Is mentioning something without showing it worldbuilding

[PapaGreg096]

I'm having an argument with some people on a specific forum on whether or not mentioning something without showing it is an example of world building for example if a character says he/she wants to protect a sibling and we never see said sibling is that an example of worldbuilding

 

[Dansen]

I'd say its a minor technique of world building. If done right it can give the audience a greater sense of the world's scale and where the story fits into it. It can also give you places to take the story if you run out of ideas. Take Joshua Gram from Fallout New Vegas for example. We hear about how Ceasar executed his right hand man and confidant for not securing hoover dam. How he lit him on fire and kicked him into the Grand Canyon, this event in turn gives rise to the myth of "The Burned Man", in the ranks of the Legion. Until the DLC "Honest Hearts" came out, I was totally fine with never seeing this man because just his story was able to tell us so much about the world.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

IMO, you can totally mention something without showing it to help with the worldbuilding. Doctor Who does that quite often where a situation they got out of is talked about but wasn't seen in an episode or the Doctor talks about a planet that was never seen or may never be seen. Or Escape From L.A. where the infamous Cleveland escape is mentioned.

 

[PapaGreg096]

I'd say its a minor technique of world building. If done right it can give the audience a greater sense of the world's scale and where the story fits into it. It can also give you places to take the story if you run out of ideas. Take Joshua Gram from Fallout New Vegas for example. We hear about how Ceasar executed his right hand man and confidant for not securing hoover dam. How he lit him on fire and kicked him into the Grand Canyon, this event in turn gives rise to the myth of "The Burned Man", in the ranks of the Legion. Until the DLC "Honest Hearts" came out, I was totally fine with never seeing this man because just his story was able to tell us so much about the world.

But would you say a character mentioning protecting a little sister and then we never see or hear from her an example of worldbuilding

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I don't know, I think in the end there is little difference in showing and telling, so longas the telling is handled in a unique way, or appropriately cryptic or illusive. For example, TES series has a rich plethora of historical eras, andweirdness. Most of which not even covered in the games. But it present the 'telling'; of why things are in a manner that makes sense for the world to expound in. Through books. Having vast libraries of knowledge just scattered out there that you could immerse yourself and understand why things are as they are ... with the added benefit that if you're a veteran player you know the 'beyond the public eye' stuff, and if you're a novice player, you're merely caught up in the mythos of what everyone else knows and not the 'reality' of what really occurred.

It's both a 'showing' and a 'telling' of world building. It helps to create two different world building things depending on the knowledge you bring into the game. Which works well with the whole basis of player freedom in games that can't be accommodated for (well, it works as best as you could hope for).

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

But would you say a character mentioning protecting a little sister and then we never see or hear from her an example of worldbuilding

I wouldn't consider a character just having a sister or protecting her to be part of worldbuilding. I consider worldbuilding to be building the world (duh!) from how it looks to how it operates (water situation, food situation, how the animal ecosystem is, how the human[oid] races interact, the form of energy used, culture, etc.). I wouldn't consider a character's relationship to another character being something that adds to the worldbuilding. Say how the hobbits interact with the elves in LotR is worldbuilding. But Frodo and Bilbo being cousins is not apart of the worldbuilding.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Yes, it can totally be a form of world building. Heck, not mentioning something can be a form of world building. It all depends on the author's skill.

Two examples that come to mind right off the top of my head (mainly because I just finished reading the books) are from "Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?"

In one of the earlier books, Ares is mentioned in passing, and how he is sort of stirring up trouble a little. This remark is literally no more than two or three sentences, but it has HUGE world implications. Not only does it imply that Ares will eventually become a problem that the Bell and and the gang will have to deal with, but it is the first time we learn that there are actually gods outside of the city.
Another incident just happened in the newest volume.

Spoiler

Hermes gives Bell the entire breakdown of Zeus and Hera's familias, and he explains that they were kicked out because their familias failed to resolve the last of the grand quests. And just by mentioning that this final quest is still out there--and that it involves killing a dragon--we now have our ultimate goal of the series, although Bell has no idea about that now.

So yeah, just mentioning something off hand can easily build the world. Steven Universe is another prime example of this happening. Because Steven doesn't ask questions, Pearl, Garnet, and Amethyst are constantly mentioning things that he doesn't pick up on or question, but it allows the audience to slowly piece together a bigger world.

