I Truly Don't Get the Quicktime Event Hate

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happyninja42

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Seriously, why the frothing rage?

The two main gripes I always see, basically boil down to the following reasons, and I'm paraphrasing for the most part but:

1. I don't like being forced to accomplish the task in a certain way.

Well, every game does this to some degree. Either by every resolution being some form of "kill X because that's how you win" to "We didn't code into the game letting you redirecting the water flow of the city sewer system to wash away your enemies, so you can't do that. We only gave you 3 things to do. Punch them, shoot them, or blast them, so do that." Well what if I don't want to do that? Maybe I want to get them caught up in some legal issues by blackmailing them, and removing them as a threat that way? Sorry, game doesn't let you accomplish that, but I don't see anyone griping about this restriction.

2. It takes me out of the game flow.

Really? Odd, cause generally, given how cinematic the QTE's usually are, like an upclose and personal knife grappling scene, or some epic power struggle with one of the gods of Olympus, it's always felt way more dramatic and engaging to me.

Hell, two of the most classic games from decades past, were a continuous QTE story. Dragon's Lair and Space Ace. People LOVED those games, and yet I've never heard anyone gripe about those games.


In a sense, QTE's are an updated form of Simon Says, an incredibly popular game that's been around for decades, and hell, all the DDR games are basically QTE's too. You are forced along a predetermined sequence of inputs, and yet those games are popular.


So again, I ask, why the frothing rage?
 

Evonisia

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I don't hate Quick Time Events on their own, but I do hate them when they aren't part of scripted gameplay and not even every single time. There are some games where they work really well but if they just pop out of nowhere then it's beyond annoying. Most of the time though I find them boring, just something to get me from this heavily scripted five seconds to the next room.

Take a look at Bayonetta, Resident Evil 4 or the boss fights from Remember Me. The quick time events in them are all really awful, especially the latter most because the brown colour blends in with the bloom and brown background.
 

josemlopes

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Honestly it depends for me, sometimes it can be great. The times where I accept it the most is when its used to simulate struggle (Metal Gear does it really well in the torture scenes, you end up suffering from mashing the button so much), or when its used for the purpose of making certains steps more complicate to discourage the player (even if the game was shit, Hitman Absolution made the takedowns somewhat unpredictable and risky since they didnt had much time for error, making taking a target down by brute force not as simple as aproaching the enemy and pressing the attack button for an instant win).
 

RaginDrage

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Well when a game gets me fully introduced to its mechanics, it only comes off as jarring when i'm suddenly propelled in a moment where I have to "press A to kick ass" or "mash B to stop fend off someone" when the the developers could have easily designed the moment to work seamlessly with said mechanics.

While there's certainly a cinematic quality to some QTEs, it only comes off as underwhelming when I tap one button and see my character suddenly doing some elaborate takedown exclusive to that scene only. As cool as it is to see my character do something neat and cinematic, it isn't' nearly as satisfying when the only thing i'm doing is pressing A.
 

DoPo

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Happyninja42 said:
1. I don't like being forced to accomplish the task in a certain way.

Well, every game does this to some degree. Either by every resolution being some form of "kill X because that's how you win"
You are ignoring the fact that "Press X" is way more limiting than "Do X" - the actual ways to accomplish the latter are more than two, even if the task is set, you could try killing enemy 1, 2 then 3, or kill them in order 3, 1, 2, or kill them with knives or with guns, from behind or from the top, etc, etc. I could put it in another way - "Do X" allows you to play - being told to press a button to continue is not gameplay in any meaningful way. I suppose you could count it towards tutorials ("Press Space to jump") but those aren't really the sections of the games people spend a lot of time in.

Happyninja42 said:
2. It takes me out of the game flow.

Really?
Yes.

Happyninja42 said:
Odd, cause generally, given how cinematic the QTE's usually are, like an upclose and personal knife grappling scene, or some epic power struggle with one of the gods of Olympus, it's always felt way more dramatic and engaging to me.
And here is the answer you provided yourself then conveniently sidestepped - watching a cinematic cutscene is not playing a game. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to whether it is gameplay or not. The general consensus, as far as I know, is that games are not actually movies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3075-Videogames-Are-Not-Movies-Get-Over-It]. Video games are a different medium - a movie in which you press buttons to progress forward should not be confused with one.
 

duwenbasden

King of the Celery people
Jan 18, 2012
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Because a cutscene is a movie. If I am in the mindset of watching a movie, you better not throw me a Press X To Not Die because there is no way I know it is coming. Be a game or a movie, not both.

