Is the Western Anime market better now than it was a few years ago?

[themistermanguy]

In the late-90s to mid-2000s, Anime was big. Titles like Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, etc. were breaking ratings records. Almost every Youth-focused network tried grabbing whatever show they could find, and even Western animation began taking ques from the format. But somewhere along the lines, the bubble burst. Networks began dropping or reducing anime from their daily lineup, several distributors died due to over-extending themselves and lack of focus (ADV), failing to evolve (Geneon), incompetence (4kids), or simply lack of interest (Bandai). Even people within the industry were getting the same feeling, Anime just wasn't big anymore, at best, it went back to simply being an underground niche like it was in the early-mid 90s, and at worst many speculated that the market in North America was dying.

That brings us to today, the mid-late 2010s. While we're not living the Anime boom like we were back in 2003, I think the digital age has given the anime market a new lease of life in the mainstream west. Companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll have been trailblazers in the streaming space with their simulcast formats, airing legal subtitled versions of shows within just days, even hours of their Japanese broadcast, Funimation even goes as far as to dub their shows within at least a week of broadcast using its patented SimulDub technique. Netflix is also becoming a rising distributor in the scene with the likes of Aggretsuko and Devilman Crybaby, and while not the ratings behemoth it was in its Cartoon Network-era, Adult Swim's Toonami lineup still maintains a loyal cult-following every Saturday. Before, if you wanted Anime, you'd need to wait for a network to get syndication rights, buy expensive DVD releases, or turn to illegal fan-subs, and even then it's not a guarantee if a US distributor gets the rights to dub/sub it. Now? nearly anything Japan puts out is available legally with ease, even for free in a lot of cases.

I don't think we'll see another DBZ phenomenon anytime soon, but I think we're well past the "Anime is dying" mantra that was so present throughout the late 2000s, and are now in a more stable market.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

"Better" is a relative term.

I mean, there's certainly more, but most of it is boring, same-y cotton candy, faux-deep "deconstructions", losers getting stuck in another world, or edgy junk that's trying too hard. And not in the fun "Reaper from Overwatch" sort of way.

 

[themistermanguy]

"Better" is a relative term.

I mean, there's certainly more, but most of it is boring, same-y cotton candy, faux-deep "deconstructions", losers getting stuck in another world, or edgy junk that's trying too hard. And not in the fun "Reaper from Overwatch" sort of way.

Anime has always had generic crap, even back in the early days, when the distributors tried to sell it as some hardcore "Manly" alternative to cartoons. We simply remember the %10 that's good in every generation, and forget most of the rest (Sturgeons Law). Anime is really no different to any other form of entertainment in that regard, you get good stuff, and a lot of crap as well.

Besides I'm more so referring to commercial popularity in the US, not actual quality. We're better off in this era of Anime than what we had in the late-2000s and early 2010s I'd say.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'd have to see some actual numbers, but it most certainly has a more solid foothold now than it ever did. I remember back in the day seeing any sort of anime related add anywhere was an oddity, now they're everywhere.

Anime has always had generic crap, even back in the early days, when the distributors tried to sell it as some hardcore "Manly" alternative to cartoons. We simply remember the %10 that's good in every generation, and forget most of the rest (Sturgeons Law).

Yeah, but back then it actually tried to do some interesting things, push the boundries of animation and whatnot. The days we got movies like Akira and Ghost in the Shell, or heck, even Steamboy and Metropolis are long gone. Anime today is the most complacent it's ever been.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Anime has always had generic crap, even back in the early days, when the distributors tried to sell it as some hardcore "Manly" alternative to cartoons. We simply remember the %10 that's good in every generation, and forget most of the rest (Sturgeons Law). Anime is really no different to any other form of entertainment in that regard, you get good stuff, and a lot of crap as well.

Besides I'm more so referring to commercial popularity in the US, not actual quality. We're better off in this era of Anime than what we had in the late-2000s and early 2010s I'd say.

I'm well acquainted with Sturgeon's law. Back in the day, most of the 90% bad never filtered over into the States because it wasn't financially viable. These days, we'd get the other 18 garbage Fantasy shows to go along with Slayers or Lodoss.

That's not "better". Which is why, unless a show is getting hyped by somebody I respect, I don't watch anything newer that a decade old. Filters out the unremarkable. You've got no idea how much I miss the days of shows having recognizable art styles, casual transhumanism, and/or a lack of fan service shots. Like, I'm certain I saw more casual nipples back in the day, but it never felt as sleazy.

