This is going to be 90% ranting, 10% questioning. I know I could probably get better answers from more dedicated sites, but since I know users on this site play/have played at least one of these games, I feel it might be okay to run this by them. Because while I currently have these two MOBAs in my 'multiplayer rotation' (long story), I'm on the verge of giving up on the former. And to explain why, I'm going to go down memory lane.
HotS isn't the first MOBA I played (it's the third), but it's the first I enjoyed. Towards the end of last year though, I decided to give LoL a shot. Because while I like HotS, at this point, I'm kind of burnt out. At least in the sense that I understand how it plays, how its heroes play, how its maps function, etc. Hardly a professional player or anything, but basically, I don't feel HotS can surprise me much anymore. Figured with LoL though, I could give that a shot. If I'm moving into MOBAs with more complexity, figure I might as well try that before, say, Dota 2.
So, here's the thing - I feel HotS kind of left me ill prepared for LoL, because it requires a different mindset. I was expecting that from the start, and I accepted (and still accept) that I'd be a newb in comparison to more experienced players. That said, having reached around level 20 in LoL, while I have had some fun, and can appreciate the different feels of the two games, there's certain elements of LoL that I just can't get over. To illustrate them, I'm going to describe the last game I played.
So, go into blind pick. As with every single other game, immediately someone says "adc," and someone else says "mid." From the outset, two spots are determined by people who can type the fastest. This is in blind pick BTW, and I know that ARAM is a bit different, but from the outset, I can't help but prefer HotS's system in quick match, where I choose a hero first, then get paired. If I want an assassin, I'll be paired with people who aren't assassins (generalizing here), and have fun (hopefully) as an assassin. In LoL, if I want adc or mid, I either have to type really fast, or get into a spat fight. But, anyway, the roles were chosen. By this stage I'd understood that adcs and mids want the lanes to themselves (when I started, I didn't get why they kept telling me to go away - laning is different between the two games), so chose Morgana. No-one had chosen a support, so hey, fine. I seem to do reasonably well in supports in LoL, with Kayle being another example.
So, game starts (and props to LoL, the loading times are much better than HotS, and there's far less lag), and I go down the bottom lane with Miss Fortune. For my first ability, I choose an ability that creates a proverbial circle of death over a given area. It's not that good for heroes, but it is good for taking out minions, and I feel this early in the game, that should be a priority. So, laning starts, minions appear, and I start using said circle of death to kill enemy minions, while an enemy Ashe is nearby. Par for the course. I've done this before. Except Miss Fortune isn't happy. I'm apparently stealing her minion kills (I know there's an acronym for this, but I forget it). I think she's joking at first - I mean, we're on the same side. Our goal should be to take out as many minions as possible to push up as far as possible to get to the tower, right? I mean, it is a team game?
Thing is, I remember another game I played as Kayle where another champion (forget who) accused me of stealing minion kills. Back then, I thought it was a joke, but the similarities were too stark here. But I thought, Morgana has an ability that's based around killing minions (or seems to be - the circle of death isn't good against heroes, I need her stunny beam thing for that). If someone like Morgana isn't meant to kill minions, why have that ability? And why does it matter? I mean, I understand how last hitting works (which feels archaic, but regardless), but surely you're going to get more kills than me anyway because you've got two pistols that fire fast, while a character like Morgana is based more around magic, with a weaker actual attack. Surely the DPS rates will sort themselves out anyway?
I didn't ask this, but I did ask what she wanted me to do. Maybe she was trash talking, but I was wagering that I was still the least experienced person here (I was asked if I was new, which has happened a lot, and I've replied honestly that I am). Apparently what I was meant to do was hang around, not attack the minions at all, just use my shield ability, and attack a hero if the opportunity presented itself. Apparently I was meant to, essentially, do nothing for the opening phase of the game (well, that and place wards I guess). Again, in HotS, I've never had this problem. Minion kills are minion kills, it doesn't matter who gets them, since experience is shared. Kills vs. assists is tallied in both games, but in HotS, no-one has ever complained about kill stealing (not that I've seen anyway), because it's a moot point. I get that this is a turn-off for people who like to carry, but assuming that what Miss Fortune said was accurate, apparently the entire meta is based around some heroes getting to have fun, and others...not. In HotS, a support will rarely, if ever get as many minion/hero kills as an assassin/warrior, but at least there's no disincentive to avoid attacking the enemy constantly. Even if my primary job is healing, I've never felt disengaged from the actual combat.
