If We're Going To Get The Games We Want We Will Have To Make Them Ourselves

[Silverblade]

I had a thought. I've read a lot of posts and watched a lot of videos (particularly on this site)about how we wish the game industry made games differently. We want more well written stories, more complex characters, a more female protagonists, more minority protagonists, more original game mechanics, fewer "brown is realistic" modern military shooters, etc, etc, etc.

The thing is I don't think we'll be able to convince the big game companies to do this. For them its a safer bet financially to just churn out more of the same with minimal changes which appeals to the widest possible audience. And the fact that more and more game companies are being merged into a few gigantic dev teams large enough to create games with all those super HD graphics, whose creativity is stifled by publishers who just want the next Call of Duty, makes it even less likely that we're going to see anything new and original.

I think if we're ever going to play the games we want to play, we're going to have to stop relying on the established companies and make them ourselves. It wouldn't be an impossible thing to do, back in the old days dev teams were a lot smaller than they are today. Get a group of 5 or 10 people together, go on Kickstarter and say hey we want to make this awesome original, inclusive, fun game and since supposedly this is the kind of thing a lot of people want to play you should get enough to make the game. Since your team is small it won't be the most graphically pretty game ever but do we really care about hyper real graphics?

That's what I'm planning to do. I've got one more year of university to finish and then I'm going to make the game I've always wanted to play: a historical simulation about being a lord and running a fiefdom in medieval Scotland. You'll create a young Scottish noble who inhierets a castle and some villages near the border with England, and part of the game will be about maintaining your castle and improving your villages over your lifetime. As well as improving your status as court and fighting off raiders from across the border, doing a whole bunch of other medieval things.

Instead of bitching about what we don't have on a internet forum why don't get out there and make what we want?

 

[endtherapture]

Because a lot of us have jobs, aspirations and careers that don't involve us designing games. It's simply a hobby for a lot of us.

 

[Shpongled]

A) I don't really know what games i want, or how to make them. I can have some ideas that might be cool games, but it takes a hell of a lot more than an idea to make a great game.

B) I already have plenty of great games to play. Loads of indie games are good fun. There are older games that are great on sale all the time. And there are plenty of developers around still making great games.

Your idea just sounds a bit like a small scale Crusader Kings 2, which is an awesome game. I'd rather just play that than spend years doing something i have no experience in to produce something that probably won't be any good anyway. I'm no game developer.

 

[Doom972]

Every once in a while the industry gives a game that I have imagined and wanted: Fallout, Deus Ex and Mass Effect are a few good examples. I know that the industry doesn't make on masterpiece after the other, but I don't expect them to. One great game a year is good enough for me.

There are always limitations of time, money and manpower, which is why no game will ever reach its full potential. We all have to learn to accept it at some point.

Good luck on your kickstarter. Extra Credits recently made a guide for new indie developers which I think you might appreciate.

 

[Doclector]

That's not really a reasonable answer.

I play a lot of games, and I'm deeply passionate about games, but I have no idea how to make one. Maybe I might have some clue to the creative process, but I don't know shit about coding.

I could write for a videogame, I'm open to that, but my passion creatively is film and tv.

Point is, it's all well and good to say that we should take the gaming industry by creative force, be the change we wish for, and all that, and it's even better to, as an aspiring videogame creator, to try and act out that proposal yourself, but fact is, most people aren't going to be able to go along for that crusade, not without upending the majority of their own plans for life.

 

[WoW Killer]

Like others have said, it's not a simple thing to create a game. The main block is that you need that little bit of skill in multiple different areas, mainly coding, graphics and sound, to make even the simplest of games. So whether you're taking some time out to make a real go of it or just tinkering around bit by bit in your spare time, fact of the matter is it's incredibly difficult to make a game on your own. In most cases you're going to need a small team, and that adds all kinds of extra organisational issues, and usually rules out any sort of casual approach.

But I still agree with your sentiment. More people should make games. Or at least, more people should try. As hard as it is, it's getting easier. The growing prowess of modern technology doesn't just mean ever glitzier graphics and bigger worlds. It also means that the standard of years gone by can now be made with much less efficient but more human friendly engines and codes. Game creation software is better than ever. Higher level languages are much more viable.