EDIT: or adults. Goddamnit, I miss adult protagonists in anime.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

It's bigger, meaning there is more of everything, more genuinely good shows that would never have gone outside Japan 20 years ago, but the trade-off is also more trash that would never have made it across either. It's also easier to find something that appeals to you rather than having to accept only popular mainstream shows popular enough to get exported

 

[CaitSeith]

If by "Western" you mean American, yes. For decades, countries in Latin America were ahead of USA in the anime market (heck! Anime was aired in free-to-air TV in the 80's), because USA TV networks didn't want to air anime at all.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Western animation has always been better than anime, though.

Even in the so called 'dreaded 90s' ...

The Maxx, Aeon Flux, early Simpsons, X-Men ...

And it's been going strength to strength since the turn of the 21st century. I would take the worst MLP episodes over the best Neon Genesis Evangelion garbage. I like shows like Spice and Wolf, Ergo Proxy, and Lain ... but the problem is that it's been eclipsed by the 'Animation Silver Age' of Western markets.

Which makes sense, Western animation scene is far larger now than Eastern animation. It's far more experimental, and Western animation has clued into the secret of making it all ages accessible and interesting.

Adventure Time did philosophy better than NGE ever could even pretend to.

There is also the solid fact that anime isn't actually made for the Japanese. Japanese don't consume it all that much. Anime is purposefully cheap in order to capitalize off Western consumption rather than Eastern markets just in case it fails to find purchase in the West.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Western animation has always been better than anime, though.

Even in the so called 'dreaded 90s' ...

The Maxx, Aeon Flux, early Simpsons, X-Men

Uhm what?


Now I kinda like The Maxx and X-Men, but how are these top quality shows, better than pretty much any anime made in the 90's? That's not even mentioning that anime presented a very different way of telling stories and presenting visuals, hence why a lot of these movies and shows gained the status they did. There was nothing like Akira and Ghost in the Shell, Neon Genesis Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop in Western animation, and there still isn't.

It knocked the doors off what we in the west previously thought animation was capable off or should be labeled as.

Which makes sense, Western animation scene is far larger now than Eastern animation. It's far more experimental, and Western animation has clued into the secret of making it all ages accessible and interesting.

How is it more experimental? It might've been with Adventure Time, but now every damn show is aping that style. All animated shows look like Steven Universe and all animated movies look like Pixar. Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse is the first animated movie in years to have some sort of unique visual flair.

There is also the solid fact that anime isn't actually made for the Japanese. Japanese don't consume it all that much. Anime is purposefully cheap in order to capitalize off Western consumption rather than Eastern markets just in case it fails to find purchase in the West.

That's far from a solid fact.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Uhm what?


Now I kinda like The Maxx and X-Men, but how are these top quality shows, better than pretty much any anime made in the 90's? That's not even mentioning that anime presented a very different way of telling stories and presenting visuals, hence why a lot of these movies and shows gained the status they did. There was nothing like Akira and Ghost in the Shell, Neon Genesis Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop in Western animation, and there still isn't.

For starters, Akira was the 80s... and Ghost in the Shell is garbage compared to the movie universe Patlabor. And I agree, Eastern animation was great in the 80s and 90s, but even in the 90s pretending like Western animation wasn't riding an 'auteur high' that blossomed into the 21st century is ignoring what was happening at the time. Even things like Futurama.

Like A Scanner Darkly in 2006...

It knocked the doors off what we in the west previously thought animation was capable off or should be labeled as.

Really? How? See even in the 90s and 80s Western animation was still more experimental than the noseless wonder looks of Eastern animation that arose simply because of how cheap it was to animate. The reason why anime does the chibi and sudden cut screen animation with excessive expressionist center framed cut shots is precisely because it's cheap.

Anime has always suffered from a lack of long takes (where stuff actually happens, not just gormless protagonist starring off center to the hypothetical camera) ... kind of like why Fury Road seems more energetic than The Road Warrior and I have to remind people that Fury Road has an average of 25 cuts per minute as opposed to Mad Max 2 actually having long takes for many action scenes and why it's technically more impressive than anything in Fury Road.

Cowboy Bebop is no different. Trigun is no different. What is surprisingly different is Spice and Wolf and why I actually pointed it out specifically as being more 'lovingly crafted' than Cowboy Bebop.

