James Bond cannot be genderbent

[rosac]

I read the "Who should play James Bond next" thread and found that several people wanted James Bond to be genderbent to either Jane Bond or Jamie Bond. Rather than de-rail that thread, I figured I should start a seperate one.

James Bond cannot be genderbent.

James Bond being a British manly man doing man things is a huge part of a character. He's the ultimate male fantasy who Kicks badguys asses, blows shit up, drives ridiculous cars, is ripped/incredibly good looking, witty, gets all the girls he wants and, at the end of the day, drinks expensive drinks, wears the best clothes etc etc. Can women do this? Of course.

but to change Bonds gender would be to warp the character beyond comprehension in my eyes, and is also slightly pointless. If you would like a superspy badass female character, I have no doubt there are several about (looking at Black Widow for starters) that could be adapted into their own film to box office, critical and public acclaim, whereas genderbending Bond would more than likely result in outcry (such as my own).

Maybe I am just stuck in the mud and traditionalist on this point, but I don't believe that genderbending for the sake of genderbending is the right move for equality and diversity. Good female characters should not be "male characters with tits".

Also, flameshield up.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

But what exactly makes a "Good female" character?
Why would a female character who acts like "a British manly man doing man things" be a bad character?

Why do we need to change the character's defining traits (in the case of James Bond, he shoots things, has sex a lot and seems to be unable to maintain a steady relationship), in order for the character to be female? A women is perfectly capable of doing every single one of these things I've listed.
[footnote](Note: OP did not state this but it's something I see crop up a lot on the genderbent Bond discussions)[/footnote]

I don't get what the issue is with female characters who "Are basically a man with tits" so what if she exhibits characteristics that are typically associated with how men are viewed to act. People act according to their own personalities.

If you don't think James Bond should be genderbent because it's lazy and Hollywood could use some new material, fine, but I don't understand why this character trope must be exclusively male.

 

[Parasondox]

Oh, I think you will need a bigger flame shield.

Don't knock something because the concept is viewed by you as bad but wait until more of the idea has developed and a final product is produced before knocking it. If the right people are involved with the right mind and ideas, then it could work.

 

[Breakdown]

I don't get why people want existing characters to be genderbent. It seems really lazy and cynical, like an admission that a female character will only work by appropriating the popularity and success of an existing male character.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Well, you can't gender bend him without changing a lot about his "character". As you said, James Bond is all about appealing to the male demographic, with beautiful women, slick cars, neat gadgets, shooting dudes, and traveling. Not that there aren't any women who are into this, but it's probably sigficantly less than men.

I don't know what would be considered a female fantasy version of the character though, since I have little knowledge of what women are into. Maybe something to do with shoes and chocolate.

 

[Phasmal]

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

Perhaps it's just me, but I always found Bond a little silly, and kinda boring.

And I don't particularly think it would change much to gender-swap Bond. Yeah, the 'man-with-boobs' thing is a trope, but there's tons of tropes, and there are tons of women who act in ways that society sees as 'masculine'. I've been compared to a man with boobs before.

You probably don't need to freak out, because they probably won't gender-swap Bond, but if they did I'd at least be inclined to check out the movie to see where they were going with it.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Honestly, I think the big problem is that the 'male' traits that are usually cited as being a core aspect to Bond are, well... not great. They either easily translate over to being a female (Sexually promiscuous, badass, spy behavior), or are things from another era that are kind of creepy and I wouldn't mind losing (Exactly who and how that sexual promiscuous behavior happens).

That being said, I'm not a huge fan of gender bending, but my complaints usually are more along the line of 'Why? Can't we do better then gender bending? Kind of lazy.'

Sometimes it works fine, though.

​

 

[Saelune]

Said it before, and shall persist in saying so: Established characters shouldn't be changed. Want a female James Bond? Make a new character. Want a black human torch? Make a new character. Want a female muslim super hero, make a new damn character. (Ok that one technically is, but she stil relies on a different characters fame instead of her own merits)

Why must we be "progressive" by altering characters? A woman spy cant stand on her own name she needs to be "Bond"? A black hero isn't worth it unless its a popular white one? Im sure if we turned a black hero white people would call it racist, or a female character into a man would be sexist, would it not?

Make your own damn interesting minority character and leaves the ones already made alone. Im not against a horny badass female spy, but not if it involves deviating from who Bond is. Daniel Craig has done enough damage as it is.

 

[Erttheking]

When Phasmal pointed it out, I have to agree and tilt my head. Ultimate male power fantasy? Uh, no thanks. I don't consider fucking the lesbian out of someone to be a fantasy. Bond is a pretty sexist character, of course he is, he's from the 60s.

Hell, Kenshiro is a bit closer to the ultimate male power fantasy in my book, considering he can kick ass but is more about protecting the innocent and not being afraid to cry.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

Wasn't there already a movie that was basically a female version of James Bond? I remember they originally intended to use a dude in the main roll and even wrote it that way, but decided to put an actress in it.

What I'm saying is, why not franchise that instead of hijacking something else?

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

When Phasmal pointed it out, I have to agree and tilt my head. Ultimate male power fantasy? Uh, no thanks. I don't consider fucking the lesbian out of someone to be a fantasy. Bond is a pretty sexist character, of course he is, he's from the 60s.

So the fact that he's suave, always cool headed, great with ladies, can kick ass and look good doing it, has the most badass cars, tours the world while saving it on a regular basis, DOESN'T strike you as a male power fantasy? Freaking a, I don't even LIKE Bond movies and even I can see the appeal of being him!

