Is Mass Effect 2 a good Role-Playing Game?

[Sore Thumbs]

Having recently beaten Oblivion for the 4th time using for fundamentally different character builds, I reflected on why it was the best RPG I've ever played. I settled on the fact that I can assign any type of character I want and s/he wouldn't feel out of place in the world of Oblivion. I then thought about other RPGs that didn't succeed in this area. Since I just completed both the inFamous games, I noticed the cognitive dissonance that seemed to be present with Cole MacGrath, since even if he were Evil, almost every single thing he'd do was for the benifit of someone else.

Then I thought about one of the best games I've ever played, Mass Effect 2, and remembered that it was often refered to as, "Bioware's sci-fi RPG Epic". But is it really a role-playing game when you're always, no matter what, Commander Shepard of the SS Normandy, assembling a team to defeat the Collectors and save the world?

Even if you're "Renegade", it's still the inFamous problem, with everything you're doing being justified in the Machiavellian, "Ends justify the means" way.

So with all that in mind, is Mass Effect 2 a good RPG?

 

[Woodsey]

Mass Effect is about evolving a particular character through choices, Oblivion is about creating a character through skills and their place in the world.

Both are valid ways in which to create an RPG. Both games are very fucking good.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I'm surprised that you consider Oblivion to be good from a role-playing perspective. Sure you have a good amount of freedom, however even if you have a character idea in your head there are very few moments where you can actually express your characters emotions in dialogue. Most characters end up feeling the same from a role-playing perspective as a result since there are so few moments for you to actually, well, role-play.

Mass Effect 2 lets you express yourself in several different ways and actually attempts to change the world in response to this. Sure you are always Commander Shepard but that's becuase the plot of a game is built around a central storyline. Just becuase this is the case does not mean the game severly limits role-playing. What does limit role-playing is the stupid morality system that punishes you for not sticking to either paragon or renegade throughout the game. The does limit roleplaying and should be done away with. Overall though I'd say the game is good for role-playing.

 

[Bobbity]

Well, here you reach the tiny problem of the RPG genre; nobody knows how the fuck to define it.

In a sense, Mass Effect is a truer RPG than Oblivion, because you're playing a particular role, and you have no choice but to do so. But then, that makes almost everything an RPG.

In another sense, Oblivion is the prime example of an RPG, because you define your character completely, in that you take on a role, and play through it however seems appropriate to you.

In yet another way, Minecraft is the best RPG of all. It's a totally open sandbox, and there are literally no restraints. You can be whoever you want to be, and you can do whoever you want to be.

For some, a game is not RPG unless it is such in the traditional sense; in that it has numbers and figures and dice and a D&D scheme. There was a massive fuss about DA2 a while ago, because those people got upset that it was no longer a 'traditional RPG'.

I mean, it's not even obvious half the time. Pokemon is technically an RPG on the level of at least any JRPG you've ever played, but that's certainly not obvious, is it?

I mean, is an RPG something by which you define yourself in terms of gameplay, in terms of events, plot, or even a combination of the three? I mean, is it how you reach the end that counts? Is it what you've determined that end to be? Should an RPG even have an ending? No one's ever bothered to make a definitive statement about it, so we've just been standing around arguing for years.

When we finally get around to deciding on a particular definition for the term, then I'll let you know.

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

Well no computer RPGs are really that much about Roleplaying. There will always be some limmitations and linearity as to your character and story.
In the video game sense of RPG, yeah it is. You have tons of upgradeable skills and gear to equip and micromanage, you do make choices as shepard and theres quite a nice story.
An RPG is still an RPG even if you got a pre-made character sheet.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

I'll tell you what, Define the phrase "Role Playing Game" for me will'ya? Because somehow....Diablo 2 is in the same Genre as Mass Effect 2. How the FUCK did that happen games industry?

Not that it's a big deal or anything. But it's just that: how can you call ME2 a bad RPG, if we can't even pin down what that word MEANS exactly.

-snip of what I said, but in greater detail-

Damn you Gandalf the Grey Ninja!!

I guess I better add something now huh? Well Mass Effect, to me, feels like the absolute BEST attempt ever made, to merge the "dreaded" Cutscenes with gameplay, by making the cutscenes themselves integral parts of the game. Best of both worlds methinks.

 

[Inco]

Even if you're "Renegade", it's still the inFamous problem, with everything you're doing being justified in the Machiavellian, "Ends justify the means" way.

That's always the intention that Bioware had put out there. They wanted you to have a character that will go and save the galaxy, the paragon and renegade approach determines how you get there and how many people are saved/screwed in the process.

They didn't want the "save" or "destroy" choice to be an option, but gave the player an alternative.

 

[kalt_13]

Shepard isn't evil. He was never ment to be. Like you say the ends justify the means. No one belives him about the reapers so he has to be forcefull in how he gets things done.

Cole is selfserving and want to just make things easier for himself.

I don't see them as comparable. I would say ME2 is a good rpg.

