Is 'Spec Ops: The Line' 'Kingdom Come' for video games?

[Nadia Castle]

I know this is coming a fair while after its release, but I just picked up and completed 'Spec Ops: The Line' and absolutely adored it. A game that finally grabs you and points out that this generations trend for generic military shooters isn't a sign of how mature and edgy it is, but a childish power fantasy. When I finished playing I released how strikingly similar this was to DC comics 'Kingdom Come', the comic book that finally denounced the muscle clad 'gritty' dark age of comics.

I don't doubt for a second that we're in gamings 'dark age', a period dominated by teenage power fantasy, pointless 'collectibles' and treasured icons being made more 'hardcore' (poor Bomberman), but does anyone else think (or just hope?) that Spec Ops might the one that leads to more games that think beyond the utter wasteland that shooting games have become?

 

[Pink Gregory]

That would imply that Spec Ops had the impact on the entire world of videogames that it had on the people that played it and had the same thoughts as you.

and I'm not sure that's the case.

There are plenty of games that manage to tread the line between message and gameplay without being either a pompous art game or...CoD...Spec Ops (although I don't agree, but I haven't played it) is such an example of a game that does it well (or so I hear), but I don't reckon it's epoch-changing. That it got published is promising, but ultimately it's one voice to a million ears, not everybody's going to hear.

 

[woodaba]

I definitely understood the parallels, and I adore both works, but I don't think Spec Ops is like our Kingdom Come, because it lacks hope.

Kingdom Come was about rightfully kicking the Dork Age of Comics right square in the balls, while giving a big hug to the Silver and Golden ages. Hell, why do you think many of the prominent characters were drawn from the Justice Society rather than the League? Spec Ops does nothing of the sort. I'd actually compare it to Watchmen more than anything else: a critique of the medium and how it hold up when you look at it from a realistic point of view, even though Watchmen arguably created the Dark Age it criticises.

 

[Rock Beefchest]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

 

[woodaba]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the thread...

 

[Saviordd1]

Time for a mini rant here.

This ISN'T the dark ages. It's not, that's like calling it the dark ages of movies to.

What pessimists (and that's who thinks this, lets be honest) seem to forget is that for every COD there IS a good game that isn't an empowerment fantasy. Just because COD is the most popular doesn't mean shit, there are good games with good ideas that will get noticed. (Hell look at tomorrow, Dishonored and Xcom are both unique games that so far have been getting nothing but good press)

Let's get off of the "Woe is this gaming generation" shtick and actually look at the full picture shall we?

OT: No, it wasn't noticed enough to make the transition, sorry.

 

[Rock Beefchest]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the thread...

Yes it does the Op asked whether we thought the game would lead to more games and I don't believe so because the target audience i don't feel is actually going to get it. Therefore it will just be another mediocre shooter in their minds and not suceed in comparison to games that lead the genre.

Perhaps that was more implicit in my post than spelled out, but that was my intent.

 

[woodaba]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the thread...

Yes it does the Op asked whether we thought the game would lead to more games and I don't believe so because the target audience i don't feel is actually going to get it. Therefore it will just be another mediocre shooter in their minds and not suceed in comparison to games that lead the genre.

Perhaps that was more implicit in my post than spelled out, but that was my intent.

That's one hell of a leap from "No I don't think it will lead to anything" to "No one got Spec Ops because most people are dumb"

 

[Nadia Castle]

"I'd actually compare it to Watchmen more than anything else: a critique of the medium and how it hold up when you look at it from a realistic point of view, even though Watchmen arguably created the Dark Age it criticises."

Yeah that's actually the better parallel thinking about it. Perhaps Watchmen at the time of Kingdom Come. Its a pity Spec Ops won't get noticed more for what it represents but god knows do we need it right now.

"What pessimists (and that's who thinks this, lets be honest) seem to forget is that for every COD there IS a good game that isn't an empowerment fantasy. Just because COD is the most popular doesn't mean shit, there are good games with good ideas that will get noticed."

