Intolerance and Judgemental thinking - SO FUCKING ANNOYING

[Elle-Jai]

I've read much into Satanism and I do agree with most of the basic ideas behind it (for example the 9 statements), however the fact is that it is a glorified cult that has religious status, technically to even be called a member you must pay the church something along the likes of $200USD.

If you look into this they actually insist that it's not necessary to sign up. They also point out (rightly, IMO) that since many Christian churches fleece you for 10% of your annual income, a one-off fee of $200USD is nothing.

Do you believe what the system preaches or merely share the ideals? If the latter you're not a satanist.

Again, not quite right. According to their site, Church of Satan [www.churchofsatan.com], you are a Satanist if you align with their philosophy. They merely request that you do not attempt to represent the organisation unless you are actually affiliated with and permitted to represent their views.

From their Youth Communique [http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/Youthletter.html]:
"All you have to do to be a real Satanist is start living like one. Dr. LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible so that people could pick up a copy, read it, and know everything they need to know about Satanism and how to put it to work in their own lives. Most people who choose to become members do so as a symbolic act to themselves, to formally align themselves with others of like mind, and to show their support for a philosophy and way of life they agree with. It is a purely personal decision - we don't solicit memberships."
(Added emphasis is mine.)

 

[Thaius]

I know. Any time I see some liberal cuntmuffin claim that someone else is obviously a christian, a republican or a freedom hating nazi just because they disagree with them on something really minor like whether gays should be allowed to marry, I just want to execute them on the spot.
Being open minded does not mean only open minded when they agree with your point of view.

Quoted for truth. Though executing someone on the spot would probably cause a few problems... But yes, especially your last point I agree with.

Beyond that, "open-minded" doesn't mean you should be completely unguarded. Some stuff is just not true. Know what you believe, consider others' ideas, and if they work, great, and if not, don't agree. That's not "closed-mindedness," that's intelligence.

 

[DefunctTheory]

I've read much into Satanism and I do agree with most of the basic ideas behind it (for example the 9 statements), however the fact is that it is a glorified cult that has religious status, technically to even be called a member you must pay the church something along the likes of $200USD.

If you look into this they actually insist that it's not necessary to sign up. They also point out (rightly, IMO) that since many Christian churches fleece you for 10% of your annual income, a one-off fee of $200USD is nothing.

Do you believe what the system preaches or merely share the ideals? If the latter you're not a satanist.

Again, not quite right. According to their site, Church of Satan [www.churchofsatan.com], you are a Satanist if you align with their philosophy. They merely request that you do not attempt to represent the organisation unless you are actually affiliated with and permitted to represent their views.

From their Youth Communique [http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/Youthletter.html]:
"All you have to do to be a real Satanist is start living like one. Dr. LaVey wrote The Satanic Bible so that people could pick up a copy, read it, and know everything they need to know about Satanism and how to put it to work in their own lives. Most people who choose to become members do so as a symbolic act to themselves, to formally align themselves with others of like mind, and to show their support for a philosophy and way of life they agree with. It is a purely personal decision - we don't solicit memberships."
(Added emphasis is mine.)

The Church of Satan is nothing more then a philosophy. I believe he was referring more towards the actual 'We worship Satan and have a copy of that one book' crowd.

EDIT: Also, you imply that Christian Churches are somehow demanding money from you. I've never been to a Church that demanded 10%, or any amount.

And you have to figure that Churches are usually part of a massive chain of places of Worship, many of which can't support their own running cost. Its not like the Bishops are rolling in cash and buying fancy cars and houses (Well, the ones who play it straight aren't).

 

[zen5887]

Spoiler

It depends what satanism you're buying into.

The translation for all forms of satanism is

"I'm an angsty mofoin teenager and I'm pretending to be a part of this absurd religion to shock you. Because I'm so edgy and different."

How much of a tool that makes you depends entierly on the particular brand you think is coolest.

Just so you know. Satanism isn't a real religion. If you're talking about the tripe Anton LaVey laid out in his 'satanic bible'. It's little more than postured musings on individuality.

