I have no ill feelings towards the casual market...

[Aircross]

...but I really dislike it when an IP that was originally made for a specific crowd is, for a lack of a better word, "dumbed down" to reach a wider audience that may not have been as interested in the original IP in the first place.

Said best here:

You misunderstand--most of us (the rational ones, at least) don't care that there are games/franchises created and targeted toward casual gamers. That's fine, and smart business. What we don't want is publishers altering, rather drastically in plenty of cases, an existing game/franchise originally created for a specific non-casual audience in order to sell the game/franchise as widely as possible (i.e. casuals.) It only pisses off the original fans, and the casuals are only going to stick with it until the next shiny appears.

Why don't developers just make a brand new IP that caters to a broader demographic instead of ruining what's already been established? (Yeah, yeah "ruining" is probably too strong a word.)


Example:

I am perfectly fine with League of Legends catering to a wider audience because it is a separate entity from DotA, but I would really, REALLY hate it if DotA is ever simplified to appeal to a bigger audience.

What do you feel about this?

 

[Zhukov]

Eh, I can't think of any examples of this terrible 'dumbing down' phenomena that have actually upset me.

Er... Deus Ex: Invisible War maybe? But that was a boring game anyway. No amount of inventory space or adding +1 to shootibility would have made it any better.

I don't hold it against developers/publishers for wanting to sell their product to people that haven't been playing games since they were four years old.

 

[Sixcess]

I hate it when MMO developers start 'streamlining' the content - usually in order to make the trip to endgame faster for new players. And then they wonder why people blow through the entire game in a month then complain that they've got nothing to do at endgame...

WoW: Cataclysm turned the entire vanilla 1-60 game into a mind numbing tutorial and guided tour where you're constantly herded along the designated levelling route, with ludicrous restrictions in place to prevent you going astray - like not being able to pick up quests above your level, and almost every boss being nerfed into insignificance and/or killed by a scripted event that you literally could not fail.

And then there was LOTRO, where the Mines of Moria was recently revamped because the layout was confusing and people got lost, and it was too dark.

Presumably in the next edition of the book that chapter will now be entitled "A [straightforward] Journey in the [not very] Dark."

 

[Smooth Operator]

Nor do I, some of my favorite games are completely casual.

I have a problem with people who start playing dumb and claim these games are any more then what they are, especially when devs do this and further more lie about it.
If you want to cut down this complex game for a broader audience then fine, but always tell the people who are already invested in the series exactly what you are doing.
Ofcourse a non lazy dev would keep the game on track and simply add a casual option that automates half the difficult stuff, devs often forget games have that unique ability of interactivity.

 

[Zhukov]

I don't hold it against developers/publishers for wanting to sell their product to people that haven't been playing games since they were four years old.

But do all the games need to be marketed towards 12 year olds and soccer moms now ?

Balance is the key. Different games for different people. Is that so hard to understand ?

What makes 12 year olds and soccer moms any less deserving than strategy fans or bitter middle-aged RPG snobs?

If it's okay to have different games for different people then why do folks insist on flinging shit at the games that are made for people who are different to them?

 

[Atrocious Joystick]

Games that shoots for a big budget generally has to have a wide appeal. It's not about trying to make every game the same, it's about the realization that a game that costs a lot of money to make has to make a lot of money and can't afford to be nichéd too much. Any AAA game need to be able to picked up and enjoyed by anyone, not just the people who enjoy a very particular type of gameplay.

There are lots of indie titles that are shooting for a smaller market that you can play.

 

[Epona]

I hate it when older games are ported to phones instead of legitimate handhelds. I only have one example right now though, Secret of Mana. I am sure there are other examples.

 

[scorptatious]

I sort of have mixed feelings on this issue. For one, I can understand people getting pissed at something like say, the demo for Resident Evil 6. From what I've seen through Youtube, the way Resi 6 works is very different from how previous Resi games were. Now it's almost indistinguishable from a standard third person shooter. At least the part where you play as Chris is anyway.

On the other hand, some games that some people say are "dumbed down" I happen to really like. Like Fallout: New Vegas. I personally find the game very fun and engaging with the amount of content, story, characters, and different ways to play there are.

I'm currently playing the first Fallout right now due to the interest in the series that has been sparked thanks to New Vegas. And while I am having fun with it so far, I'd be lying if I said that the user interface didn't feel kinda clunky to me. Sure, I did eventually get the hang of it, but I can see some people giving up on the game due to it's user interface.

I don't know. I just get a bit torn on this subject.

 

[OniaPL]

I don't mind it when people get games that suit what they want, but I do mind it when the entire industry is moving towards the singularity of "casual, jump in jump out accessible diiba daaba".

I mean, I don't mind that the "casuals" have their games, but it does piss me off when my games suffer from the market forces.