How is it more experimental? It might've been with Adventure Time, but now every damn show is aping that style. All animated shows look like Steven Universe and all animated movies look like Pixar. Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse is the first animated movie in years to have some sort of unique visual flair.

How is it not? Archer (at least the first three seasons) is better than almost anything out of commercial tv Eastern animation. Not only its look, but how actually expressive the faces are. Talking face shapes, eye movements, illness rendition, blood effects ....

Plus, you know ... it also doesn't help that Western animation is actually generally good... and requires a certain level of vetting and polish to pass commercial tv standards. It also helps that My Little Pony with flash animation looks better than pretty much anything out of commercial animation out of Japan.

Precisely because, you know ... standards...

That's far from a solid fact.

To be fair, I haven't lived in Japan in a long time ... but you do know that the Japanese themselves consume less anime back in the early 2000s did than Western audiences did of things like The Simpsons, right?

 

[Casual Shinji]

It knocked the doors off what we in the west previously thought animation was capable off or should be labeled as.

Really? How? See even in the 90s and 80s Western animation was still more experimental than the noseless wonder looks of Eastern animation that arose simply because of how cheap it was to animate. The reason why anime does the chibi and sudden cut screen animation with excessive expressionist center framed cut shots is precisely because it's cheap.

Anime has always suffered from a lack of long takes (where stuff actually happens, not just gormless protagonist starring off center to the hypothetical camera) ... kind of like why Fury Road seems more energetic than The Road Warrior and I have to remind people that Fury Road has an average of 25 cuts per minute as opposed to Mad Max 2 actually having long takes for many action scenes and why it's technically more impressive than anything in Fury Road.

Cowboy Bebop is no different. Trigun is no different. What is surprisingly different is Spice and Wolf and why I actually pointed it out specifically as being more 'lovingly crafted' than Cowboy Bebop.

First of all, all (traditional) animation suffers from a lack of long takes, if we're talking Goodfellas-like long takes. Secondly, if you think movies like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and Memories were cheap to animate, you're in for a big surprise.

And you keep saying experimental, but what exactly are you even talking about? You can name-drop obscure things like A Scanner Darkly, but anime has equal amounts of weird, artsy projects.


But to get back to what I actually meant, Akira was unlike anything the west had ever seen in animation. It was completely different from what Disney or any other western animation studio was doing. It along with Ghibli presented the viewer with shots and compositions Disney never bothered with. Like 360 degree pans around a character, or actually hand animating parts of the scenery so the camera could move dynamically through it.


And how is Spice and Wolf more lovingly crafted than Bebop? Unless it's just a case of you liking the show better.

How is it more experimental? It might've been with Adventure Time, but now every damn show is aping that style. All animated shows look like Steven Universe and all animated movies look like Pixar. Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse is the first animated movie in years to have some sort of unique visual flair.

How is it not? Archer (at least the first three seasons) is better than almost anything out of commercial tv Eastern animation. Not only its look, but how actually expressive the faces are. Talking face shapes, eye movements, illness rendition, blood effects ....

Or you pulling my chain here? The whole hook of Archer's visuals is that it looks stiff and awkward, with the characters having blank faces -- it's where the visual comedy comes from. And ignoring that, it's just another snarky prime time cartoon show with shock humor. Hardly what I would call bold and experimental.

That's far from a solid fact.

To be fair, I haven't lived in Japan in a long time ... but you do know that the Japanese themselves consume less anime back in the early 2000s did than Western audiences did of things like The Simpsons, right?

That doesn't mean it's made specifically for the West. Most of these shows are based on comics primarily geared toward the Japanese market, or at least, what the Japanese market is into. Yes, ofcourse they make anime now with the intent of selling it to a western audience as well, since there's undoubtedly going to be a larger anime fanbase there than in Japan due to simple numbers. Anime is geared toward geeks, and not specifically western geeks. Though you can still make the claim it's primarily aimed toward Japan, since most if not all anime make their profits off of merchandise, like figurines and body pillows, which are still a lot more prolific in Japan.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

First of all, all (traditional) animation suffers from a lack of long takes, if we're talking Goodfellas-like long takes. Secondly, if you think movies like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and Memories were cheap to animate, you're in for a big surprise.

For starters ... no. I didn't say that. Secondly, Akira was 80s.

And you keep saying experimental, but what exactly are you even talking about? You can name-drop obscure things like A Scanner Darkly, but anime has equal amounts of weird, artsy projects.

