I think I figured out why Mirror's Edge's story got butchered.

[doomed89]

Okay so Mirror's Edge is pretty much my favorite game this gen, and while I didn't find the story particularly bad it did seem rather thin and like stuff was missing. Especially considering how awesome the story looked from the story trailers, which content is nowhere to be found in the actual game, not even under an extra thing or anything.

Later I found out that the story was chopped up at the last minute although no real reason was given it did make sense, especially considering although mirror's Edge didn't look bad and played solid it didn't quite seem like it had the budget to expect 3 million sales. Not sure if this is because there was some hell development moments and bad budgeting or just EA being stupid and expecting way too much or a bit of both. Anyways so the story was cut and paste together and the majority was discarded for the final product which is why it was so meh despite the awesome concept, okay now that that question is answer one remains. Why?

Even more recently I started watching jimquisition (normally I just watch zero punctuation, and I don't agree with most of Jim Sterlings reviews or early articles but the jimquisitions I've watched so far seem to be more or less on point. One of them mentioned how gamers hate being a girl character so a female protagonist is a no-no and that the girl can never been seen kissing a guy because that's gay according to the big publishers and industry in general and I think that is reason why Mirror's Edge story got butchered so badly, they didn't want to remind the player that faith was a girl so they butchered the story and made a lower quality product because their focus groups were insecure.

Now while I admit I don't prefer playing as a girl, and when it's more of an avatar then a character I really shy away from it (ie I don't like playing the sorceress or amazon in diablo 2, and I don't think the character have enough of a story to justify not having both options for all character (They could of called amazon something else or have different names for female/male versions but still have them have the same stats and add a few more specific dialog to cover the extra gender specific and easily had both options with nothing lost to the game or story) but when it's an actual character with an actual story I mind it far less and I think even the ones who really don't like it who would even go so far as to say they hate it would still buy a good game with a female main character so I find the whole thing just plain stupid, that said I do honestly think it's the reason why Mirror's Edge story was butchered and many other stories in gaming as well in a less direct way.

Thoughts?

EDIT: I should really put the story trailers up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw2IWozRQWg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hBJGsA86L4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1sMQPvTSZU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mvQGF76mlM

There's no reason some of this content couldn't be in the game especially the prequel stuff with faith training.

 

[MysticSlayer]

It was made by DICE. When was the last time they made a good story that wasn't just a ripoff of another game? Never. They're good at delivering solid gameplay, but they still haven't been able to get down storytelling. Not to mention, Mirror's Edge was one of their first attempts at actual storytelling. I don't expect a multiplayer team to nail storytelling that early.

 

[doomed89]

It was made by DICE. When was the last time they made a good story that wasn't just a ripoff of another game? Never. They're good at delivering solid gameplay, but they still haven't been able to get down storytelling. Not to mention, Mirror's Edge was one of their first attempts at actual storytelling. I don't expect a multiplayer team to nail storytelling that early.

There was an article (one that I can't find because of Mirror's Edge 2 announcement, why are old articles so hard to find on the internet?) that stated that the majority of the content in Mirror's Edge was taken out, and frankly the story did seem incomplete more then bad. Also the story trailers were awesome you should check them out.

 

[doomed89]

its the bad part of the new digital age, people say everything that is put online is there forever, but frankly if an entire website still exists in 6 months its a miracle

Well to be fair I have found a lot of old stuff in the past, but you never know when it will be taken down and old stuff is extremely hard to find unless you can remember words specific to the article phrasing and such. Also I remember MS actively taken down polls and studies about the 360 failurate on mass.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

They brought in a talented writer in Rhianna Pratchett but basically had her do the story as the last possible thing in the development process, meaning the story had to fit the game rather than work with it. She was, I believe, also uninformed about some basic game foundations that nullified a lot of the script she wrote. The publishers hacked apart what was left and came up with a lackluster storyline that hints at too many tantalising ideas that will probably never be addressed.