 

[Fox12]

Isn't that Dark Souls's whole shtick? It's actually an ingenious way to develop a world if you have a limited budget, page count, or story.

 

[PapaGreg096]

Isn't that Dark Souls's whole shtick? It's actually an ingenious way to develop a world if you have a limited budget, page count, or story.

Thats more showing then telling

 

[twistedmic]

Roy Batty's monologue in Blade Runner could be considered worldbuilding, to a degree.
In spoiler tags just in case someone has not yet seen the movie

Spoiler

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannh?user Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die.

It shows, in just a few words, that mankind has spread far out in the stars.

 

[Fox12]

Isn't that Dark Souls's whole shtick? It's actually an ingenious way to develop a world if you have a limited budget, page count, or story.

Thats more showing then telling

It's both. The world tells you a story on its own, but Dark Souls has a lot of telling. And, counter to popular belief, that's fine. Because it's subtle about it. You never see most of the locations in Dark Souls, but you get a good feel for the world after you read the item descriptions.

 

[Avnger]

One of my favorite shows ever (to take this off video games for a second) Arrested Development does quite a bit of telling and not showing for the first episode or 2. I didn't realize it till I was re-watching earlier today. Personally, I think there is nothing actually wrong with the idea of "telling not showing." It's simply a case of balance and proportionality like everything else in storytelling. There are certain areas that it excels in because of how quick and easy it is to get snippets of information across to the audience, but if it's overdone or used for large chunks of world building (eg: text dumps and/or mass effect style "tell me more with 80 option dialogue tree"), it can be awful.

 

[Here Comes Tomorrow]

One of my favorite shows ever (to take this off video games for a second) Arrested Development does quite a bit of telling and not showing for the first episode or 2. I didn't realize it till I was re-watching earlier today. Personally, I think there is nothing actually wrong with the idea of "telling not showing." It's simply a case of balance and proportionality like everything else in storytelling. There are certain areas that it excels in because of how quick and easy it is to get snippets of information across to the audience, but if it's overdone or used for large chunks of world building (eg: text dumps and/or mass effect style "tell me more with 80 option dialogue tree"), it can be awful.

You can watch Arrested Development like 4 times and keep noticing new stuff. Its insane.

As for OP question. Dude saying he has a sister is character building, not world building. Unless sisters or siblings are uncommon for some reason?

It stands to reason that a person could have a relative, it's not an odd thing. If there was like a law stating only one child per family or something and she had to be kept hidden or some such, then it could be considered world building.

 

[happyninja42]

I'm having an argument with some people on a specific forum on whether or not mentioning something without showing it is an example of world building for example if a character says he/she wants to protect a sibling and we never see said sibling is that an example of worldbuilding

I think it depends on exactly what you mean by the word "worldbuilding". If you are using the term to mean roughly "Some information/aspect of the gameplay/background that fleshes out the characters and the world they live in, expanding the frame of reference for their actions." Then yes, I would say it's world building. It gives you some insight into the character and their motivations.

It lets us know several things:

1. The character has a family (at least a sister, but possibly more)
2. He cares about that person a great deal
3. He is doing whatever he is doing in the story for that person. Possibly putting himself in peril in order to protect/provide for said sister.

It also implies, and opens up possible branches for the character:

1. He might turn on the protagonist, if doing so would protect/provide for his sister, causing potential friction and plot drama.
2. He might be the character likely to give his life for something, as he has already been established to be doing things for the sake of another.


It sounds a lot like Gears of War. That guy that is fighting the aliens because he wants to find his wife. At least for a few of the games, he doesn't find her. It's just his motivation for why he's there. He's not there just because he's a soldier, and he was ordered to fight. Or because he's a blood thirsty psychopath that lives for the kill. No, he's trying to find his wife. It tells you that he loves her deeply, otherwise he wouldn't be doing this. It tells you that he has hope in what is portrayed as a shitty world. And it tells you that he is able to conceive of a world/life outside of constant war, and that that life is worth fighting for.


So yeah, that's a lot of unpacking potential by simply giving a character a minor motivation.

I mean. Blonde guy who fights in your party. Or, Blonde guy who fights in your party to protect his sister. Which one establishes more information for you to work with?

 

[Saltyk]

The game series Suikoden did this quite a bit.

