but I don't think its characters are iconic enough for the SSB-style crossover treatment.

Blizzard better hope you're wrong, because from what I've seen that's literally the only thing HotS has going for it.

 

[Rattja]

Hm, I don't think any game with the grind or pay unlock method is a good game for Esports.

...you do realize that the biggest e-sports game right now, League of Legends, has a "grind or pay" model, right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan, but that model works just fine...

Yeah I do, and did not say it didn't work, just sayin I don't think it's a good way to do it as I feel it's somewhat wrong and unfair. But hey, that's just my opinion, and all those who supports LoL thinks otherwise I guess.