 

[Zhukov]

They brought in a talented writer in Rhianna Pratchett but basically had her do the story as the last possible thing in the development process, meaning the story had to fit the game rather than work with it. She was, I believe, also uninformed about some basic game foundations that nullified a lot of the script she wrote. The publishers hacked apart what was left and came up with a lackluster storyline that hints at too many tantalising ideas that will probably never be addressed.

Yeah, this.

She's on the record about this. They brought her in when the game was already half finished, expecting her to somehow conjure up a functional story. Then they had to chop it up to fit it to what they already had. It wasn't anything to do with Faith being female.

Although personally I am yet to be convinced of Rhianna Pratchett's abilities as a writer.

 

[doomed89]

She's on the record about this. They brought her in when the game was already half finished, expecting her to somehow conjure up a functional story. Then they had to chop it up to fit it to what they already had. It wasn't anything to do with Faith being female.

Although personally I am yet to be convinced of Rhianna Pratchett's abilities as a writer.

I believe she was brought in half way but I don't beleive that everything she had was cut because it didn't fit the game, one of her newer comments on the game (after saying she's not on ME2 staff) was that 90% of the dialog was cut out because the testers didn't like a disembodied voice or whatever but tons of first person games have had taking characters with comments so I'm thinking atleast some of the content was because of the girl thing.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

They brought in a talented writer in Rhianna Pratchett but basically had her do the story as the last possible thing in the development process, meaning the story had to fit the game rather than work with it. She was, I believe, also uninformed about some basic game foundations that nullified a lot of the script she wrote. The publishers hacked apart what was left and came up with a lackluster storyline that hints at too many tantalising ideas that will probably never be addressed.

Yeah, this.

She's on the record about this. They brought her in when the game was already half finished, expecting her to somehow conjure up a functional story. Then they had to chop it up to fit it to what they already had. It wasn't anything to do with Faith being female.

Although personally I am yet to be convinced of Rhianna Pratchett's abilities as a writer.

She's not her father but she has a good pedigree and has done some excellent work on her own. She wrote the dialogue for Prince of Persia (2008) which is one of the best examples of male-female dialogue that is both humorous and realistic. I haven't played the new Tomb Raider yet but I look forward to her work in it.

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

because the testers didn't like a disembodied voice or whatever but tons of first person games have had taking characters with comments so I'm thinking atleast some of the content was because of the girl thing.

Based on what?

I'm not trying to deny that the industry and its audience have issues with female characters, because they most certainly do, but I don't see any reason why this is an example of such. You're just pulling it out of your arse.

[snip]

She's not her father but she has a good pedigree and has done some excellent work on her own. She wrote the dialogue for Prince of Persia (2008) which is one of the best examples of male-female dialogue that is both humorous and realistic. I haven't played the new Tomb Raider yet but I look forward to her work in it.

Prince of Persia 2008, really? I mean, it wasn't horrible, I even vaguely remember it being amusing on occasion, but I wouldn't wave it around as evidence of someone being a talented writer.

The new Tomb Raider was also merely okay. Not terrible, but not remotely memorable either.

I don't think Ms Pratchett is a bad writer, but I've yet to see any evidence that she's above average.

(Also, she must get so very sick of being compared to her dad.)

 

[doomed89]

[snip]

because the testers didn't like a disembodied voice or whatever but tons of first person games have had taking characters with comments so I'm thinking atleast some of the content was because of the girl thing.

Based on what?

I'm not trying to deny that the industry and its audience have issues with female characters, because they most certainly do, but I don't see any reason why this is an example of such. You're just pulling it out of your arse.

Honestly it's more of a theory then an example and it's based on nothing else makes sense.