The keyword you are looking for here is "Predictability":

- Bayonetta's vs Saints Row's QTEs. I know QTEs are coming because I pressed the button that will cause QTEs; Bayonetta on the other hand I will not know beforehand if the PX2ND is coming or not.

Also, don't end the game if the player fails it. Watching something over and over again with no player input does not belong in a game.
 

happyninja42

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Evonisia said:
I don't hate Quick Time Events on their own, but I do hate them when they aren't part of scripted gameplay and not even every single time. There are some games where they work really well but if they just pop out of nowhere then it's beyond annoying. Most of the time though I find them boring, just something to get me from this heavily scripted five seconds to the next room.

Take a look at Bayonetta, Resident Evil 4 or the boss fights from Remember Me. The quick time events in them are all really awful, especially the latter most because the brown colour blends in with the bloom and brown background.
I agree if they're badly done, but that complaint applies to any poor mechanic. And I agree if they pop up really unexpectedly, it can be frustrating to transition from the main mechanic to the QTE thing. I guess that's just not what I see when people complain. Granted they don't really define it, they're too busy just frothing and raging "OMG F*CK QTEEEEE'S BLARGLEFLARGLE!!" xD


RaginDrage said:
Well when a game gets me fully introduced to its mechanics, it only comes off as jarring when i'm suddenly propelled in a moment where I have to "press A to kick ass" or "mash B to stop fend off someone" when the the developers could have easily designed the moment to work seamlessly with said mechanics.

While there's certainly a cinematic quality to some QTEs, it only comes off as underwhelming when I tap one button and see my character suddenly doing some elaborate takedown exclusive to that scene only. As cool as it is to see my character do something neat and cinematic, it isn't' nearly as satisfying when the only thing i'm doing is pressing A.
Fair enough, but you could say that for all of the elaborate things we make our characters do simply by pressing a button. Like God of War for example. All those crazy twirls and swings and strikes that Kratos does with his chain blades, all done by simply tapping a button.

The fact that you personally don't find them very entertaining, that's fine, personal preference of style and feel, I got zero issue with that aspect.
 

happyninja42

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DoPo said:
You are ignoring the fact that "Press X" is way more limiting than "Do X" - the actual ways to accomplish the latter are more than two, even if the task is set, you could try killing enemy 1, 2 then 3, or kill them in order 3, 1, 2, or kill them with knives or with guns, from behind or from the top, etc, etc. I could put it in another way - "Do X" allows you to play - being told to press a button to continue is not gameplay in any meaningful way. I suppose you could count it towards tutorials ("Press Space to jump") but those aren't really the sections of the games people spend a lot of time in.
But that's my point. Every game limits you by the number of options that the devs code into it. Yet QTE's get an extreme amount of dislike, even though there are plenty of games that arbitrarily restrict your options due to programming, yet they don't seem to get demonized for it.



DoPo said:
And here is the answer you provided yourself then conveniently sidestepped - watching a cinematic cutscene is not playing a game. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to whether it is gameplay or not. The general consensus, as far as I know, is that games are not actually movies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3075-Videogames-Are-Not-Movies-Get-Over-It]. Video games are a different medium - a movie in which you press buttons to progress forward should not be confused with one.
I am well aware that video games are not movies. But I feel that I enjoyed the QTE's that I've played more because I was involved in them. Yeah sure, I could've just watched Kratos leap and hack his way up Posieden and then kill him, or crush Helios, but the fact that the game included me in the events brought more level of interaction and involvement to it.

Follow up question to your response, do you not like having cutscenes in video games at all? Because if not, then why does it matter if you add a layer of interactivity to the cutscene?
 

Hero in a half shell

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DoPo said:
"Press X" is way more limiting than "Do X" - the actual ways to accomplish the latter are more than two, even if the task is set, you could try killing enemy 1, 2 then 3, or kill them in order 3, 1, 2, or kill them with knives or with guns, from behind or from the top, etc, etc. I could put it in another way - "Do X" allows you to play - being told to press a button to continue is not gameplay in any meaningful way. I suppose you could count it towards tutorials ("Press Space to jump") but those aren't really the sections of the games people spend a lot of time in.

