Late to the party and dealing with hyped games

[Dalisclock]

OOT came along later and continued the process(3d world, actual vertical levels, some semblance of characterization which is 2 dimensional at best) but in many ways they're similar games(get 3 plot coupons to access master sword, the 2nd world opens up and more complex dungeons become available where specific objects gate progress and are required for bosses). And in both cases, themed dungeons where the item found in dungeon were needed to complete them were present in both(a hell of a lot more then LTTP then any game prior to that).

OoT does use the same template as LttP, but I disagree that LttP has "themed dungeons." It has items that come from dungeons, but there's little to distinguish one dungeon from another in terms of theme or aesthetic.

LTTP has: a forest dungeon, a mountain tower, a lava dungeon, a swamp dungeon(with rising/lowering water levels to proceed), another swamp dungeon, a desert dungeon, an ice dungeon,an undertown dungeon dungeon(the thieves dungeon), hyrule castle and gannons tower.

OOT has : A Forest Dungeon, a tree dungeon, a lava/fire dungeon, a inside whale dungeon, a water dungeon, an ice dungeon, a desert dungeon, a dungeon/torture chamber/tomb under the town dungeon, a mountain dungeon and gannons tower(which used to be hyrule castle).

Aside from the whale dungeon, there's a fair bit of overlap there.

Now, that may seem like a lot of plot points, but if this was following OoT, every pendant would be its own plot point, every maiden would be its own plot point, and there's be numerous other plot points in-between (such as the time travel aspect). That's not even getting into OoT having better characters, better worldbuilding, and better themes. Even if we accept that the characters of OoT are two-dimensional, try comparing the sages to the maidens. In the case of the former, every sage makes an appearance in the child/adult eras, and has a connection with Link to some extent. In contrast, the maidens aren't just lacking in characterization, they're lacking in any names whatsoever.

I agree the sages are more fleshed out and distinct then the maidens, which as you said, are basically plot coupons and don't even have names. I disagree that outsides of the sages the dungeons contribute much to the plot as opposed to being there. There's a bit more implication in the temples(Dark Souls style), especially the Shadow Temple, but the most plot you get is basically meeting each sage, usually when they're going to tackle the temple alone and then bailing them out when they fail to beat the dungeon boss. And then you get the obligatory thanks, here's a medallion and then you're sent on your way. You don't get to chat up the sages in the temple of light and get more hints/worldbuilding(or if you could I never saw it), it's pretty much all by cutscene(which is pretty much how LTTP worked too).

The Time Travel Aspect to a bad future where gannon already won is interesting, but is never really played for what it's worth. What happened in those 7 years Link was Rip Van Winkle sleeping in the Temple? Well, apparently gannon took over the place, made everyone's lives miserable and has been hanging out in his doom fortress ever since. He taunts you once in the forest temple but otherwise waits until Link has more or less done all the hard work before dropping in and taking what he wants(The Triforce, Zelda). Zelda apparently has been living as a Ninja whose big role in the plot is to drop in, give you warp songs, give you a few words and then batman her way out of there, until she takes off the disguise and promptly gets kidnapped.

Sure, it's more then a LTTP but a LTTP also had the plot reason that Gannon was still confined to the Dark World so yeah, you wouldn't bump into him wondering about. Which goes back to the fact that the Dark World in LTTP is functional identical in almost every way to the Adult Link Bad future in OOT(it's a darker/twisted version of the first world, the harder dungeons are there, gannon runs the place, The final battle takes place where Hyrule castle would be). OOT mixes it up a little by only allowing certain equipment to be used in the child/adult eras though never really explains why this limitation is in place.

I will give OOT props for have a much better final boss battle and lead up. While the barrier mini-dungeons are rather meh, the tower ascent itself and confrontation with gannon(both times) is pretty epic.

 

[Squilookle]

I didn't play OoT back in the day simply because I didn't care for RPGs. Having got the cartridge about 2 years ago I started it up and found it enjoyable, especially for a genre I don't play. But then I put it down for a month or two and when I picked it up again I couldn't for the life of me remember what I was up to doing. And being such a classic I refuse to look up a walkthrough. That's my dilemma.

I personally think that games don't age- people do. Generally speaking, if a game was great when it released and you can't see that, that's your problem, not the game's. I'd put GTA 3 up there as a prime example. I played Deus Ex for the first time a few years ago and while it was jarring seeing the graphics of Unreal Tournament mixed with such different aiming mechanics, I saw past that. People who, for example, think Goldeneye or Perfect Dark are impossible to go back to seem to be forgetting that it is they who have lost touch with the games of that time, not the other way around. Personally I still play them not because I'm ignoring the innovations that came later in the genre, but because of the things they still do better than games today.