 

[Voulan]

The story and the whole concept wasn't bad, it was just incomplete and left many questions unanswered. We were dropped into the story without much explanation at all, other than that "the government turned the world into a clean, crime-free place because of extensive surveillance", but were not told whether this was an inherently bad thing. There was no evidence in the world that suggested sinister intentions at all, since we saw nothing outside of the paths Faith took for her job. We weren't even told if people actually liked this new world, or whether the "government is evil and exploitative" idea is a biased view from the Runners themselves. Most importantly, we have no idea if the Runners were good guys or not - what they deliver and who for was completely left out of the details.

If they cover those details, they'd have a pretty interesting morality-questioning game. However, both sides were completely ambiguous and unexplained, so there was no way the player can anchor themselves in the story at all. Having the freedom to choose is key, I think, to a game that explores these themes.

 

[doomed89]

The story and the whole concept wasn't bad, it was just incomplete and left many questions unanswered. We were dropped into the story without much explanation at all, other than that "the government turned the world into a clean, crime-free place because of extensive surveillance", but were not told whether this was an inherently bad thing. There was no evidence in the world that suggested sinister intentions at all, since we saw nothing outside of the paths Faith took for her job. We weren't even told if people actually liked this new world, or whether the "government is evil and exploitative" idea is a biased view from the Runners themselves. Most importantly, we have no idea if the Runners were good guys or not - what they deliver and who for was completely left out of the details.

If they cover those details, they'd have a pretty interesting morality-questioning game. However, both sides were completely ambiguous and unexplained, so there was no way the player can anchor themselves in the story at all. Having the freedom to choose is key, I think, to a game that explores these themes.

The story trailers (which I watched before playing the game) does fill in some of that, but even those don't tell the whole story, and I'm amazed I even figured out that the runner guy, the bad one, what was his name again? Anyways at the end of the game when he said you can't live on the edge forever faithy sooner or later you have to jump, I figured out that he is faiths ex (thus the pet name and faith not wanting to see him and seeming to know alot about each other) so that also contributes to the guys won't want to be a girl kissing a guy thought I had.

But considering the cops started shooting at unarmed couriers with swat squads I think we can assume they are abusing their powers. In the story trailers it also says "if your moneys good and your reps not poison" so I assume they don't work with the worst of the worst but probably do some work for bad guys but their main clients seem to be more political then criminal.

EDIT I linked the story trailers.

 

[Voulan]

The story trailers (which I watched before playing the game) does fill in some of that, but even those don't tell the whole story, and I'm amazed I even figured out that the runner guy, the bad one, what was his name again? Anyways at the end of the game when he said you can't live on the edge forever faithy sooner or later you have to jump, I figured out that he is faith's ex (thus the pet name and faith not wanting to see him and seeming to know alot about each other) so that also contributes to the guys won't want to be a girl kissing a guy thought I had.

But considering the cops started shooting at unarmed couriers with swat squads I think we can assume they are abusing their powers. In the story trailers it also says "if your moneys good and your reps not poison" so I assume they don't work with the worst of the worst but probably do some work for bad guys but their main clients seem to be more political then criminal.

Too true that sending SWAT for a single person, and apparently with the orders to kill on sight, does scream power-abusing. But we are barely given context for it, other than that apparently Runners are bad. But maybe the government trying to get rid of them is because the Runners are actually bad? For all we know, they're transporting weapon goods for terrorist groups. I mean, Faith's sister Kate works for the Police, the complete opposite of what Faith does, and seems intent on making the city a better place. Perhaps it is because the government is bad and she believes that somehow she can make it less corrupt, or the Runners are actually a threat to the city. I get the impression we are supposed to assume that authority is corrupt in this game, but again, we have no real evidence to suggest this. I mean, the city is beautiful and meticulously clean!

I can't remember how, but much earlier on than the ending we are hinted to that Faith and that guy (I've also forgotten his name, funny that) were once a couple, and they had a nasty break-up. It could very well be that this was included in the original plot and their relationship was broken by his defecting to the government, but we can't know for sure as to why and how.