--middle snip--

watching a cinematic cutscene is not playing a game. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant to whether it is gameplay or not. The general consensus, as far as I know, is that games are not actually movies [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3075-Videogames-Are-Not-Movies-Get-Over-It]. Video games are a different medium - a movie in which you press buttons to progress forward should not be confused with one.
I agree completely. quicktime events (especially in cutscenes) limit your choices, break gameplay up into sequences where you are watching your character perform, not performing your characters actions, and breaks immersion by planting a big imaginary flashing button prompt on the screen.

It can be done well, as has already been mentioned with Metal Gear Solid, but there are a lot of cases where it is just badly implemented.
 

DoPo

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Happyninja42 said:
But that's my point. Every game limits you by the number of options that the devs code into it.
No, your point is the logical fallacy of "Some limit is exactly the same as total limit". As I said, even when games limit you to a particular course of action, you are still have freedom within that course. There is no such thing when you are told to press a button - you either press it, and proceed, or don't, and fail. You cannot press it in a particular way that you may like, nor can you do anything else. Is is binary "success/failure" state being enforced on a player is while offering them gameplay is letting them explore each of these options even if the outcomes are still only two.
 

MysticSlayer

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Happyninja42 said:
1. I don't like being forced to accomplish the task in a certain way.

Well, every game does this to some degree. Either by every resolution being some form of "kill X because that's how you win" to "We didn't code into the game letting you redirecting the water flow of the city sewer system to wash away your enemies, so you can't do that. We only gave you 3 things to do. Punch them, shoot them, or blast them, so do that." Well what if I don't want to do that? Maybe I want to get them caught up in some legal issues by blackmailing them, and removing them as a threat that way? Sorry, game doesn't let you accomplish that, but I don't see anyone griping about this restriction.
The thing is, QTEs are overly restrictive. It isn't just that we don't have absolute freedom. There is only one way to finish the section, and furthermore, you're rarely ever given a fair chance on it. Two of the biggest flaws in gameplay that you can make is overly restricting potential solutions and not giving the player a fair chance outside of failing and remembering what needs to be done.

To give a comparison, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time was an incredibly linear game. Every section had one way to progress: Overcome platforming puzzles, defeat enemies, and/or solve various more traditional puzzles. However, regardless of being rather restrictive, the player still had plenty of ways to interact with the systems. It wasn't boiled down to "hit X to not die" every time you got into combat. You were allowed to use various combinations of powers and skills to overcome the enemies. Traditional puzzles gave you enough freedom to actually try and fail at various things, with dozens of ways to get to the final solution amidst those trials and errors. Even the platforming, which was the most restrictive section, at least occasionally gave some freedom. But most of all, all of these things, even in their most restrictive ways, were always fair. The player could see what needed to be done and had ample time to figure out a solution even before being forced into performing any action.

Now, let's look at QTEs. You are always given one and only one way to overcome the challenge before being forced to start all over. You can't fail and try something new later. You can fail and retry to hit the right button, or hope you guess it right the next time. You also are often not given a fair chance, as the timing is often random and you don't know what button to press until it comes up on the screen for a couple seconds.

And bear in mind, QTEs aren't the only thing that receive this kind of hate. If you make any game overly restrictive, even if it doesn't have a single QTE, then it'll receive criticism. Furthermore, a game whose challenge is based on being unfair will also receive proper criticism. The fact that QTEs, as a mechanic, have both of these flaws at their core in most games that have them, they are obviously not going to be the most loved mechanic.

2. It takes me out of the game flow.

Really? Odd, cause generally, given how cinematic the QTE's usually are, like an upclose and personal knife grappling scene, or some epic power struggle with one of the gods of Olympus, it's always felt way more dramatic and engaging to me.
Yes, if I have to re-watch a cutscene or restart a section because of making a "mistake" that was due to bad game design, it does mess up the flow of play. I don't care if I die because I made a mistake. It's time to get back and try something new. Having to restart because I failed to guess which button to push at the right time isn't a natural progression of tense, enjoyable challenge. It's just an unfair way to trip the player up.

Hell, two of the most classic games from decades past, were a continuous QTE story. Dragon's Lair and Space Ace. People LOVED those games, and yet I've never heard anyone gripe about those games.
We've come a long way since Dragon's Lair and Space Ace. Classic games weren't without flaws, and we shouldn't keep making those flaws over and over again once we've discovered a vastly superior way of doing things.