 

[Dalisclock]

I have dual example that came to mind. A couple years ago I finally got around to playing Final Fantasy 9 and Final Fantasy 10, one right after another

Despite not having played a FF game in years, I jumped into FF9 easily. Despite some flaws, it felt to me like everything a FF game should be. It had the 3D advancements of the PS era 3d games with some of the worldbuilding and sense of adventure of the earlier games, along with a fun, interesting cast of characters(for the most part) and even though the plot kinda gets a bit cray-cray towards the end, it more or less all felt like it clicked together for me. It also felt like it did the blade runner existential plot better then blade runner did(Heresy, I know).

FF10, on the other hand, felt like it lost something. On the surface of it, I liked what they were trying to do. A pilgrimage across the world to stop a huge monster that wrecks the world in cycles, starting thousands of years ago and the big twist that a human sacrifice is required to end the threat each time(and sets the next cycle in motion). The world being a tropical paradise dominated by water was also pretty cool. Sadly, it feels like a lot of it just doesn't work the way it's intended. Tidus comes across as an obnoxious meathead for much of the game and the game is so linear it feels like there's a huge interesting world you never get to explore because the path doesn't let you leave it. Presumably there should be numerous interesting destinations along the pilgram trail to the north but once you leave the one city with the blitzball area in the south, there are no more cities or even towns to explore after that, just the occasional outpost and a city that you can't visit at all. Yes, I realize all JRPGs tend to be inherently linear, at least until you get the airship equivlent(often late game) but the older games were much better at hiding it. FF10 made it rather obvious you were in a very pretty tunnel and FF13 doubled down on that.


Despite really wanting to like it, I just couldn't make it work for me.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Don't get me wrong. I really do appreciate what ICO is and I've liked it well enough both times I've played it. It's hard enough to tell a story with almost no dialouge whatsoever. I just felt like TLG was a lot more enjoyable. However, the narration really wasn't needed(or at least not to the extent they did it) and the constant reminders of the controls was just dumb.

It's just that recently I've been replaying The Last Guardian again and man, it's like I'm fighting my way through the controls at every possible turn. Team Ico controls have always been a bit peculiar, but this is just exhausting. I know this is never going to happen considering the production hell it was stuck in, but I wish they could release a remastered version where they iron out the control and camera issues, put in a grab button, and make the narration optional. And yeah, get rid of those giant freaking button prompts, too.

 

[Xprimentyl]

Beyond Good and Evil for me. For years, I?d heard how great and classic a game it was and witnessed the passion and fervor of fans anticipating, nay, DEMANDING a sequel. Well, a few years ago, it was on XBL for dirt cheap, and a buddy of mine insisted that I buy it. So, I bought it, aaaaaaaand?. it did nothing for me. About the highest praise I could muster for it was that it was kinda cute, but I feel even had I played it back in its heyday, it wouldn?t have left any lasting or significant impressions on me; I certainly don?t get how it somehow managed to reach the iconic status that it has. The gameplay wasn?t anything special, the story had all the complexity of Saturday morning cartoon and the whole picture-taking gimmick was largely a chore resulting in an overall experience that was a disjointed, inoffensive bore.

I personally think that games don't age- people do. Generally speaking, if a game was great when it released and you can't see that, that's your problem, not the game's. I'd put GTA 3 up there as a prime example. I played Deus Ex for the first time a few years ago and while it was jarring seeing the graphics of Unreal Tournament mixed with such different aiming mechanics, I saw past that. People who, for example, think Goldeneye or Perfect Dark are impossible to go back to seem to be forgetting that it is they who have lost touch with the games of that time, not the other way around. Personally I still play them not because I'm ignoring the innovations that came later in the genre, but because of the things they still does better than games today.

I totally agree with this.

 

[CaitSeith]

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. The origin of the tried-and-tested Metroidvenia formula. It still holds pretty well.

Super Metroid and Castlevania IV on the SNES were clearly around before symphony of the night on playstation was.

symphony of the night wasn't the origin of anything other than of castlevania games coming to playstation

Sorry, but both Castlevania IV and Super Metroid lacked the RPG elements that made the formula complete. Don't get me wrong; both are pretty great games on their own right and I personally like them more than SotN.