It is really sad just how little we are told about the game world that even minute details are speculative at best, like Faith's past relationship.

 

[doomed89]

Too true that sending SWAT for a single person, and apparently with the orders to kill on sight, does scream power-abusing. But we are barely given context for it, other than that apparently Runners are bad. But maybe the government trying to get rid of them is because the Runners are actually bad? For all we know, they're transporting weapon goods for terrorist groups. I mean, Faith's sister Kate works for the Police, the complete opposite of what Faith does, and seems intent on making the city a better place. Perhaps it is because the government is bad and she believes that somehow she can make it less corrupt, or the Runners are actually a threat to the city. I get the impression we are supposed to assume that authority is corrupt in this game, but again, we have no real evidence to suggest this. I mean, the city is beautiful and meticulously clean!

I can't remember how, but much earlier on than the ending we are hinted to that Faith and that guy (I've also forgotten his name, funny that) were once a couple, and they had a nasty break-up. It could very well be that this was included in the original plot and their relationship was broken by his defecting to the government, but we can't know for sure as to why and how.

It is really sad just how little we are told about the game world that even minute details are speculative at best, like Faith's past relationship.

You can't do hardcore constant parkour with "weapon goods" lol at most there could be a hand gun and even if they were wouldn't they try at least some methods of capturing them alive before just sicking a whole group of swat on them, messengers who I might add are just messengers and don't even know what they are carrying, oh and also don't officially exist. I get they don't give context for why the government is abusing their power but they do show clearly that the government is abusing their power. Especially with the Kate frame up.

It wasn't so much hinted at, as it was the player missing content and context, which again makes me think everything faith and him related background wise was taken out and yeah it is, which is why I don't buy the taken out because it doesn't fit with the game, when I have seen story related content in the trailers that wasn't in the game so obviously was taken out that fits perfectly with the game.

 

[Voulan]

You can't do hardcore constant parkour with "weapon goods" lol at most there could be a hand gun and even if they were wouldn't they try at least some methods of capturing them alive before just sicking a whole group of swat on them, messengers who I might add are just messengers and don't even know what they are carrying, oh and also don't officially exist. I get they don't give context for why the government is abusing their power but they do show clearly that the government is abusing their power. Especially with the Kate frame up.

It wasn't so much hinted at, as it was the player missing content and context, which again makes me think everything faith and him related background wise was taken out and yeah it is, which is why I don't buy the taken out because it doesn't fit with the game, when I have seen story related content in the trailers that wasn't in the game so obviously was taken out that fits perfectly with the game.

This is a future sci-fi setting, weapon goods could be anything from actual guns and ammo to technological warfare like hacking or surveillance devices, or even biological things. No doubt at least some Runners would have to deal with bigger packages than just letters - if everything is so heavily watched as the game claims, transporting anything without Runners is going to be a big problem. I'm not insinuating that they're logging about nuclear war-heads as they're leaping about on rooftops, but we have no real idea. At any rate, they could be carrying messages to organize attacks or weapon deals. Without any context, there's just no saying how big the Runner operation really is. Original concept art shows another five runners at least, but we don't know if Runners are localized or a global initiative.

I'm not saying their relationship didn't fit into the game, just that it does appear to have been removed. I was actually agreeing with you there.

Anyway, maybe I'm just trying to add complexity and depth into the plot that doesn't exist. They'd be mad to make everything so black and white by saying government = bad, Runners = good, and leave it at that. Faith doesn't trust the government simply because she had no help and support from them as she grew up, but for all we know her views are completely biased. I think it just might be my love of the whole 'untrustworthy narrator or main character' narrative device that's trying to give it the benefit of the doubt.

But long story short, none of these details exist in the game, which makes its story pretty terrible. At least the gameplay wasn't sacrificed because of how rushed it seems to be.