It doesn't surprise me that your mother would judge it based on it's name. Because if you're going to call it something like that. You're obviously looking for some kind of reaction from the people you tell.

If you actually want to live by 'the creeds' of individuality and indulgence. Here's a novel idea. Why not just be yourself.

Calling yourself a satanist is just a cheap way of getting a rise out of people.

I bet there are pentagrams all over his math book.

Anyways.

I hate when people discount Hip Hop because of what they here on the radio.

 

[Elle-Jai]

Also, for the sake of thoroughness, I'll throw in a couple of other important Satanic points:

Spoiler: The Nine Satanic Sins

The Nine Satanic Sins

by Anton Szandor LaVey ©1987

1. Stupidity?The top of the list for Satanic Sins. The Cardinal Sin of Satanism. It?s too bad that stupidity isn?t painful. Ignorance is one thing, but our society thrives increasingly on stupidity. It depends on people going along with whatever they are told. The media promotes a cultivated stupidity as a posture that is not only acceptable but laudable. Satanists must learn to see through the tricks and cannot afford to be stupid.

2. Pretentiousness?Empty posturing can be most irritating and isn?t applying the cardinal rules of Lesser Magic. On equal footing with stupidity for what keeps the money in circulation these days. Everyone?s made to feel like a big shot, whether they can come up with the goods or not.

3. Solipsism?Can be very dangerous for Satanists. Projecting your reactions, responses and sensibilities onto someone who is probably far less attuned than you are. It is the mistake of expecting people to give you the same consideration, courtesy and respect that you naturally give them. They won?t. Instead, Satanists must strive to apply the dictum of ?Do unto others as they do unto you.? It?s work for most of us and requires constant vigilance lest you slip into a comfortable illusion of everyone being like you. As has been said, certain utopias would be ideal in a nation of philosophers, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, from a Machiavellian standpoint) we are far from that point.

4. Self-deceit?It?s in the ?Nine Satanic Statements? but deserves to be repeated here. Another cardinal sin. We must not pay homage to any of the sacred cows presented to us, including the roles we are expected to play ourselves. The only time self-deceit should be entered into is when it?s fun, and with awareness. But then, it?s not self-deceit!

5. Herd Conformity?That?s obvious from a Satanic stance. It?s all right to conform to a person?s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

6. Lack of Perspective?Again, this one can lead to a lot of pain for a Satanist. You must never lose sight of who and what you are, and what a threat you can be, by your very existence. We are making history right now, every day. Always keep the wider historical and social picture in mind. That is an important key to both Lesser and Greater Magic. See the patterns and fit things together as you want the pieces to fall into place. Do not be swayed by herd constraints?know that you are working on another level entirely from the rest of the world.

7. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies?Be aware that this is one of the keys to brainwashing people into accepting something new and different, when in reality it?s something that was once widely accepted but is now presented in a new package. We are expected to rave about the genius of the creator and forget the original. This makes for a disposable society.

8. Counterproductive Pride?That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you?ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I?m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.

9. Lack of Aesthetics?This is the physical application of the Balance Factor. Aesthetics is important in Lesser Magic and should be cultivated. It is obvious that no one can collect any money off classical standards of beauty and form most of the time so they are discouraged in a consumer society, but an eye for beauty, for balance, is an essential Satanic tool and must be applied for greatest magical effectiveness. It?s not what?s supposed to be pleasing?it?s what is. Aesthetics is a personal thing, reflective of one?s own nature, but there are universally pleasing and harmonious configurations that should not be denied.

Spoiler: Also, the Church's Drug Policy:

"From time to time, we see people approaching the Church of Satan with questions regarding the Church?s policy against illegal drug use, attempting to characterize the freewheeling use and abuse of such substances as being Satanic and, in effect, challenging the Church of Satan?s negative stance.

This is all quite simple. The Church of Satan does not condone illegal activities. If the use of certain drugs is illegal in your country of residence, they are just that: illegal."