In a sense, QTE's are an updated form of Simon Says, an incredibly popular game that's been around for decades, and hell, all the DDR games are basically QTE's too. You are forced along a predetermined sequence of inputs, and yet those games are popular.
And here comes the point where I can actually talk about how they can work:

1. The player needs to know that they are coming, either through initiating the sequence themselves (ex. Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones) or because it is the core of the gameplay and the player is looking for it (ex. DDR).

2. The player needs to have ample chance. Maybe DDR has changed since I last played it, but when I did, the player could see the "button" they needed to "press" well in advance to when it needed to be pressed, reducing it to the timing of the press and careful observation, not random guesswork. The same thing can be said of games like The Two Thrones and Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, where the QTEs weren't so much "hit random button now!" but were reduced to being able to use any adequate button (ex. the attack button) and were based more on timing the clearly projected button press rather than having to quickly hit a randomly selected button.

3. No instant fail states! Failing QTEs very often leads to the death of the player, such as in Resident Evil 4. If a person fails, they need to have an ample chance to recover. This also means that you can't destroy their health bar without a way of recovering it. Once again, DDR doesn't automatically go "You Lose!" when you miss a step. Instead, it just harms your final score. Same thing with The Two Thrones, you may lose a little health, but you were able to quickly jump back into the action and try fighting. Mark of the Ninja also did a great job of making it harm your stealth while still giving you a chance to get away.

4. If you must have instant fail state QTEs based on random button presses, please give us a chance to turn the atrocities off! If I remember correctly, this is how The Witcher 2 handled its QTEs.

5. Realize that they aren't the most interactive way to do a lot of stuff. So no, gameplay built solely around it is generally not a good idea (ex. Quantic Dream's games), unless it's just a casual game to enjoy competing with friends (ex. DDR).

6. Realize that cutscenes can be an enjoyable way to wind down after a challenging boss. We beat the boss. I want to relax and enjoy a well-made cutscene as a reward, not have to stay on top of things in case a QTE decides to ruin an otherwise enjoyable cutscene.

So, in the end, I don't think QTEs are inherently bad, but I do think most games have done a horrible job of implementing them up until this point.

Edit: Fixed a couple errors.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Like any other game mechanic, there's a good way to do it and a bad way to do it.

If for instance QTEs are mingled into gameplay as combat finishers ala God of War, or masked as prompts ala Arkham games, or even used as a panic button in survival horror games like Silent Hill: Origins or the REmake, then that's fine. You're making the mechanic an integral part of gameplay, to be taught and mastered accordingly throughout the game.

If on the other hand QTEs tend to ambush you with insta-kills in the middle of a cutscene ala Resident Evil 4, or gameplay is largely reduced to diversely shaped QTEs with no coherence in between, ala Resident Evil 6, that's just poor design. Either the game is trying to cheat you into losing by briefly yet randomly shaking up the gameplay, or you're getting cheated out of actual gameplay by having to shortcut through a Guitar Hero mini-game. It involves less skill and creativity and more of a knee-jerk response to Pavlovian conditioning.
 

xaszatm

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Well, it depends on the QTE. I don't hate QTE by themselves, but they are hardly ever used well. I still say that Kingdom Hearts II is the best use of QTE. You know the difference between a QTE cutscene and a normal cutscene. The QTE is regulated to one button for both activating and using so no scrambling to find the right button. It was integrated into the gameplay smoothly. Other games like Wonderful 101 does it well, but those for me seem to be the exception, not the rule.
 

Aiddon_v1legacy

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I think about it this way: if you're going to have a cutscene, just have a cutscene; don't put "press X to not die" and PRETEND it's gameplay. It seems like the devs who use it seem to prescribe to this idea that cutscenes are evil...but then realize there's no way to AVOID them. These do not make games more interactive, they just make them more annoying to get through.
 

KarmaTheAlligator

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The problem I have with QTEs is that a lot of them demand constant attention and fast reflexes. Attention, that can be OK if the game clearly says they'll be there, so you can prepare (and then devs get tricky by putting them at random places on the screen). Reflexes, well, not everyone has good enough ones.
 

Jandau

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I like to either play the game or watch a cutscene. QTE's take the worst aspects of both gameplay and cutscenes and mix them together into a something that's even less than the sum of its parts...
 

Tuesday Night Fever

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My $.02 on QTE...