Really? I struggle to name anything from this generation that was a big seller and wasn't either a throwaway game or nothing but a power trip. All shooting games now revolve around you single-handedly gunning down and entire armies worth of enemies to save the world (a step back really when you remember COD started off making you a grunt). You no longer mearly race in racing games, you plough through streets wreaking other cars and your opponents being chased by police cars. Even in supposed horror games your a one man wrecking ball cutting through monsters like their made of tissue.

Hell some games have even binned the idea of making anything else in the world unique or interesting. Now you fight with 'The Resistance' against 'The Authority' and you are 'The Hero'. Don't get me wrong I love a one man against the world battle, games like Serious Sam are excellent, but I hadn't played anything in years that made me feel swept up in bigger things. Thankfully Spec Ops twists and turns about back stabbing hopelessness actually made me feel like shit was going to happen regardless of me fighting to Konrad or not.

 

[alphamalet]

Spec Ops: The Line is such a shame. A brilliant, deep, well-thought narrative packaged with such uninspired gameplay. I would love to call the game great, but I can't. At least the story is excellent.

 

[Rock Beefchest]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the thread...

Yes it does the Op asked whether we thought the game would lead to more games and I don't believe so because the target audience i don't feel is actually going to get it. Therefore it will just be another mediocre shooter in their minds and not suceed in comparison to games that lead the genre.

Perhaps that was more implicit in my post than spelled out, but that was my intent.

That's one hell of a leap from "No I don't think it will lead to anything" to "No one got Spec Ops because most people are dumb"

Ok,I'm done. You're putting words in my mouth. I never claimed anyone was dumb. I implied a bit of immaturity on the part of the average gamer in that genre from my opinion based on my observations, but did not attack the intelligence of anyone. I apologize readers of the escapist forum for being too vague. Next time I will write a three page thesis with complete citations outlining every principle I am referring to instead of asking for the reader to read between the lines a bit based upon the OP.


OT:

Spec Ops: The Line is such a shame. A brilliant, deep, well-thought narrative packaged with such uninspired gameplay. I would love to call the game great, but I can't. At least the story is excellent.

I think the game play being challenging was a decision. Like what EC said about it in their video series, spec ops didn't have the budget and developer backing to tighten the game play so they decided to use the game play limitations to further develop the story. Sort of a disconnect between the player and the game to make the player feel that much more uneasy with the story progression. If it was intentional is is groundbreaking and I want to see other developers do something similar to make a positive out of a negative. Unfortunately, I doubt that will happen as I don't believe the weight of the game will be felt by the community at large to an extent necessary to influence the genre as a whole against the massive powerhouse brands like COD.

 

[woodaba]

Spec Ops, I feel, Flew over the heads of many of the people who played it. The same power fantasy teen players probably didn't "get it". I hate to sound pompous or arrogant, but it think the message might have been a bit too subtle for those type of players to grasp.

That's nice, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the thread...

Yes it does the Op asked whether we thought the game would lead to more games and I don't believe so because the target audience i don't feel is actually going to get it. Therefore it will just be another mediocre shooter in their minds and not suceed in comparison to games that lead the genre.

Perhaps that was more implicit in my post than spelled out, but that was my intent.

That's one hell of a leap from "No I don't think it will lead to anything" to "No one got Spec Ops because most people are dumb"

Ok,I'm done. You're putting words in my mouth. I never claimed anyone was dumb. I implied a bit of immaturity on the part of the average gamer in that genre from my opinion based on my observations, but did not attack the intelligence of anyone. I apologize readers of the escapist forum for being too vague. Next time I will write a three page thesis with complete citations outlining every principle I am referring to instead of asking for the reader to read between the lines a bit based upon the OP.

Or, you know, just say what you mean in the future.

 

[Gabanuka]

Spoiler

I think Kingdom Come is overrated

Yeh its good but I think there are much better comics out there. However I do feel that Spec Ops is a big milestone for games, there's no reason for me to explain since everyone else can do a better job of it.

 

[woodaba]

I think Kingdom Come is overrated

I...I...I...

...can totally understand this. To really "get" Kingdom Come, you need to have experienced the Golden Age of Comics, The Silver Age, and The Dark Age to understand all the points it's making. And not many can say that they've done that.