Also, king, Fist of The North Star is pretty sexist as well. At the very least one of the morals in that show was that women shouldn't be fighting when there's men to do it. It's not fucking the lesbian out of someone, but it's still pretty bad by our standards.

 

[Phasmal]

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

When Phasmal pointed it out, I have to agree and tilt my head. Ultimate male power fantasy? Uh, no thanks. I don't consider fucking the lesbian out of someone to be a fantasy. Bond is a pretty sexist character, of course he is, he's from the 60s.

So the fact that he's suave, always cool headed, great with ladies, can kick ass and look good doing it, has the most badass cars, tours the world while saving it on a regular basis, DOESN'T strike you as a male power fantasy? Freaking a, I don't even LIKE Bond movies and even I can see the appeal of being him!

Also, king, Fist of The North Star is pretty sexist as well. At the very least one of the morals in that show was that women shouldn't be fighting when there's men to do it. It's not fucking the lesbian out of someone, but it's still pretty bad by our standards.

Bolded for your convenience.

I'm sure there are dudes who want to be Bond. I just don't buy him as the 'ultimate' male fantasy, as, like I said, he comes off as kind of hard to take seriously.
To be honest, though I have limited Bond-experience, his personality always fell a little flat to me. It's not like he's great with ladies because he's just so irresistible and awesome, to me it always came across as he's great with ladies because the writer wanted him to be. Seemed a little forced.

But anyway, yeah. Not an ultimate fantasy in my books. Guys can imagine better than Bond.

And also cars are boring.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

When Phasmal pointed it out, I have to agree and tilt my head. Ultimate male power fantasy? Uh, no thanks. I don't consider fucking the lesbian out of someone to be a fantasy. Bond is a pretty sexist character, of course he is, he's from the 60s.

So the fact that he's suave, always cool headed, great with ladies, can kick ass and look good doing it, has the most badass cars, tours the world while saving it on a regular basis, DOESN'T strike you as a male power fantasy? Freaking a, I don't even LIKE Bond movies and even I can see the appeal of being him!

Also, king, Fist of The North Star is pretty sexist as well. At the very least one of the morals in that show was that women shouldn't be fighting when there's men to do it. It's not fucking the lesbian out of someone, but it's still pretty bad by our standards.

Bolded for your convenience.

I'm sure there are dudes who want to be Bond. I just don't buy him as the 'ultimate' male fantasy, as, like I said, he comes off as kind of hard to take seriously.
To be honest, though I have limited Bond-experience, his personality always fell a little flat to me. It's not like he's great with ladies because he's just so irresistible and awesome, to me it always came across as he's great with ladies because the writer wanted him to be. Seemed a little forced.

But anyway, yeah. Not an ultimate fantasy in my books. Guys can imagine better than Bond.

And also cars are boring.

Bond is the straight man of the story -The Batman of spies, if you will. While he's mildly interesting, his purpose is mostly to move through the far more colorful story of the antagonist.

This is probably why I'm not massively impressed by the newer Bonds. While they are shot well, and have great music, and Daniel Craig does a good job, the villains have been fairly boring, and Bond just has a really hard time standing on his own.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

...You can genderbent anything.

Literally all that's required is swapping the gender of the character.

It doesn't change anything. it certainly wouldn't turn Bond into some feminist character. It just becomes a version of the character thats like "It's everything you loved about James Bond, but now he is a she, and she is pretty and you can imagine fucking her and it won't be gay! Not that there is anything wrong with gay fantasy you yourself just aren't into that, but you are waaayyyy into James Bond!"

And I'm for doing, just because. Fuck it. Why not? Are we really going to stand here and say James Bond is something so sacred it can't be fucked around with and toyed with?

Of course, I'm looking at this from an artistic lens. From a business lens, could be a different story.

 

[Parasondox]

And also cars are boring.

You have just declared WAR with me! Yeah, some cars are boring. Majority everyday cars are boring. The new cars of today are built with so much tech that they just have no flare or passion to them. Just a science project. Wait, I'm meant to be defending cars here. But really, an Aston Martin is beautiful. An old rally car is just gorgeous and the vintage cars of yesteryear are beyond orgasmic. I can just look at them for hours, every curvy and detail put towards them before computers. Just metal, oil, old time engineering and the engine. Yeah we don't need those big things anymore but we shouldn't forget the alphas and betas of engines just generated such power and heart.

However, if cars aren't your thing, go for it. We all have our hobbies and interest that keeps us going. Always enjoy the ones you love and don't let anyone say you shouldn't and tell you that they are stupid. Because those interest aren't.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

Perhaps it's just me, but I always found Bond a little silly, and kinda boring.

I think that's exactly why he's seen as the ultimate male fantasy, as there's little else to him but to appeal to a broad male demograpic. He's literally just collection of 'this is what dudes like'. He's boring and silly because he's all fantasy.

 

[Breakdown]

I hear quite a lot that James Bond is 'the ultimate male fantasy', and I'm just... like... really?
I mean, Bond's fine and all, but ultimate fantasy?

Perhaps it's just me, but I always found Bond a little silly, and kinda boring.

I think that's exactly why he's seen as the ultimate male fantasy, as there's little else to him but to appeal to a broad male demograpic. He's literally just collection of 'this is what dudes like'. He's boring and silly because he's all fantasy.

James Bond as a character is intentionally boring. Ian Fleming picked the name James Bond because it was the most boring name he could come up with.

 

[mduncan50]

I love that it can be played by white men that look completely different, have different accents, be from different countries, and act completely different, but the fact that it may be played by someone of a different skin color or someone that has a vagina and it's just inconceivable.