In need of help: Graphic Cards.

[Samuel Cook]

Which of the two is better? They're my only choices, I'm ordering a computer and these two are on the top of the list, which I'm guessing means they're the best they have? Don't give me any long words as I haven't got a clue what any of it means.

Chillblast Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB
or
Nvidia Geforce GTX 295 1792MB Graphics Card

Thanks!

 

[-Seraph-]

I'd go with the Nvidia Card. Doing a really quick rundown of the two and a few benchmarks, the Nvidia one seemed to hold out quite well.

 

[Nutcase]

Just FYI: these cards have a ton of graphics memory (way above what's needed really), which eats into address space. So if you go with them, you will basically need to use a 64-bit version of Windows. Otherwise the cards limit you to ~2GB of accessible RAM regardless of physical amount of RAM installed, hamstringing your entire machine.

 

[Samuel Cook]

Just FYI: these cards have a ton of graphics memory (way above what's needed really), which eats into address space. So if you go with them, you will basically need to use a 64-bit version of Windows. Otherwise the cards limit you to ~2GB of accessible RAM regardless of physical amount of RAM installed, hamstringing your entire machine.

Never has a person said so much for me to understand so little.. Are you saying that without a special windows whatever, there's no point in this graphics card?

 

[I_LIKE_CAKE]

If you are going to spend that much money, I would wait on the 4890x2, which shouldn't be to far off. You could also do what I'm doing and wait for the DirectX 11 cards that will be out after Windows 7 is released, rather then buying a $500 graphics card now.

 

[wordsmith]

I'd go with the Nvidia, the ATI is one to two models earlier than the Nvidia. The 4870 (the card I have) is on a par with the 9800 GTX. After the 9800, they went to the 260, then to the 295. So yeah, I'd go with the Nvidia card.

I'd explain 64-bit/32-bit versions, but I'm tired. Maybe tomorrow morning.

 

[RapidCrash]

Just FYI: these cards have a ton of graphics memory (way above what's needed really), which eats into address space. So if you go with them, you will basically need to use a 64-bit version of Windows. Otherwise the cards limit you to ~2GB of accessible RAM regardless of physical amount of RAM installed, hamstringing your entire machine.

Er? You realizing that systems address graphics memory seperately, right? The 1GB of graphics memory on my 9800 GTX+ does nothing to the 4GB of RAM, and I am still limited to 3.5gB of RAM on a 32-bit OS regardless of how much memory there is.

The graphics memory difference on these cards is trivial. You may see a good performance boost over a card that has just 1GB of memory, but the 256mB difference is nothing for a deciding factor. Both cards utilize two cores on the same card. The Nvidia card greatly outperforms the HD4870x2 however. It is much like how a single 280 beats the living hell out of a single 4870.

Also, just because they're the top of the list, don't consider them the best. Unless the rest of your system matches well, these cards may bottleneck your system. You will want/need at least an I7 build, and for that, you will want 750W PSU or greater.

In laymen's terms: Go with the Nvidia

 

[xenus87]

If you are going to spend that much money, I would wait on the 4890x2, which shouldn't be to far off. You could also do what I'm doing and wait for the DirectX 11 cards that will be out after Windows 7 is released, rather then buying a $500 graphics card now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/157/1040157/microsoft-announces-dx11

DX10 cards we have now will work perfectly with DX11

 

[[Gavo]]

The 4870 (the card I have) is on a par with the 9800 GTX.

Actually, the 4850 is on par with the 9800 GTX. The 4870 is a mile above it.

Anyways...

I'd go with the 295, because ATI has already made the 4890, which is its direct rival, however, as much as I dislike Nvidia, they made a better card this time.

I actually don't dislike Nvidia, their prices just bug me. And the fact that they've rebranded the 8800GT three times now.

Is price that much of a factor to you, OP?

 

[RapidCrash]

]

And the fact that they've rebranded the 8800GT three times now.