 

[doomed89]

This is a future sci-fi setting, weapon goods could be anything from actual guns and ammo to technological warfare like hacking or surveillance devices, or even biological things. No doubt at least some Runners would have to deal with bigger packages than just letters - if everything is so heavily watched as the game claims, transporting anything without Runners is going to be a big problem. I'm not insinuating that they're logging about nuclear war-heads as they're leaping about on rooftops, but we have no real idea. At any rate, they could be carrying messages to organize attacks or weapon deals. Without any context, there's just no saying how big the Runner operation really is. Original concept art shows another five runners at least, but we don't know if Runners are localized or a global initiative.

I'm not saying their relationship didn't fit into the game, just that it does appear to have been removed. I was actually agreeing with you there.

Anyway, maybe I'm just trying to add complexity and depth into the plot that doesn't exist. They'd be mad to make everything so black and white by saying government = bad, Runners = good, and leave it at that. Faith doesn't trust the government simply because she had no help and support from them as she grew up, but for all we know her views are completely biased. I think it just might be my love of the whole 'untrustworthy narrator or main character' narrative device that's trying to give it the benefit of the doubt.

But long story short, none of these details exist in the game, which makes its story pretty terrible. At least the gameplay wasn't sacrificed because of how rushed it seems to be.

You are definitely reaching and again through the actions of the government it's clear they are bad, though I agree the context of why and how they are so corrupt is missing their actions does prove at least faith is closer to the right then they are. The farther you get in the game the clearer this becomes as a high ranking police officer miller shoots two guys in the back of the head to give faith a chance to save her sister.

 

[Amethyst Wind]

Prince of Persia 2008, really? I mean, it wasn't horrible, I even vaguely remember it being amusing on occasion, but I wouldn't wave it around as evidence of someone being a talented writer.

The dialogue between the Prince and Elika is leagues better than most videogame banter. That's what Pratchett wrote, not the story itself.

 

[Voulan]

You are definitely reaching and again through the actions of the government it's clear they are bad, though I agree the context of why and how they are so corrupt is missing their actions does prove at least faith is closer to the right then they are. The farther you get in the game the clearer this becomes as a high ranking police officer miller shoots two guys in the back of the head to give faith a chance to save her sister.

Absolutely. It's just that everything so fluid and indefinite that we can say almost anything and it can be true. We are clearly meant to hate the government and see them as bad guys based on their reaction to the player character, but otherwise there's no context or reasoning's at all. It's almost as bad as most shooter titles - we get told to shoot the other side "just because"! Yahtzee's mentioned that issue a few times in a lot of his ZPs.

God, I hope they do well in this sequel - I mean reboot.

 

[doomed89]

You are definitely reaching and again through the actions of the government it's clear they are bad, though I agree the context of why and how they are so corrupt is missing their actions does prove at least faith is closer to the right then they are. The farther you get in the game the clearer this becomes as a high ranking police officer miller shoots two guys in the back of the head to give faith a chance to save her sister.

Absolutely. It's just that everything so fluid and indefinite that we can say almost anything and it can be true. We are clearly meant to hate the government and see them as bad guys based on their reaction to the player character, but otherwise there's no context or reasoning's at all. It's almost as bad as most shooter titles - we get told to shoot the other side "just because"! Yahtzee's mentioned that issue a few times in a lot of his ZPs.

God, I hope they do well in this sequel - I mean reboot.

Actually we aren't told to shoot or kill anyone. You can beat the game without killing a single person (on easy anyways) and most of faith's takedowns aren't even kills just knock outs. And we aren't even told to hate the government we are told to deliver packages get shot for it and save your sister who you know for a fact was framed. Again I agree it was missing a lot of context but not to the point where you are wondering why are you doing what you are doing, it's your job, and your saving your sister. I agree though I hope they do a better job on the story this time around, I'm a little worried about the open world though, I thing having a open world will make the platforms more dumbbed down because the of the sheer volume but there is potential for it, it's just a really hard task that I'm not sure the devs are up to it.