1. By using QTE's to resolve a situation, the game is removing my own ability to choose how the situation is resolved. What if I wanted to kill the enemies in a different order, or from a different position, or with a different weapon, or hell, what if I just wanted to try to sneak around them? Too bad. The QTE has effectively removed that choice from me, and also removed a segment of the game in order to give me a cutscene.

2. Extensive use of QTE's typically also means extensive use of cutscenes. If I'm watching a cutscene, I'm not playing a game. I'm watching a movie. If I wanted to watch a movie, I'd watch a movie. I'm playing a game because I want gameplay. QTE's aren't gameplay, they remove gameplay.

3. I can't watch the cutscenes even if I wanted to. Because I'm trying to pay attention to the QTE warnings, I'm not really paying attention to what's actually going on in the scene. So by adding the QTE's the developer is not only taking gameplay away from me, but story content as well. Great. Games like Resident Evil 5, for instance, I couldn't pay attention to any of the game's cutscenes because half of them had QTE's and half didn't. So even during the ones that didn't, I was focusing on the QTE spot just in case.

4. QTE chains, ones that force you to start over from the beginning if you botch them, suck. No two ways about it. And for that matter, QTE's that kill your character and force you to a previous save are also complete bullshit. Especially in games that reward or challenge you for limiting your saves, since it doesn't matter how skilled you are at the game... one missed button press, and all of your time and effort have been wasted. That's not fun.

5. QTE's are often used to make your character perform some sort of action that would be difficult to implement in gameplay. The end result is that your character is magically a complete badass during cutscenes, then completely lame during gameplay. Look at the Leon/Krauser knife fight in Resident Evil 4 where you do all sorts of neat attacks and dodges and parries with your combat knife. Then the cutscene ends, and you're back to just doing your boring little slash attack from a completely stationary position again.

6. QTE's in Co-Op settings also completely suck. Going back to Resident Evil 5, it was frustrating as hell trying to beat that game with a Co-Op partner who is afflicted by a condition I like to call "stupid fingers." There's a part toward the end of the game where you're on a ship, and you have to chain a dozen or so QTE's in a row to avoid getting killed by giant tentacles. He botched that event so many times that it ended up ruining the experience for both of us, and we just stopped playing the game. I've since beaten it solo, but it soured his opinion of the game so badly that he wants nothing to do with it or any future games in the series until QTE's are removed. I can't say I blame him.

While I'm not completely 100% anti-QTE, I'm also not generally fond of them. They're not enough to prevent me from buying a game, but they'll almost assuredly be near the top of my list of things that I dislike about it.
 
Jan 18, 2012
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While we may not be able to fully eliminate QTEs from games, there are ways we can make them suck less.

1.) Make them part of gameplay, not cutscenes: when we watch cutscenes, we're usually more relaxed and our attention is focused on the cinematic before us. That's why when a "press X to not die" prompt appears, it catches us by surprise and we usually fail it. when a QTE pops up in gameplay, we're more alert and can respond to it easier. A good example would be the finishers in God of War and other spectacle fighters. Even the timing attacks and dodges in The Paper Mario games could be considered QTEs and they were a staple of the game's combat

2.) Make them known to the player: If there are going to be QTEs in cutscenes, let the player know beforehand that this will be a regular occurrence and they should keep their eyes peeled. In one of the Uncharted game, there was a "press X to not die" moment in one of the cutscenes and it didn't come up again throughout the rest of the game. In contrast, Mass Effect 2 had it Paragon/Renegade interrupts introduced in the tutorial and mentioned that they'd be happening again.

3.) Make them prominent and make them passable: If there are going to be QTE's make sure the player is able to spot them and react in a reasonable amount of time. I remember the QTEs in Bayonetta being kind of hard to spot which lead to a number of deaths on my part. Instead, make the button prompts big and flash enough to spot (with out intruding too much on the action) and give us enough time to react properly. The QTEs in God of War were visible and wreathed in fire so the players could see what they were supposed to do.
 

Liquidprid3

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The main reason I hate Quicktime events is because they are boring. I don't utterly despise them, but I would almost always rather be mashing the guy with the mechanics, than pressing A and seeing it happen. I can forgive QTE's in games like Heavy Rain and Farenheit, because they are story based and some of that story is conveyed through those mechanics. Those I can forgive, but I don't understand the point of QTE's in any other game, because of the rest of the gameplay is awesome and fun. Why do I want to punch a guy 3000 times in BF3 with boring, easy to hit, and lazy QTE's, when I can just fucking shoot him.