By experimental mostly technological innovation. Also stylistically. Like, say, Wallace and Gromit.

But to get back to what I actually meant, Akira was unlike anything the west had ever seen in animation.

Yeah, Akira was great ... whoop dee doo ... it was also precisely 30 years ago. I mean holy shit, I was 4 years old when it released. That's like a third of a century ago. Even then I would argue that it was merely a case of creative direction and control that was also indicative of why Patlabor movie universe stuff was so good, but why they can't make anything Patlabor good again.

It was completely different from what Disney or any other western animation studio was doing.

Seriously? Christ, Where the Wind Blows? Watership Down? ... I mean Akira was good, but Jesus ... it wasn't that good. Hell Patlabor movies (at least the first two) were better.

And how is Spice and Wolf more lovingly crafted than Bebop? Unless it's just a case of you liking the show better.

Shot direction, story, character development. They did more with less money.

Or you pulling my chain here? The whole hook of Archer's visuals is that it looks stiff and awkward, with the characters having blank faces -- it's where the visual comedy comes from. And ignoring that, it's just another snarky prime time cartoon show with shock humor. Hardly what I would call bold and experimental.

True enough ... but it was just an example of what Western studios were doing with prime time animation television. Whereas when living in Japan, you got none of it.

That doesn't mean it's made specifically for the West. Most of these shows are based on comics primarily geared toward the Japanese market, or at least, what the Japanese market is into. Yes, ofcourse they make anime now with the intent of selling it to a western audience as well, since there's undoubtedly going to be a larger anime fanbase there than in Japan due to simple numbers. Anime is geared toward geeks, and not specifically western geeks. Though you can still make the claim it's primarily aimed toward Japan, since most if not all anime make their profits off of merchandise, like figurines and body pillows, which are still a lot more prolific in Japan.

Yeah ... but do you know what's bigger than any specific anime? My Little Pony. Seriously, dubbed in over 40 languages and is specifically made for toy sales. Also, yeah ... like for a long time it was weaboos propping up the Japanese anime scene. The funny thing is that most Japanese kind of dislike most of the trash that is released. In fact, Otaku culture is kind of like ... yeah, you know the stereotype of nerds never getting married and being incels all their life but like ... not really? Just the particularly disgusting people? Like seriously, if you're having a hard time getting laid the first step is showering, getting a decent outfit together and just going out, you know?

Well ... with the Japanese, anti-social stuff like Otaku culture is a few degrees treated more pathetic than simply incel nonsense in the West.

Which was the weird thing I found ... but kind of makes sense.

Like one of the big reasons why they don't actually revolutionarily change many character designs or experiment with formulas is precisely because weaboos and otakus are traditionally more likely to mindlessly fling money at it merchandising.

And hey, I get it ... I've spent at least $6,000 on MLP stuff ... though you know, that's mostly getting specific comic covers I really, really like. The difference is that's just one franchise. I mean you tap that weaboo mine and it's a lifetime of incremental expenditures.

 

[Casual Shinji]

First of all, all (traditional) animation suffers from a lack of long takes, if we're talking Goodfellas-like long takes. Secondly, if you think movies like Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and Memories were cheap to animate, you're in for a big surprise.

For starters ... no. I didn't say that. Secondly, Akira was 80s.

You specifically stated that 90's and 80's western animation was more experimental than the noseless wonder looks of anime that arose because it was cheap to animate.

But to get back to what I actually meant, Akira was unlike anything the west had ever seen in animation.

Yeah, Akira was great ... whoop dee doo ... it was also precisely 30 years ago. I mean holy shit, I was 4 years old when it released. That's like a third of a century ago. Even then I would argue that it was merely a case of creative direction and control that was also indicative of why Patlabor movie universe stuff was so good, but why they can't make anything Patlabor good again.

I'm not arguing any of that. I claimed Akira introduced western audiences to a type of animated movie they'd never experienced before, which you replied questionably to, saying how it's all cheap (and noseless) compared to the experimental west.

It was completely different from what Disney or any other western animation studio was doing.

Seriously? Christ, Where the Wind Blows? Watership Down? ... I mean Akira was good, but Jesus ... it wasn't that good. Hell Patlabor movies (at least the first two) were better.

I'm not arguing quality or subjective opinions, I'm saying it had a huge impact because of how comparatively different it was. The Simpsons' first few seasons aren't exactly that much to look at now either, but that doesn't change how different and new it felt at the time compared to its contemporaries.