Even if you don't succeed, you'll learn a lot about games, about the mechanics behind them, their potential and their limitations. If you're a gaming enthusiast, you owe it to yourself to try making something. Anything.

[small](and yes, we all really do need to ***** less)[/small]

 

[sextus the crazy]

Because a lot of us have jobs, aspirations and careers that don't involve us designing games. It's simply a hobby for a lot of us.

/thread

Having strong opinions on games doesn't mean we have the time to make them. That's why we vote with our wallets; it's the least we can do.

 

[Fox12]

I had a thought. I've read a lot of posts and watched a lot of videos (particularly on this site)about how we wish the game industry made games differently. We want more well written stories, more complex characters, a more female protagonists, more minority protagonists, more original game mechanics, fewer "brown is realistic" modern military shooters, etc, etc, etc.

The thing is I don't think we'll be able to convince the big game companies to do this. For them its a safer bet financially to just churn out more of the same with minimal changes which appeals to the widest possible audience. And the fact that more and more game companies are being merged into a few gigantic dev teams large enough to create games with all those super HD graphics, whose creativity is stifled by publishers who just want the next Call of Duty, makes it even less likely that we're going to see anything new and original.

I think if we're ever going to play the games we want to play, we're going to have to stop relying on the established companies and make them ourselves. It wouldn't be an impossible thing to do, back in the old days dev teams were a lot smaller than they are today. Get a group of 5 or 10 people together, go on Kickstarter and say hey we want to make this awesome original, inclusive, fun game and since supposedly this is the kind of thing a lot of people want to play you should get enough to make the game. Since your team is small it won't be the most graphically pretty game ever but do we really care about hyper real graphics?

That's what I'm planning to do. I've got one more year of university to finish and then I'm going to make the game I've always wanted to play: a historical simulation about being a lord and running a fiefdom in medieval Scotland. You'll create a young Scottish noble who inhierets a castle and some villages near the border with England, and part of the game will be about maintaining your castle and improving your villages over your lifetime. As well as improving your status as court and fighting off raiders from across the border, doing a whole bunch of other medieval things.

Instead of bitching about what we don't have on a internet forum why don't get out there and make what we want?

Somebody finally gets it. This is why I love the Indie scene so much, if there was a game I always dreamed of then, most likely, it's already being developed. Otherwise I'll come across a game that has everything I never knew I wanted. Not everybody can make games, but I a lot of people are jumping all over the Indie titles just for this reason.

Your idea sounds good by the way, good luck on your kick starter. You can never have too much political intrigue, after all.

 

[Something Amyss]

Because a lot of us have jobs, aspirations and careers that don't involve us designing games. It's simply a hobby for a lot of us.

Not to mention, could you imagine if this was applied to other media? Hell, at least with novels, music and even film the entry level is lower.

 

[Something Amyss]

Somebody finally gets it. This is why I love the Indie scene so much, if there was a game I always dreamed of then, most likely, it's already being developed. Otherwise I'll come across a game that has everything I never knew I wanted. Not everybody can make games, but I a lot of people are jumping all over the Indie titles just for this reason.

Your idea sounds good by the way, good luck on your kick starter. You can never have too much political intrigue, after all.

Those two statements kinda seem...At odds with one another.

Actually, the WHOLE statement seems at odds with the concept that "finally someone gets it." Since, you know, the indie scene already exists and those who can already are. Clearly, someone got it a long time ago. that doesn't change matters. Commercial and artistic media are both open for criticism and there is no requirement that the consumer be a content creator to do so.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I had a thought. I've read a lot of posts and watched a lot of videos (particularly on this site)about how we wish the game industry made games differently. We want more well written stories, more complex characters, a more female protagonists, more minority protagonists, more original game mechanics, fewer "brown is realistic" modern military shooters, etc, etc, etc.

The thing is I don't think we'll be able to convince the big game companies to do this. For them its a safer bet financially to just churn out more of the same with minimal changes which appeals to the widest possible audience. And the fact that more and more game companies are being merged into a few gigantic dev teams large enough to create games with all those super HD graphics, whose creativity is stifled by publishers who just want the next Call of Duty, makes it even less likely that we're going to see anything new and original.

