Lance Armstrong to be stripped of medals

[shadowstriker86]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cycling/story/us-anti-doping-agency-will-ban-lance-armstrong-for-life-strip-tour-de-france-titles-082312

Honestly this kind of thing just irritates me, guy works his ass off to be one of the top athletes on the planet, scores medals, inspires people to better themselves, gives hope to people who have cancer, has to sacrifice a nut cause of his own cancer, spends years passing drug tests and they still wanna take away his medals. I dunno, what do you all think?

 

[Erja_Perttu]

Well, if he cheated, he cheated. If you don't win fairly you shouldn't win at all.

It's too bad he had cancer and all, but I've had a cold recently, that doesn't mean I can win the marathon on a moped.

 

[Thaluikhain]

He cheated, knowing that if he got caught cheating he'd get his medals taken away.

He got caught cheating, so...

No sympathy from me.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

It's an absolute travesty if he is in fact innocent, and weird that he would be able to pass all the necessary rigorous drug testing to compete if he was taking drugs, but then illegal athletic drugs are incredibly advanced and ridiculous amounts of money is spent on making them undetectable.

Who knows, maybe he's guilty, maybe he's innocent, maybe all the people involved in charging him will meet with swift, violent, bicycle related deaths like the Tutankhamen exploration team?

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

He cheated, knowing that if he got caught cheating he'd get his medals taken away.

He got caught cheating, so...

No sympathy from me.

If he hasnt failed a single drug test what evidence do they have to convict? The entire thing is a complete failure of justice.

Unless anyone can come forward with clear scientific evidence proving he cheated or doped or with a clear undeniable proof he has every right to live his life normally and not have to face baseless accusations.

I really wanted to be on his side, but his withdrawal from arbitration - the first point at which evidence would be put on the table - makes me think maybe he has something to hide. Why wouldn't you want the evidence on the table if you thought it flimsy? Even if you lost, then the public would know that it was flimsy.

Im inclined to believe him. Look at his side, for years and years hes faced endless accusations of doping with zero evidence after passing every drug test flawlessly every time. And now its finally been taken to court, sure he has the money but hes only human, does he have the patience? I could make baseless accusations at everyone but unless i have proof no one HAS to defend themselves to prove themselves innocent.

For example i could accuse you of committing murder yesterday. Prove you didn't or it looks like youre a murderer. Yep. Failure to prove innocence of ANY accusation doesnt imply the victim is guilty at all if the accusation has no proof.

 

[Guffe]

I hate it when big names like this go and try screwing the system.
They should be some of the biggest inspirations to people and then they do stuff like this.
In every sport, keep it fair guys!
As said earlier already in this thread; cheating = away with medals, those are the rules.

Also he's retired, this is a pretty ass hat move from the doping agency.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Also he's retired, this is a pretty ass hat move from the doping agency.

They keep blood samples in storage, waiting for new tests to be developed. I like that, you might be able to fool the tests today, but who knows what tests they'll have tomorrow?

Presumably they've got some new tricks...might be seeing a few others lose medals this way.

 

[Stu35]

He cheated, knowing that if he got caught cheating he'd get his medals taken away.

He got caught cheating, so...

No sympathy from me.

He did not, in fact, get caught cheating.

He passed every test he ever took.

I, like many, used to believe quite strongly that he must have cheated - how else could he have achieved so much in a sport that is rife with that kind of behaviour (as has been suggested by pretty much every single cyclist who has ever chosen to speak on the subject). However, the fact that he has never actually been caught cheating despite many, many tests, stands out for me.


Now, after years of being the victim of, what as far as I can see, is a witch hunt by the USADA, he's given up on it and decided he has better things to do with his life. Good for him.



Finally, I'll say this - the USADA can strip him of his titles all they want, we all know who won those yellow jerseys (and to be honest, I'm not entirely sure they have the power to take away his Tour De France titles - I thought that power rested with the UCI)

 

[Toasty Virus]

It's bullshit, the guys passed every fucking test they've put him through and still they're hounding him. Arseholes.

He cheated, knowing that if he got caught cheating he'd get his medals taken away.

He got caught cheating, so...

No sympathy from me.

When did he actually get caught cheating?

 

[Vivi22]

He got caught cheating, so...

He wasn't caught cheating since they haven't proven anything yet. They've claimed to have evidence, but this evidence hasn't been examined, nor it's validity proven, by anyone else. He's claiming the arbitration process is itself unfair and he wouldn't get a fair shake. Does it cast some suspicion on him? Certainly. But without the evidence being presented for public scrutiny, the reality is that we'll never know.

Of course, the reality is also that the people accusing him admitted to doping while he passed all of his tests, and it's perfectly understandable that a man may be tired of the accusations and what constantly fighting them mean for his family. If they want to take his refusal to enter arbitration as an admission of guilt, then they should make the samples they're using to accuse him available for independent verification so their validity can be determined. That there's even the option to strip him of his titles without the evidence bearing public scrutiny is kind of absurd.

 

[Schadrach]

So let me get this straight.... He's gone through a ridiculous amount of drug tests that all came up clean every single time... and they still want to declare him guilty? Whatever happened to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing?

Not a court of law, so it doesn't apply. Much like "beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't necessarily apply to things that aren't criminal courts, such as athletic organizations or college disciplinary boards (who in some cases adopt standards as low as "slightly more likely than not").

 

[smithy_2045]

It'd be nice if they'd actually proved he cheated before he was punished.