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

I'll tell you what, Define the phrase "Role Playing Game" for me. Because somehow....Diablo 2 is in the same Genre as Mass Effect 2. How the FUCK did that happen games industry.

Not that it's a big deal or anything. But it's just that, how can you call ME2 a bad RPG, if we can't even pin down what that word MEANS exactly.

Dude, genres are a load of bullshit overall. They are WAY too vaguely defined to be of any use in a discussion, they just serve as purchase guides. "See this game you like? Theres a cathegory of games that are kinda like it."

 

[Bobbity]

Shepard isn't evil. He was never ment to be. Like you say the ends justify the means. No one belives him about the reapers so he has to be forcefull in how he gets things done.

Except that with TOR stealing all of ME's writing talent, Bioware kind of forgot about that in the sequel. Now being a Renegade just kind of makes him a jerk.

 

[kalt_13]

Shepard isn't evil. He was never ment to be. Like you say the ends justify the means. No one belives him about the reapers so he has to be forcefull in how he gets things done.

Except that with TOR stealing all of ME's writing talent, Bioware kind of forgot about that in the sequel. Now being a Renegade just kind of makes him a jerk.

Opps my bad.

Shepard isn't evil. He was never ment to be. Like you say the ends justify the means. No one belives him about the reapers so he has to be a jerk to get things done.

Fixed now.

 

[Sore Thumbs]

The thing about Cole though, is that I've completed every side quest on the first island of the game, and just about every single quest is him helping someone else. There are like 3 different types of quests that help doctors and get medical supplies, saving maybe hundreds of lives, and you don't get Good Karma for that.

And as far as the ending goes

Spoiler

Either way, Cole commits genocide, so I don't see either ending as being wholey good or evil

.

It's an even bigger problem in Red Dead Redemption. I did everything I possibly could to be as evil as possible (tying people up, putting them under oil lamps and setting them on fire; leaving tied up women on train tracks) and despite all the evil shit I would do, people STILL asked me to help them pick flowers and shit, stuff that was completely against the essence of who I decided John Marston to be.

 

[Jandau]

I'll stick to it being a good game. Not sure about the RPG part since if I call it an RPG I'll have a bunch of people jumping down my throat demanding I take that back. For what it's worth, I find it a better RPG than Oblivion, which isn't saying much since I think Oblivion is a steaming pile of poop. Granted, to me "RPG" doesn't mean just "stats and skill trees" (they are a part of it, but only a part).

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

Every neutral quest Cole does kinda has personal motives behind it. The medical supplies he recovered for instace created a new clinic in which he could heal. Evil doesnt mean he has no long-term planing XD

 

[Sore Thumbs]

I guess this whole thread begs the question: What do you think makes a good RPG?

In my opinion, it's the ability to play as multiple roles in a game and not feel out of place in the game world. To me, ME2 doesn't count, because it doesn't let you play multiple roles, the way I see it.

 

[veloper]

How do you recommend a RPG to somebody who thinks TES4 is the best RPG? Play Fallout3 then.

ME2 is a half-decent shooter with a semi-interactive story. It doesn't let you muck about endlessly like sandbox Oblivion.

 

[CommanderKirov]

It's not.

But It's an excellent space opera.

 

[wurrble182]

christ what do people even mean when they say RPG anymore? in a literal context, NO, mass effect is NOT a good RPG because as a role-playing-game it is very limited only allowing you to play the 'role' of a planet hopping (sorry, scanning) power armored space dude who communicates in varying degrees of douchbaggery/heroicness. however as an experience point gaining, party levelling up and story telling game it excels greatly and i highly recommend it

 

[Kahunaburger]

Well, here you reach the tiny problem of the RPG genre; nobody knows how the fuck to define it.

Truth.

OT: Given that my definition of RPG tends to (except in the case of some JRPGs) revolve around how complex and responsive the narrative is, I tend to put ME2 (along with stuff like DA:O) right below the Devil Survivor/Witcher 2 tier. It makes good storytelling choices - stuff like Legion's, Mordin's, or Tali's loyalty missions are awesome - but doesn't make those stories the center of the game and instead focuses on a plot hole-heavy and surprisingly inflexible narrative that is further dragged down by questionably plausible and poorly-integrated ninjamances. So in other words, ME2 is a game that can wow me with its narrative skill one second and annoy me with its narrative stumbles the next second.

 

[Ghengis John]

Mass Effect is about evolving a particular character through choices, Oblivion is about creating a character through skills and their place in the world.

Both are valid ways in which to create an RPG. Both games are very fucking good.

You must be getting tired of me quoting you by now, but this man speaks the truth.

Commander Shepard is still who you make him as a reflection of his deeds and the world that he inhabits. Of course the game has limitations, you can't rename your character or pick another objective but that's only by necessity. Every game has it's limitations though as a matter of practicality. You still have to close the oblivion gates to finish the game in oblivion and you can't just take off for a vacation in Morrowind at a whim.