In Suikoden, your journey takes place primarily in the Scarlet Moon Empire. You never really go outside of the nation, though you do meet dwarves, elves, and kobolds. Now, late in the game, you battle a general near one of the Northern borders. In order to best him, your strategist states that he sent a letter to the nation to the North, The Jowston City-State, informing them of the attack. Soon scouts tell the general that an army has amassed on the border and it becomes clear that no matter the outcome of the fight, which the general will lose, the Jowston forces will invade. This actually forces the general to join forces with your army in order to prevent an invasion.

We do not see the Jowston City-State, or their army during Suikoden. We don't even meet one of their officers. We simply hear of this army.

However, Suikdoen II take places in the Jowston City-State as it battles the Kingdom of Highland. While you do go to the capital of the original game's nation to ask for help, you don't see much else of it. However, you do meet Sasarai from the nation of Harmonia who's army aides the Highland forces in some battles. And even later you encounter Lucia of the Karaya Clan of the Grasslands. Both characters and nations appear in Suikoden III.

And, yes, in Suikoden III a NPC in a town mentions the Island Nations which is where Suikoden IV takes place.

There's a legend in the games of two powerful mages who are rivals and seek immortality, Crowley and Mazus, who was taught by Crowley. Supposedly, they once fought, leveled a mountain and caused it to rain for a week. Crowley can be recruited in Suikoden, and Mazus in Suikoden II. (Oh, and according to the official timeline they were each born after their duel.) In Suikoden III, the old wizard Piccolo claims to be the third student of Crowley.

And these are just off the top of my head. There are almost certainly more examples of people mentioning things that don't appear in the game they are in.

 

[Saelune]

World building is establishing facts. Mentioning something is establishing a fact. As long as you dont deviate, its fine.

However it seems you are having issues over characterization rather than "world-building".

 

[Lightspeaker]

In one of the earlier books, Ares is mentioned in passing, and how he is sort of stirring up trouble a little. This remark is literally no more than two or three sentences, but it has HUGE world implications. Not only does it imply that Ares will eventually become a problem that the Bell and and the gang will have to deal with, but it is the first time we learn that there are actually gods outside of the city.

I literally just read the bit I think you're talking about today!

Volume 4 to be precise. The Denatus.


On topic: yes it can be. But that specific example is pretty weak really. Mentioning other characters, family members, whatever is definitely expanding upon the world you 'see' in a work of fiction. But something so minor is barely worth it.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Roy Batty's monologue in Blade Runner could be considered worldbuilding, to a degree.
In spoiler tags just in case someone has not yet seen the movie

Spoiler

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannh?user Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears...in...rain. Time to die.

It shows, in just a few words, that mankind has spread far out in the stars.

Yes and no.

Yes, in the strictest sense, in that it does.

No, in that this was coming at the very end of the movie, and that point had been mentioned many, many times previously. The artificial people aren't allowed on Earth, there's ads to get people off-world, there's a character that says they are medically incapable of going offworld etc. It adds to the world, but not much by that point. It would have if it had come earlier in the film, though.

One of my favorite shows ever (to take this off video games for a second) Arrested Development does quite a bit of telling and not showing for the first episode or 2. I didn't realize it till I was re-watching earlier today. Personally, I think there is nothing actually wrong with the idea of "telling not showing." It's simply a case of balance and proportionality like everything else in storytelling. There are certain areas that it excels in because of how quick and easy it is to get snippets of information across to the audience, but if it's overdone or used for large chunks of world building (eg: text dumps and/or mass effect style "tell me more with 80 option dialogue tree"), it can be awful.

Yeah, conventional wisdom says "show, don't tell", but telling often works better. Showing is difficult and sometimes falls flat.

Star Trek often has a problem with this (don't know why). Someone will mention something from some distant place, and it feels forced, rather than flowing naturally.

Generally, I find the better examples are when the world building is wrapped in something else. The example from Blade Runner above is about the character, not the world, but adds to the world as well.

 

[CaitSeith]

IMO, it would be a case by case scenario. The example sounds more like character development than worldbuilding (specially if the sister doesn't even exist and the character is just lying). But if the character talks about his hometown or the ruler of his country (or that his sister was involved in something important); then I would say it's worldbuilding (even if we never see any of these).

 

[Cycloptomese]

The best example that comes to mind for me is in A New Hope where Luke mentions the clone wars. I suppose that whole conversation. It establishes that the world has a lot of history. Now that I think about it, A New Hope does this constantly. They don't actually show a whole lot. Mostly Tatooine and the death star.