 

[Zantos]

That's ridiculous. He's been putting up with constant investigation for his entire career, for which they have consistently found nothing, and now his refusal is an admission of guilt. Not, ya know, that the fact he's still alive is a damn miracle and maybe he wants to spend that time somewhere other than a courtroom defending his innocence. Again.

But he's right, doesn't matter what they do people are still going to think of him as a hero and a legend.

 

[Supertegwyn]

All the people who are accusing him have been charged with doping.

Suspicious much?

Maybe the USADA bribed them to testify against Armstrong. Maybe they didn't.

I don't think anyone will be able to tell if he doped or not. Shame about the medals however.

 

[Lionsfan]

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First off, to suggest that anyone in cycling during that time period was clean is just laughable. The whole sport was dirtier than....well dirt itself.

Second, Lance wasn't some guy who passed all his tests with flying colors and raised no suspicion until they started a "witchhunt". Throughout the Tour his watt/kg output was consistent with that of known dopers. He actually did positive, in '99, for a corticosteroid. Next, blood doping by transfusions wouldn't lead to a positive test on the standard piss in a cup test. Epo testing didn't start until 2000 or so, and even then is incredibly hard to catch, since it stays in your body for a few days but the effects last for weeks. In some cases, the stuff he used doesn't even have a way to test for it. He also has blood samples from '09 and '10 that are consistent with Blood Doping.

Lance was going gown and he knew it. Don't kid yourself that he was "weary of fighting" For years his only defense has been that he didn't test positive, but that's only because they didn't have the testing procedures they have now. He's had former teammates and team doctors accusing him of cheating, and not only did he deny it, but he actively tried to crush people who stood out against him, like ruin their lives crush. And right now was the crux of the entire thing, with his legacy on the line. Not in a criminal matter, it's not like Barry Bonds/Roger Clemens where if he's guilty he's going to jail, no this is purely about his legacy and he backs out. Because he's guilty and an open trial would expose pretty much everything he doesn't want exposed. Quitting now, and adding in some contempt for the process, is just a PR move.

Fun Fact, when I say cycling is dirty as dirt, I'm not exaggerating. Here is a list of the Tour De France runner-ups during his streak:

1999 -- Alex Zulle. Admitted doper in Festina affair.
2000 -- Jan Ullrich. Convicted doper, revealed during Operation Puerto scandal. Raced for ultra-dirty Team Telekom.
2001 -- Jan Ullrich.
2002 -- Joseba Beloki. Connected to Operation Puerto investigation.
2003 -- Jan Ullrich.
2004 -- Andreas Kloden. Alleged to use the Freiburg clinic for illegal transfusions (blood doping). Has spent almost his entire career, including 2004, on teams with organized doping programs.
2005 -- Ivan Basso. Convicted doper through Operation Puerto investigation. Has since returned to racing in much less impressive form.

Virtually every person that Lance shared a podium with during his time on the Tour was found guilty of doping. Including the 3 winners before him, and the 2 after him.

Lance did win, I mean they were all doping and he was the best.....but he still doped, and still cheated.

 

[smithy_2045]

First off, to suggest that anyone in cycling during that time period was clean is just laughable. The whole sport was dirtier than....well dirt itself.

Second, Lance wasn't some guy who passed all his tests with flying colors and raised no suspicion until they started a "witchhunt". Throughout the Tour his watt/kg output was consistent with that of known dopers. He actually did positive, in '99, for a corticosteroid. Next, blood doping by transfusions wouldn't lead to a positive test on the standard piss in a cup test. Epo testing didn't start until 2000 or so, and even then is incredibly hard to catch, since it stays in your body for a few days but the effects last for weeks. In some cases, the stuff he used doesn't even have a way to test for it. He also has blood samples from '09 and '10 that are consistent with Blood Doping.

Lance was going gown and he knew it. Don't kid yourself that he was "weary of fighting" For years his only defense has been that he didn't test positive, but that's only because they didn't have the testing procedures they have now. He's had former teammates and team doctors accusing him of cheating, and not only did he deny it, but he actively tried to crush people who stood out against him, like ruin their lives crush. And right now was the crux of the entire thing, with his legacy on the line. Not in a criminal matter, it's not like Barry Bonds/Roger Clemens where if he's guilty he's going to jail, no this is purely about his legacy and he backs out. Because he's guilty and an open trial would expose pretty much everything he doesn't want exposed. Quitting now, and adding in some contempt for the process, is just a PR move.

Fun Fact, when I say cycling is dirty as dirt, I'm not exaggerating. Here is a list of the Tour De France runner-ups during his streak:

1999 -- Alex Zulle. Admitted doper in Festina affair.
2000 -- Jan Ullrich. Convicted doper, revealed during Operation Puerto scandal. Raced for ultra-dirty Team Telekom.
2001 -- Jan Ullrich.
2002 -- Joseba Beloki. Connected to Operation Puerto investigation.
2003 -- Jan Ullrich.
2004 -- Andreas Kloden. Alleged to use the Freiburg clinic for illegal transfusions (blood doping). Has spent almost his entire career, including 2004, on teams with organized doping programs.
2005 -- Ivan Basso. Convicted doper through Operation Puerto investigation. Has since returned to racing in much less impressive form.

Virtually every person that Lance shared a podium with during his time on the Tour was found guilty of doping. Including the 3 winners before him, and the 2 after him.

Lance did win, I mean they were all doping and he was the best.....but he still doped, and still cheated.

Yet there still is insufficient evidence to prove he cheated. Just a whole lot of he probably did so we'll punish him just in case.