Skip a few lines to:

"If a substance is legal, a Satanist may or may not choose to indulge in it. ?Indulgence, NOT compulsion? is your guide. Since survival is the highest law, the Satanist will not ruin or poison his or her body, even if it is legal to do so. This is an important distinction. Self-destructive, suicidal hedonism?via whatever means?is ultimately un-Satanic as it threatens the very thing a Satanist holds most dear: his own life. There is no mystical ?Scoreboard in the Sky? dictating whether such an act is Wrong or Right; it simply IS, and dead brain cells, blackened lungs and non-functional livers are not a matter of opinion."

From the Bunco Sheet [http://churchofsatan.com/Pages/Bunco.html]
"8. Beware of cults offering sex orgies and drugs, or killing animals in the name of Satan. As you well know, these are not part of Satanic practices. The leaders are copying the lame-brain spook stories from Geraldo or Oprah and obviously know less than you do. Use common sense. Don?t let someone take advantage of you for his or her own perversity; examine motives carefully."

If you truly identify as a Satanist, good for you. If you're doing it for the "shock factor" without a full understanding of how it works, then perhaps a little more study is in order

Note: I am not a Satanist. I do not identify as a Satanist, and I am not affiliated with the Church. I am fascinated by and interested in Satanism, and currently that's as far as it goes.)

 

[SimuLord]

Funny, cause Hebrew Satan is just one of God's angels that watches the world and gives a status report to God on how everyone is doing.

Then again, the Hebrew God is more human than Buddha half the time.

I've always imagined Allah/God/Jehova (they're the same anywho) to be much like a kid with a magnifying glass and we are the ants. On his off days he kills us for fun.

I believe that the Abrahamic God (in his various forms) is the deistic personification of evil itself. The First Commandment more or less acknowledges that he's just one god of many:

"I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

If there WERE no other gods, this statement would not be necessary.

And furthermore, the sadistic tendency to torture his followers coupled with the ludicrous things done in his name convinces me that indeed Abrahamic monotheism is the embrace of evil in the guise of good.

 

[Kiju]

Look at the pot calling the kettle black...

Sigh.

 

[Sacman]

I know I got spammed for a week when...

Spoiler

[color= white]I told everyone I was dating my cousin...[/color]

which I still am...

 

[Elle-Jai]

The Church of Satan is nothing more then a philosophy. I believe he was referring more towards the actual 'We worship Satan and have a copy of that one book' crowd.

EDIT: Also, you imply that Christian Churches are somehow demanding money from you. I've never been to a Church that demanded 10%, or any amount.

Heard of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormons) who self-identify as Christians? They demand to see your tax returns, and claim the full 10%. Other churches also do it, both within the U.S., Australia, the U.K. and throughout Europe and... You get the idea.

Spoiler: Wikipedia Entry on Tithing

Referring to Wikipedia [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tithe]: "A tithe (from Old English teogoba "tenth") is a one-tenth part of something, paid as a (usually) voluntary contribution or as a tax or levy, usually to support a religious organization. Today, tithes (or tithing) are normally voluntary and paid in cash, cheques, or stocks... Several European countries operate a formal process linked to the tax system allowing some churches to assess tithes.
"In recent years, tithing has been taught in Christian circles as a form of stewardship that God requires of Christians. The primary argument is that God has never formally "abolished" the tithe, and thus Christians should pay the tithe (usually calculated at 10 percent of all gross income from all sources."

Although the Biblical "authority" for tithing is flimsy at best, it is still taught, still checked, and still adhered to by many within the faith. I still fail to see exactly where this is benefiting the community however, since the reason for tithing is meant to be that it goes to help the needy who cannot do for themselves; instead, these days, it's more likely to be spent on a brand-spanking new church than it is the hungry and homeless of the community.

Spoiler: The Church of Satan explains the $200USD cost this way:

"We must emphasize that you don?t have to join our organization to consider yourself a Satanist, you only need to recognize yourself in The Satanic Bible and live according to the tenets outlined therein. We don?t proselytize, or otherwise campaign for people to join?that is your prerogative. We have supplied this information which explains how you can affiliate if you so choose.