I think if we're ever going to play the games we want to play, we're going to have to stop relying on the established companies and make them ourselves. It wouldn't be an impossible thing to do, back in the old days dev teams were a lot smaller than they are today. Get a group of 5 or 10 people together, go on Kickstarter and say hey we want to make this awesome original, inclusive, fun game and since supposedly this is the kind of thing a lot of people want to play you should get enough to make the game. Since your team is small it won't be the most graphically pretty game ever but do we really care about hyper real graphics?

That's what I'm planning to do. I've got one more year of university to finish and then I'm going to make the game I've always wanted to play: a historical simulation about being a lord and running a fiefdom in medieval Scotland. You'll create a young Scottish noble who inhierets a castle and some villages near the border with England, and part of the game will be about maintaining your castle and improving your villages over your lifetime. As well as improving your status as court and fighting off raiders from across the border, doing a whole bunch of other medieval things.

Instead of bitching about what we don't have on a internet forum why don't get out there and make what we want?

Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's fine if people want to say "I didn't like this in the game, I thought they could have done this better, etc. etc.", and at the end of the day you either shell out your money for the game or you don't, that's the only true criticism that matters for the company.

What bugs the hell out of me is when people sit behind their computers and say that companies 'need' to do this or do that, especially when they say it HAS to be done to fight sexism or racism or anti-Semitism or whatever other -ism you want to pick. It's the game companies that bear all the financial risk (not to mention the risk of losing their job if the game fails), not us consumers. The absolute worst thing that happens to us is the game we were hoping was gonna be good ends up being bad. Oh well, move on to the next game.

It's easy to demand that something change when you reap only the benefits but share none of the risk.

 

[Lightknight]

Well, I admire the thought process. This is generally how the start of something great begins. Someone realizes something they want doesn't exist yet so they make it.

Now go out there and learn about programming, game art design, storytelling and marketing. Good luck!

 

[sweetylnumb]

That's like going to a restaurant, ordering a meal, and finding it doesn't contain what you ordered. You send it back, whereupon the chief comes out and tell's you to make your goddamn self.

We pay for their games, it is therefore their job to make us happy. The problem is everyone buys their games anyway so it doesn't matter how much crap they make.

Its like the person at the restaurant not sending the meal back, eating it, and then posting an annoyed post on Facebook later. Totally useless as the restaurant still got their money and people wont stop eating there because you said their meal was shit.

 

[Lightknight]

We pay for their games, it is therefore their job to make us happy. The problem is everyone buys their games anyway so it doesn't matter how much crap they make.

Or, and this is a novel idea, the game makes those people happy so they buy them. The objectively terrible games often don't make any money. It's the subjective ones that can go either way.

Expecting certain game developers to cater to you, individually, would be little different than me demanding that horror movie producers include more romantic comedy in their films. Games cannot be reduced to the simplicity of a burger. Burgers are meant to be custom made, games and most forms of art know nothing of the individual and aren't supposed to.

 

[wulf3n]

Because a lot of us have jobs, aspirations and careers that don't involve us designing games. It's simply a hobby for a lot of us.

Not to mention, could you imagine if this was applied to other media? Hell, at least with novels, music and even film the entry level is lower.

Are you being sarcastic?

This generally is applied to other media. Fan-Fiction? Garage Bands? Youtube?

I think people are just focusing too much on the AAA.

 

[IndieForever]

Instead of bitching about what we don't have on a internet forum why don't get out there and make what we want?

Having been doing precisely that for a few years I thought I'd just add one other thing - by the time you have finished your game you will hate it. I mean fucking hate it with the same passion you originally had to make the thing. There is nothing more soul-destroying than designing, re-designing, playing and replaying the same content over and over and over again until your very will to live is sucked into a keyboard and then spat back at you to run dripping off your crying face. This is why I think many games get started by home-grown, small teams and then never finished.

What makes it worthwhile, for me anyway, is seeing other people play your game and enjoy it, get sucked into it and wonder where the last couple of hours went. The development process now is like gargling broken glass in terms of 'fun'...

As many people have mentioned, you have to really dig deep and go in for the long haul if you want a finished product. Still, it's much easier, technically, than it was ten years ago; grab a copy of Unity or DarkBasic, for example, and away you go without having to have too much in-depth knowledge of mathematics in three dimensional space. Hell, you don't even have to have much to look at graphically for something to be successful - Dwarf Fortress.