And how is Spice and Wolf more lovingly crafted than Bebop? Unless it's just a case of you liking the show better.

Shot direction, story, character development. They did more with less money.

So it is simple preference. Fine.

Or you pulling my chain here? The whole hook of Archer's visuals is that it looks stiff and awkward, with the characters having blank faces -- it's where the visual comedy comes from. And ignoring that, it's just another snarky prime time cartoon show with shock humor. Hardly what I would call bold and experimental.

True enough ... but it was just an example of what Western studios were doing with prime time animation television. Whereas when living in Japan, you got none of it.

I wouldn't know what Japan airs at prime time, but Archer is walking the path many other cartoon shows before it did or still do. It's business as usual.

It also helps that My Little Pony with flash animation looks better than pretty much anything out of commercial animation out of Japan.

*pfft* WHAT?! Now I KNOW you're trolling me, because that's the most ridiculous fucking statement I've heard all year. Saying that type of flash animation looks good is already questionable, but saying it looks better than pretty much anything animated from Japan... Yeesh. That's like saying Bob's Burgers looks better than Beauty and the Beast.

 

[twistedmic]

Yeah ... but do you know what's bigger than any specific anime? My Little Pony. Seriously, dubbed in over 40 languages and is specifically made for toy sales.

My Little Pony, both original and FiM may have been dubbed into dozens of languages, but there is no possible way that you can say that they have/will influence any part of animation Eastern or Western.
Akira, Cowboy BeBop and, arguably, Neon Genesis Evangelion are/were highly influential works of art. Similar to how Blade Runner and The Matrix influenced sci-fi movies, or how the first Friday the Thirteenth influenced slasher flicks and Night of the Living Dead influenced zombie/horror movies.
Also, a lot of people watching something doesn't necessarily make it good or better than a less-watched show. More people watched Avatar than watched Gangs of New York (based on boxofficemojo.com numbers) but that doesn't make the first one better than the second.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

snip

Like many shows before and after it, MLP rides the wave of children's programming that uses the same cheapo-looking flash animation you see in pop up ads on the internet and has influenced precisely nothing outside of toys and no one outside its fandom. You're living from hand to mouth if you think 80s/90s anime has had less of an influence on the world than that.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

You specifically stated that 90's and 80's western animation was more experimental than the noseless wonder looks of anime that arose because it was cheap to animate.

No ... I said 90s. You brought up Akira, and I made the argument Western animation was still doing more things than Eastern in the 80s.

I'm not arguing any of that. I claimed Akira introduced western audiences to a type of animated movie they'd never experienced before, which you replied questionably to, saying how it's all cheap (and noseless) compared to the experimental west.

No, I'm not saying it's all cheap. I'm saying it is cheap. An outlier does not an argument make. The reason why anime looks as it does is because 90% Of the time it's simply the cheapest possible way to render humans in it.

I'm not arguing quality or subjective opinions, I'm saying it had a huge impact because of how comparatively different it was. The Simpsons' first few seasons aren't exactly that much to look at now either, but that doesn't change how different and new it felt at the time compared to its contemporaries.

Precisely, and yet the Simpsons is indicative of what the West was doing right in managing to tap all ages entertainment in animation that would follow on to much larger market shares worldwide later on.

So it is simple preference. Fine.

All of this is subjective.

I wouldn't know what Japan airs at prime time, but Archer is walking the path many other cartoon shows before it did or still do. It's business as usual.

And? Relevance to the argument?

*pfft* WHAT?! Now I KNOW you're trolling me, because that's the most ridiculous fucking statement I've heard all year.

How? It's infinitely more charming than the common cut shot dreck that gets pumped out on a daily basis out of animation studios in Japan.

Saying that type of flash animation looks good is already questionable, but saying it looks better than pretty much anything animated from Japan... Yeesh.

Because it does ... 90% Of the Japanese animation industry is pure garbage.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

My Little Pony, both original and FiM may have been dubbed into dozens of languages, but there is no possible way that you can say that they have/will influence any part of animation Eastern or Western.
Akira, Cowboy BeBop and, arguably, Neon Genesis Evangelion are/were highly influential works of art. Similar to how Blade Runner and The Matrix influenced sci-fi movies, or how the first Friday the Thirteenth influenced slasher flicks and Night of the Living Dead influenced zombie/horror movies.
Also, a lot of people watching something doesn't necessarily make it good or better than a less-watched show. More people watched Avatar than watched Gangs of New York (based on boxofficemojo.com numbers) but that doesn't make the first one better than the second.