So, fine. I do what Miss Fortune says. Ashe gets too close, I fire my stun beam thing, and hit her. We both attack her, and I get the killing shot. Miss Fortune chews me out for stealing her kill. I'm pretty sure it's in jest, but I'm not in a joking mood - I could see this kind of mindset be taken literally. I don't get that mindset, even in LoL - whoever kills the enemy hero, your team is still going to benefit from it. I remember when I first started, how people kept chewing me out for aiding them in taking out neutral creeps. In HotS, again, not an issue, since the creeps not only give you XP, but will push down a lane if you defeat them. In LoL, they're just for gold, and it's split between heroes (I think the killing blow factors in?) I soon learnt to stay clear of them jungling (unless it's something like Baron Nashor), but again, I find it disconcerting. This is obstensibly a team game, yet it punishes you for working as a team in some cases). I'd have thought that it shouldn't matter anyway, since it's the same amount of gold (I think), but I learned that people really want that gold all to themselves, whereas I would have thought that as it's the same amount, does it matter who it goes to?
So, anyway, back to the situation. The tower goes down (I get the killing shot in - yay), but our other lanes aren't doing so well. Not so well in that we soon enter a losing phase that goes on for about twenty minutes. Funny thing is, I've actually got a higher hero level than Miss Fortune (maybe I did take out too many minions?), and trash talking has begun between Cassiopia, Fiora, and to an extent, Miss Fortune (Jax didn't say much). The whole "you and me, after this, 1 on 1" thing - not as bad as being told I should never have been born in another match, but you get the idea. Again, back to HotS - trashtalking does rear its ugly head sometimes, but with far less frequency, and with far less vitriol. Honestly, I feel it's the more team-focused gameplay that contributes to that mostly, along with the generally shorter game length. But even then, I'm not playing in ranked, so I'd have thought that people here would generally be more blase to winning or losing, but apparently not.
So, we lose, after 40 minutes of game time. Looking at the score sheet, I don't think I did too bad (in terms of XP/gold, I took the #3 spot for our team), and get a B ranking for Morgana. That said, I feel tired, and not just because it's nearly 1 in the morning. I want to like LoL. Really. I want to do it because there's a very different feel in it from HotS - bit slower, bit more tactical, bit more in-depth, and I could see myself learning the game over time. However, there's just so much stuff that I don't think is just me.
I'm tired of the constant shit talking, even if it isn't necessarily directed at me.
I'm tired of every login screen having the same "adc" and "mid" declarations, effectively ensuring that roles are always pidgeon-holed to some extent.
I'm tired of feeling that the game is at odds with itself, being based around team play, yet de-incentivizing teamplay in numerous areas.
So, yeah. I said this would be 90% ranting, 10% questioning, so I have to ask, based on people's experiences...is it worth it? Or, rather, based on this analogy, I'd have the following questions:
-Is Miss Fortune correct? Was it really the correct action to not engage minions in this kind of scenario (or any similar scenario - see the earlier Kayle one)?
-Do the toxic attitudes get better/more bearable over time, or are they kind of a constant?
-Does the meta change? Can I ever expect to see a login screen with the same "adc" and "mid" declarations?
-Based on my general preference for HotS and its more team-focused approach, is it even worth trying to get into LoL (or similar MOBAs) when I feel that I'm in a "it's not you, it's me" situation? Would it be worth trying ARAM (I have tried, but no-one seems to play that mode - I eventually gave up because of the searching time)
-Any personal experiences in these games or similar ones? I've seen tales of numerous people trying HotS after LoL (some like it, some don't), but not many going the other way (doesn't have to be LoL).