There were definite improvements each time. 9800 GTX really wasn't much different, but the GTX+ and 250 cards had good improvements over the 8800/9800. Mainly they were slightly faster, had more memory, used up less power and generated more heat. Not to mention that I found the 9800 GTX+ scales much better than any of it's predecessors.

 

[solidstatemind]

Which of the two is better? They're my only choices, I'm ordering a computer and these two are on the top of the list, which I'm guessing means they're the best they have? Don't give me any long words as I haven't got a clue what any of it means.

Chillblast Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB
or
Nvidia Geforce GTX 295 1792MB Graphics Card

Thanks!

please see this guide to make your own conclusions:
http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=3538 NOTE: of particular interest to you is the last page, where they specifically compare the two cards you mention.

From a personal perspective, I can only tell you this: recently, I bought myself an <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102809>ATI 4850x2 2GB and my wife a <url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150334>GeForce 285. And we're both pretty happy with the product.

Ultimately speaking, either card will most likely satisfy your needs for cutting edge gaming, and both will probably hold you for a couple of years. Frankly, about the only regret I have is that the 285 has the on-board physics processing, and I have the sneaking suspicion that will come into play more and more.

 

[Agayek]

Never has a person said so much for me to understand so little.. Are you saying that without a special windows whatever, there's no point in this graphics card?

There's 2 versions of windows (xp and later) currently. The traditional 32 bit and 64 bit. 32 bit systems can have a maximum of 4 gigabytes (GB) of RAM (which essentially controls multitasking speed, among other things) due to memory allocation (2^32 = ~4 billion, hence 4 GB max memory). If you use a 32 bit system (which you probably do), you will be unable to use more than 2.3 GB of RAM, reducing the effectiveness of your hardware (assuming you have more than 2 GB of RAM installed). It's not a gigantic hit if you have 2-3 GB of RAM installed, but it is still noticeable and annoying.

If you switch to a 64 bit system, all of these issues are resolved. If you want more details on that, let me know and I can try to put together a more laymen's version.

And on topic, both cards work perfectly fine. I just ordered a GTX295, but that was more due to lack of motherboard support for the ATI 4870s/CrossFire. I'd say go with whichever is cheaper that your motherboard supports. The 295 is a superior set up to 2x 4870s though, according to benchmarks, it's just $150 more.

Er? You realizing that systems address graphics memory seperately, right? The 1GB of graphics memory on my 9800 GTX+ does nothing to the 4GB of RAM, and I am still limited to 3.5gB of RAM on a 32-bit OS regardless of how much memory there is.

Maybe you just got lucky, or if you're running XP it does stuff better.

I was running 32 bit Vista with a pair of 8800 Ultras and got 2.3 GB of RAM, with 6 GB installed (lol@misreadingdiscs).

 

[I_LIKE_CAKE]

If you are going to spend that much money, I would wait on the 4890x2, which shouldn't be to far off. You could also do what I'm doing and wait for the DirectX 11 cards that will be out after Windows 7 is released, rather then buying a $500 graphics card now.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/157/1040157/microsoft-announces-dx11

DX10 cards we have now will work perfectly with DX11

I stand corrected about compatibility, but I think I will still shoot for a DX 11 card when they come out, if only for bragging rights

 

[Samuel Cook]

Ok.. I'm just going to copy and paste the things I've chosen to be put in.. If you could tell me if it'd work or not I'd be grateful.. (I'm getting it from Chillblast, it's the I7 spitfire, if that changes anything?)

Processor: Intel Core I7 965 3.20GHz (nehalem) Processor overclocked up to 3.6 GHz
Cooling: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste [?]
Akasa Nero Quiet CPU Cooler
Additional Ultra Quiet 120mm Cooling Fans
CoolIT Systems Domino Water Cooler
MotherBoard: Asus Rampage Extreme II X58 Motherboard
Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Memory
Graphics Card: Nvidia Geforce GTX 295 1792MB Graphics Card
1st Hard drive: 1500GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
2nd Hard drive: 1500GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
RAID: RAID 1 Configuration
Network Card: KillerNIC M1 Gigabit PCI Network Card
Standard drive: Pioneer DVR-216DBK 20x DL DVD±RW SATA Optical Drive
Additional Drive: Additional Blu-Ray HD Optical Drive
Power Supply: Hiper High Performance 880W PSU

Operating System: I've heard that Vista is rubbish and I should go with XP.. But being a Mac user for the last few years I have no idea.. I'm using this computer for CAD, Music Recording and Obviously gaming.. So, What should i go with?