Wait, does it need to? I'm just saying it's better. NGE is a garbage fire ... about the only way it could influence the industry is for the worse. Tell me ... what exactly has something like Cowboy Bebop actually influenced? Because people throw around this term as if it means something on its own without actually considering multiple creative examples that likely did more. Like, just some basic concepts.

 

[twistedmic]

Wait, does it need to? I'm just saying it's better. NGE is a garbage fire ... about the only way it could influence the industry is for the worst. Tell me ... what exactly has Cowboy Bebop actually influenced? Because people throw around this term as if it means something on its own without actually considering multiple creative examples that likely did more.

On the aspect of the quality of Evangelion I'll call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that. On the influence angle, character archetypes (if that's the right word), visually and personality-wise) have clearly been inspired by Evangelion (look how many Asuka and Rei look-a-likes are out there). And from the little bit of pre-Eva anime that I've seen, very little of it was a deconstruction of the 'Giant Robot' genre and most of them had their main characters happily going off to war with little to no emotional or psychological trauma or baggage.
As for Cowboy BeBop influenced visual styles (both in anime and live action films) as well as the usage of music and blending of musical genres.

If you watch either series and find that you've seen similar themes, shots and ideas done dozens of other times realize that Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop were more than likely the originators.
Take the bullet-time scenes from The Matrix for example, it's been parodied and redone so often that it is now little more than a visual gimmick (like lens flares) but it was amazing and innovative the first time it was ever seen.
Look at all of the themes, characters and visual styles that look similar to Blade Runner or Star Wars.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

On the aspect of the quality of Evangelion I'll call it a difference of opinion and leave it at that. On the influence angle, character archetypes (if that's the right word), visually and personality-wise) have clearly been inspired by Evangelion (look how many Asuka and Rei look-a-likes are out there). And from the little bit of pre-Eva anime that I've seen, very little of it was a deconstruction of the 'Giant Robot' genre and most of them had their main characters happily going off to war with little to no emotional or psychological trauma or baggage.

Clearly not, however. Other shows have done the horror of war, even from the perspective of children, better than Evangelion ever did so. Moreover it's not a deconstruction of anything. Patlabor is still hands down my favourite mecha franchise and arguably did concepts and strife and its political imagery of things like military occupation better than Evangelion could even dream of doing. Moreover, none of it actually make sense.

As for Cowboy BeBop influenced visual styles (both in anime and live action films) as well as the usage of music and blending of musical genres.

Such as? Like one live action film. It's been like 20 years since it's been released.

If you watch either series and find that you've seen similar themes, shots and ideas done dozens of other times realize that Evangelion and Cowboy Bebop were more than likely the originators.

Such as? Patlabor movies gave us a hard sci-fi pseudo-dystopian mecha better than Evangelion. Evangelion has more tropes in it than not, even right down to the inexplicably young highschool messiah. IT purposefully obfuscates when it should elabourate and illustrate ... and after watching the tv show, I have the sneaking the creators didn't even know how to answer basic questions surrounding the premise that they merely fostered mystique as a means of not having to worry about it.

The first Patlabor movie does religion better than Evangelion, as well as concepts of the nature of sacrifice and biblical allegory, for instance. And it does it better precisely because it removes layers of its own mystique and psychology in a structured way. And it didn't have 11 hours to do it. It had 100 minutes.

Take the bullet-time scenes from The Matrix for example, it's been parodied and redone so often that it is now little more than a visual gimmick (like lens flares) but it was amazing and innovative the first time it was ever seen.
Look at all of the themes, characters and visual styles that look similar to Blade Runner or Star Wars.

Both Blade Runner and Star Wars pre-exist either of these shows by almost 20 years in some cases. Total Recall has more to say than Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop ever did.

 

[Hawki]

Because it does ... 90% Of the Japanese animation industry is pure garbage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

Both Blade Runner and Star Wars pre-exist either of these shows by almost 20 years in some cases. Total Recall has more to say than Evangelion or Cowboy Bebop ever did.

Um...

Okay, Cowboy Bebop isn't actually saying much, but there's a heavy theme of nihilism running through it. In contrast, what exactly is Total Recall saying? That Arnie might have dreamt the whole thing, and none of the film after going to Recall might be real? Nice plot twist, but it's hardly a theme.