So, yeah. Bear in mind, I'm not claiming that HotS is better than LoL (well, I do believe that, but that's not the point), and I'm guessing a lot of people are shaking their heads and thinking "git gud you (censored) noob", but, well, yeah. Discuss, respond, report. Your choice.
HotS isn't the first MOBA I played (it's the third), but it's the first I enjoyed. Towards the end of last year though, I decided to give LoL a shot. Because while I like HotS, at this point, I'm kind of burnt out. At least in the sense that I understand how it plays, how its heroes play, how its maps function, etc. Hardly a professional player or anything, but basically, I don't feel HotS can surprise me much anymore. Figured with LoL though, I could give that a shot. If I'm moving into MOBAs with more complexity, figure I might as well try that before, say, Dota 2.
So, here's the thing - I feel HotS kind of left me ill prepared for LoL, because it requires a different mindset. I was expecting that from the start, and I accepted (and still accept) that I'd be a newb in comparison to more experienced players. That said, having reached around level 20 in LoL, while I have had some fun, and can appreciate the different feels of the two games, there's certain elements of LoL that I just can't get over. To illustrate them, I'm going to describe the last game I played.
So, go into blind pick. As with every single other game, immediately someone says "adc," and someone else says "mid." From the outset, two spots are determined by people who can type the fastest. This is in blind pick BTW, and I know that ARAM is a bit different, but from the outset, I can't help but prefer HotS's system in quick match, where I choose a hero first, then get paired. If I want an assassin, I'll be paired with people who aren't assassins (generalizing here), and have fun (hopefully) as an assassin. In LoL, if I want adc or mid, I either have to type really fast, or get into a spat fight. But, anyway, the roles were chosen. By this stage I'd understood that adcs and mids want the lanes to themselves (when I started, I didn't get why they kept telling me to go away - laning is different between the two games), so chose Morgana. No-one had chosen a support, so hey, fine. I seem to do reasonably well in supports in LoL, with Kayle being another example.
So, game starts (and props to LoL, the loading times are much better than HotS, and there's far less lag), and I go down the bottom lane with Miss Fortune. For my first ability, I choose an ability that creates a proverbial circle of death over a given area. It's not that good for heroes, but it is good for taking out minions, and I feel this early in the game, that should be a priority. So, laning starts, minions appear, and I start using said circle of death to kill enemy minions, while an enemy Ashe is nearby. Par for the course. I've done this before. Except Miss Fortune isn't happy. I'm apparently stealing her minion kills (I know there's an acronym for this, but I forget it). I think she's joking at first - I mean, we're on the same side. Our goal should be to take out as many minions as possible to push up as far as possible to get to the tower, right? I mean, it is a team game?
Thing is, I remember another game I played as Kayle where another champion (forget who) accused me of stealing minion kills. Back then, I thought it was a joke, but the similarities were too stark here. But I thought, Morgana has an ability that's based around killing minions (or seems to be - the circle of death isn't good against heroes, I need her stunny beam thing for that). If someone like Morgana isn't meant to kill minions, why have that ability? And why does it matter? I mean, I understand how last hitting works (which feels archaic, but regardless), but surely you're going to get more kills than me anyway because you've got two pistols that fire fast, while a character like Morgana is based more around magic, with a weaker actual attack. Surely the DPS rates will sort themselves out anyway?
I didn't ask this, but I did ask what she wanted me to do. Maybe she was trash talking, but I was wagering that I was still the least experienced person here (I was asked if I was new, which has happened a lot, and I've replied honestly that I am). Apparently what I was meant to do was hang around, not attack the minions at all, just use my shield ability, and attack a hero if the opportunity presented itself. Apparently I was meant to, essentially, do nothing for the opening phase of the game (well, that and place wards I guess). Again, in HotS, I've never had this problem. Minion kills are minion kills, it doesn't matter who gets them, since experience is shared. Kills vs. assists is tallied in both games, but in HotS, no-one has ever complained about kill stealing (not that I've seen anyway), because it's a moot point. I get that this is a turn-off for people who like to carry, but assuming that what Miss Fortune said was accurate, apparently the entire meta is based around some heroes getting to have fun, and others...not. In HotS, a support will rarely, if ever get as many minion/hero kills as an assassin/warrior, but at least there's no disincentive to avoid attacking the enemy constantly. Even if my primary job is healing, I've never felt disengaged from the actual combat.