From my perspective, and a little bit of advice, it's not the programming or the ideas that are the toughest thing for my team. Game balance is a pig to get right (because over the course of building your game you will become somewhat good at it and we have found that we have been making things too tough too quickly!) and knowing when to stop trying to add new ideas and features is something a lot of devs don't do well. Make sure you know what you want to achieve before you even fire up a code editor.

Plenty of good forums out there to join - I recommend gamedev.net as a starting point - and try to make your first game without needing funding because a) you won't get it and b) if you're trying to actually make a profit it adds another level of stress you won't want on your first foray. To give you an idea, we're into our project for $40k (engine licenses, modelling software, music software and hardware, payments to contractors for assets like network/server code and other things which would have taken too long for us to do and were more cost-effective to outsource) and that is peanuts for a game. Drop me a PM if you want a chat about getting started and what we're doing as I don't think it's reasonable to name-drop our game on this forum.

And finally... good luck. A little bit of luck never hurts

 

[WoW Killer]

Its like the person at the restaurant not sending the meal back, eating it, and then posting an annoyed post on Facebook later. Totally useless as the restaurant still got their money and people wont stop eating there because you said their meal was shit.

Unless you're in a tourist hotspot (and even then to some degree), you get your business through word of mouth. If someone has a poor opinion of the product they received in your venue, and even more so if they write about it in a publically viewable way, then that harms your business. Writing a poor review of a restaurant online can be very damning, just like writing a poor review of a video game should be. Should be.

Trouble with games is that a vast quantity of their money is made on day one. Even when reviews are allowed before release, a lot of money is made on pre-orders (which people really shouldn't do, but ah, that's a different subject). So that's one way the analogy fails. Restaurants are continuous things that rely on continuous good reports in order to stay active, whereas a game (like a film) can fool you once and still have all your money.

The other difference is that if a restaurant ever said "well if you're not happy go somewhere else" then most people actually would. Whether you're after burgers, Chinese, Indian, Thai, whatever, you'll find another restaurant not an unfeasible ride away. If someone's upset you that much, you won't be going back again. But when a game developer says "if you don't like it, make your own" they're not quite saying "if you don't like it, play something else", because very often the game people have in mind doesn't exist.

Take Mass Effect 3, with people going apeshit over the ending; there wasn't a serious alternative to that game being offered by competitors. Of all the games out there, the one that was closest to what the complainers wanted was ME3, without any doubt. But for some reason being close to something without being it is more repulsive to certain people than being far away from the thing you wanted. So we had all this... stuff.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, when people react to a game, they're usually comparing it to an imaginary version of it in their head. This game doesn't exist; nobody has made it. They're just looking at potential and hence their opinions of the real thing are bound to be poor. So, when someone says "why don't you make a game?" it's actually a meaningful argument, because it's actually saying "why has nobody made this game yet?". That's different from a restaurant because if they tell you to fuck off somewhere else, they most probably mean it literally. Like... I dunno... I've not worked in a restaurant, but I've worked in pubs and... some people need to be told that.

 

[Fox12]

Somebody finally gets it. This is why I love the Indie scene so much, if there was a game I always dreamed of then, most likely, it's already being developed. Otherwise I'll come across a game that has everything I never knew I wanted. Not everybody can make games, but I a lot of people are jumping all over the Indie titles just for this reason.

Your idea sounds good by the way, good luck on your kick starter. You can never have too much political intrigue, after all.

Those two statements kinda seem...At odds with one another.

Actually, the WHOLE statement seems at odds with the concept that "finally someone gets it." Since, you know, the indie scene already exists and those who can already are. Clearly, someone got it a long time ago. that doesn't change matters. Commercial and artistic media are both open for criticism and there is no requirement that the consumer be a content creator to do so.

Not really, my point is that consumers can support the Indie market even if they're not developers themselves, which gives their voice strength in an economic climate. This sort of mentality, the "if I want it done I need to do it myself" mentality tends to be a sign of creative health. Heck, Tolkien talked quite a lot about how his favorite genre, fantasy, was a non entity at his time, which is what prompted him to write LotR. He couldn't read the kinds of stories he wanted to read, so he had to write them. Not literally everyone has to be a content creator, and I don't think the OP is saying we should all quit our day jobs to develop video games. What he's saying is that the gaming community as a whole needs to take charge, not just sit around and moan, which a lot of us are good at. And he's right.