That's basically it, excluding mouse, case, keyboard and PCI cards.. So yeah, if anyone can tell me if that all works well then thanks a bunch!

 

[Sevre]

Ok.. I'm just going to copy and paste the things I've chosen to be put in.. If you could tell me if it'd work or not I'd be grateful.. (I'm getting it from Chillblast, it's the I7 spitfire, if that changes anything?)

Processor: Intel Core I7 965 3.20GHz (nehalem) Processor overclocked up to 3.6 GHz
Cooling: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Paste [?]
Akasa Nero Quiet CPU Cooler
Additional Ultra Quiet 120mm Cooling Fans
CoolIT Systems Domino Water Cooler
MotherBoard: Asus Rampage Extreme II X58 Motherboard
Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz Memory
Graphics Card: Nvidia Geforce GTX 295 1792MB Graphics Card
1st Hard drive: 1500GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
2nd Hard drive: 1500GB 7200RPM Hard Disk
RAID: RAID 1 Configuration
Network Card: KillerNIC M1 Gigabit PCI Network Card
Standard drive: Pioneer DVR-216DBK 20x DL DVD±RW SATA Optical Drive
Additional Drive: Additional Blu-Ray HD Optical Drive
Power Supply: Hiper High Performance 880W PSU

Operating System: I've heard that Vista is rubbish and I should go with XP.. But being a Mac user for the last few years I have no idea.. I'm using this computer for CAD, Music Recording and Obviously gaming.. So, What should i go with?

That's basically it, excluding mouse, case, keyboard and PCI cards.. So yeah, if anyone can tell me if that all works well then thanks a bunch!

Quite a machine you've got there, but you HAVE to go with 64bit Vista. Vista comes in two separate versions, 32-bit and 64. For that machine 64-bit is necessary if you actually want to use all that hardware.

 

[spuddyt]

Any version of vista (NOT XP, no matter what), home basic or premium is fine, but make certain it is 64 bit - you don't want to know why, so I won't explain, but it IS important. Otherwise everything is fine, although it is going to cost a crapload for it. I'd go with the NVIDIA, since price doesn't seem to be an object for you.

 

[Samuel Cook]

Ok, cool.. Just out of curiosity, What does the RAID configuration do exactly? And is the cooling stuff sufficient?

Thanks for all the help guys, it's very much appreciated!

 

[konkwastaken]

Nvidia Geforce GTX 295 1792MB Graphics Card easy.
Also, you definitely want to get vista 64-bit if you want to be able to use your system to the maximus!

 

[Theo Samaritan]

I was running 32 bit Vista with a pair of 8800 Ultras and got 2.3 GB of RAM, with 6 GB installed (lol@misreadingdiscs).

That had better been a misread, considering the 4gb limit.

Either or, graphics memory does not eat into physical memory - at least, not anymore. I still get a full 32bit allocation (which can be up to 3 gigs per program if set right) despite having a 2gb card and 4 gigs of ram installed. It doesn't work like that any more, they developed away from it when they realised "oh shit people are going to run out of ram to allocate soon".

The 32bit limit wont start effecting the onboard memory until GFX cards come to 4gb, and by then pretty much everyone will be on, or moving to, 64bit OS.

 

[Sevre]

Ok, cool.. Just out of curiosity, What does the RAID configuration do exactly? And is the cooling stuff sufficient?

Thanks for all the help guys, it's very much appreciated!

RAID gives you either better performance or allows you to back up your files depending on the configuration,its used in high end PCs with two or more HDs and Servers etc. I think that is a good explanation of it.