So, fine. I do what Miss Fortune says. Ashe gets too close, I fire my stun beam thing, and hit her. We both attack her, and I get the killing shot. Miss Fortune chews me out for stealing her kill. I'm pretty sure it's in jest, but I'm not in a joking mood - I could see this kind of mindset be taken literally. I don't get that mindset, even in LoL - whoever kills the enemy hero, your team is still going to benefit from it. I remember when I first started, how people kept chewing me out for aiding them in taking out neutral creeps. In HotS, again, not an issue, since the creeps not only give you XP, but will push down a lane if you defeat them. In LoL, they're just for gold, and it's split between heroes (I think the killing blow factors in?) I soon learnt to stay clear of them jungling (unless it's something like Baron Nashor), but again, I find it disconcerting. This is obstensibly a team game, yet it punishes you for working as a team in some cases). I'd have thought that it shouldn't matter anyway, since it's the same amount of gold (I think), but I learned that people really want that gold all to themselves, whereas I would have thought that as it's the same amount, does it matter who it goes to?
So, anyway, back to the situation. The tower goes down (I get the killing shot in - yay), but our other lanes aren't doing so well. Not so well in that we soon enter a losing phase that goes on for about twenty minutes. Funny thing is, I've actually got a higher hero level than Miss Fortune (maybe I did take out too many minions?), and trash talking has begun between Cassiopia, Fiora, and to an extent, Miss Fortune (Jax didn't say much). The whole "you and me, after this, 1 on 1" thing - not as bad as being told I should never have been born in another match, but you get the idea. Again, back to HotS - trashtalking does rear its ugly head sometimes, but with far less frequency, and with far less vitriol. Honestly, I feel it's the more team-focused gameplay that contributes to that mostly, along with the generally shorter game length. But even then, I'm not playing in ranked, so I'd have thought that people here would generally be more blase to winning or losing, but apparently not.
So, we lose, after 40 minutes of game time. Looking at the score sheet, I don't think I did too bad (in terms of XP/gold, I took the #3 spot for our team), and get a B ranking for Morgana. That said, I feel tired, and not just because it's nearly 1 in the morning. I want to like LoL. Really. I want to do it because there's a very different feel in it from HotS - bit slower, bit more tactical, bit more in-depth, and I could see myself learning the game over time. However, there's just so much stuff that I don't think is just me.
I'm tired of the constant shit talking, even if it isn't necessarily directed at me.
I'm tired of every login screen having the same "adc" and "mid" declarations, effectively ensuring that roles are always pidgeon-holed to some extent.
I'm tired of feeling that the game is at odds with itself, being based around team play, yet de-incentivizing teamplay in numerous areas.
So, yeah. I said this would be 90% ranting, 10% questioning, so I have to ask, based on people's experiences...is it worth it? Or, rather, based on this analogy, I'd have the following questions:
-Is Miss Fortune correct? Was it really the correct action to not engage minions in this kind of scenario (or any similar scenario - see the earlier Kayle one)?
-Do the toxic attitudes get better/more bearable over time, or are they kind of a constant?
-Does the meta change? Can I ever expect to see a login screen with the same "adc" and "mid" declarations?
-Based on my general preference for HotS and its more team-focused approach, is it even worth trying to get into LoL (or similar MOBAs) when I feel that I'm in a "it's not you, it's me" situation? Would it be worth trying ARAM (I have tried, but no-one seems to play that mode - I eventually gave up because of the searching time)
-Any personal experiences in these games or similar ones? I've seen tales of numerous people trying HotS after LoL (some like it, some don't), but not many going the other way (doesn't have to be LoL).
So, yeah. Bear in mind, I'm not claiming that HotS is better than LoL (well, I do believe that, but that's not the point), and I'm guessing a lot of people are shaking their heads and thinking "git gud you (censored) noob", but, well, yeah. Discuss, respond, report. Your choice.