Most Christian churches will charge you a tithe that counts for 10% of your yearly income?membership in them is not free, as so many assume. If you are an individual of limited financial resources who wishes to become a member, we suggest that you put the money aside piecemeal, and join when you have saved it up?we?ll still be here. We don?t expect people to put aside important things in their life in favor of joining our organization?Satanists abhor the idea of sacrifice.

For those who think we ask too much, we suggest that you look to your other possessions and expenses as a comparison. Most people spend far more than this amount on general entertainment. We?ve discovered that most individuals can muster these funds if membership is something they truly desire. Bear in mind that our church has real people doing work, such as corresponding with individuals, and otherwise helping to run an international organization (postage, paper, computers, email accounts, and so on are not free). Our administrative staff?s time is precious?isn?t yours? Also, we are emphatically not altruists. We?re Satanists, so we expect to be compensated for our time and efforts.

So, our reasoning is quite simple, and we think it is a bargain. If you disagree, then you don?t have to affiliate with us."

 

[Sacman]

I know I got spammed for a week when...

Spoiler

[color= white]I told everyone I was dating my cousin...[/color]

which I still am...

You understand that you were pretty stupid about it. You didn't tell anyone that it was a non blood related cousin and by the time you did the damage was done.

Going out with anyone that closely related by blood is fucked up man, the blood thing is crucial.

We weren't overly judgemental, you didn't give us enough info.

you don't know how many times I got spammed pictures of King Charles II of Spain...

 

[Elle-Jai]

I bet there are pentagrams all over his math book.

Minor issue old chap, but pentagrams (5-pointed stars) are Pagan. Baphomets (upside-down 5-pointed stars with a goat face) are Satanic. I could just tell you'd be grateful to know the difference

I believe that the Abrahamic God (in his various forms) is the deistic personification of evil itself. The First Commandment more or less acknowledges that he's just one god of many:

"I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

If there WERE no other gods, this statement would not be necessary.

And furthermore, the sadistic tendency to torture his followers coupled with the ludicrous things done in his name convinces me that indeed Abrahamic monotheism is the embrace of evil in the guise of good.

He is but one God of many. His name is Jehovah, He is the tribal God of the Jews, and such quotes from places like prior to the David/Goliath fight, where Jehovah says to David "Fight him not on the plains, where his God is stronger, but on the hills, where I am stronger" just add to that. (That little paraphrase came to me courtesy of a friend studying to become a priest.)

However, being a tribal God, He is also limited. He is not all-powerful, and He is not generally running about abolishing His own followers.

Bad things happen. This is the nature of the world. We have free will, and we make our own choices, and these choices impact others. God isn't a mythical parental figure saving us every time we scrape our knees; He watches, and occasionally tries to get us to help ourselves, but no one's messing with space/time just for an ant. And in the breadth of the cosmos, we're less than an ant.

/essay.

 

[Sacman]

I know I got spammed for a week when...

Spoiler

[color= white]I told everyone I was dating my cousin...[/color]

which I still am...

You understand that you were pretty stupid about it. You didn't tell anyone that it was a non blood related cousin and by the time you did the damage was done.

Going out with anyone that closely related by blood is fucked up man, the blood thing is crucial.

We weren't overly judgemental, you didn't give us enough info.

you don't know how many times I got spammed pictures of King Charles II of Spain...

And none of us knew that your cousin had no genetic relation to you. The point stands.

I didn't think it was that important...

 

[Sacman]

I know I got spammed for a week when...

Spoiler

[color= white]I told everyone I was dating my cousin...[/color]

which I still am...

You understand that you were pretty stupid about it. You didn't tell anyone that it was a non blood related cousin and by the time you did the damage was done.

Going out with anyone that closely related by blood is fucked up man, the blood thing is crucial.

We weren't overly judgemental, you didn't give us enough info.

you don't know how many times I got spammed pictures of King Charles II of Spain...

And none of us knew that your cousin had no genetic relation to you. The point stands.

I didn't think it was that important...

*cough* incest *cough*.

Anyway, I'm sure by now you've learnt your lesson, genetic relation is important in that context.

yes, I learned my lesson...