But that's not the fault of the people who like average casual games. Still, I do believe I have the right to be slightly annoyed at the way things are every now and then.

 

[Signa]

I want to say I have no ill feelings too, but I just get mad when I think about the practically orgasmic adventure I had in Morrowind, the mediocre experience in Oblivion, and the fact that nothing about Skyrim has inspired me to even try it. Who do I blame for that? Obviously Bethesda, but they are just trying to make money, so a lot of the blame seems mitigated from them. So who else?

I'm absolutely thrilled when I hear of someone who never would pick up a game starts playing. My mom picked up Plants vs Zombies for a little bit, and I heard my warehouse boss was playing Skyrim for a while. I guess I don't hate the casual market either. I just don't know who is at fault for making the things I love suck. Maybe it's just evolution, but I hate it.

 

[LetalisK]

I hate it when MMO developers start 'streamlining' the content - usually in order to make the trip to endgame faster for new players. And then they wonder why people blow through the entire game in a month then complain that they've got nothing to do at endgame...

WoW: Cataclysm turned the entire vanilla 1-60 game into a mind numbing tutorial and guided tour where you're constantly herded along the designated levelling route, with ludicrous restrictions in place to prevent you going astray - like not being able to pick up quests above your level, and almost every boss being nerfed into insignificance and/or killed by a scripted event that you literally could not fail.

And then there was LOTRO, where the Mines of Moria was recently revamped because the layout was confusing and people got lost, and it was too dark.

Presumably in the next edition of the book that chapter will now be entitled "A [straightforward] Journey in the [not very] Dark."

I actually believe it was in the recent interview of Greg Street by Escapist, but he pointed out that they try to keep the time from 1-Max level the same with each expansion.

 

[Risingblade]

None of the games I liked have ever suffered from that so I really dont' know :/

 

[Zeckt]

I hate it when MMO developers start 'streamlining' the content - usually in order to make the trip to endgame faster for new players. And then they wonder why people blow through the entire game in a month then complain that they've got nothing to do at endgame...

WoW: Cataclysm turned the entire vanilla 1-60 game into a mind numbing tutorial and guided tour where you're constantly herded along the designated levelling route, with ludicrous restrictions in place to prevent you going astray - like not being able to pick up quests above your level, and almost every boss being nerfed into insignificance and/or killed by a scripted event that you literally could not fail.

And then there was LOTRO, where the Mines of Moria was recently revamped because the layout was confusing and people got lost, and it was too dark.

Presumably in the next edition of the book that chapter will now be entitled "A [straightforward] Journey in the [not very] Dark."

I second this, it was as if they took the game out of the game and made the leveling into a non stop straight line of pop culture references and vehicle drivel. The vehicle thing was fun the first time in the starting area of WOTLK, now they have them BLOODY EVERYWHERE and make it so pointlessly easy where you press 2 keys and its about as fun as smashing your head into a wall. Oh, and that's all you need to do to kill stuff while levelling now. Even as a mage you can just stand there with whatever hitting you while you press one button because everything was so easy and the content so uninteresting. They made it into a job, and I like my free time spent having fun.

 

[Sixcess]

]I actually believe it was in the recent interview of Greg Street by Escapist, but he pointed out that they try to keep the time from 1-Max level the same with each expansion.

That sounds like something he'd say. I admit I didn't read that interview since I can't stand the man. It saddens me when MMO developers start talking about the levelling content as if it were an obstacle to the 'real' game, rather than an integral part of the game itself.

And the Moria revamp in LOTRO came about for much the same reason - it's a love it or hate it part of LOTRO and the people that hated it weren't levelling fast enough to be prepped for the next expansion. I can kind of see their point, I only wish they could come up with ways to keep the game-starts-at-endgame crowd happy without bastardising the levelling experience for the rest of us.

 

[The Lunatic]

I enjoy hardcore games, just an interest of mine.

Simulators, survival sandbox MMOs, etc.

So, yeah, it's kinda a shame to me that they're so niece and there's such little attempt by larger developers to break into the market.

Developers will always go where the money is, and people tend to want quick, easy, straight forward games.

 

[Vuliev]

What makes 12 year olds and soccer moms any less deserving than strategy fans or bitter middle-aged RPG snobs?

If it's okay to have different games for different people then why do folks insist on flinging shit at the games that are made for people who are different to them?

You misunderstand--most of us (the rational ones, at least) don't care that there are games/franchises created and targeted toward casual gamers. That's fine, and smart business. What we don't want is publishers altering, rather drastically in plenty of cases, an existing game/franchise originally created for a specific non-casual audience in order to sell the game/franchise as widely as possible (i.e. casuals.) It only pisses off the original fans, and the casuals are only going to stick with it until the next shiny appears.