Legacy of the Void related questions

[JamesStone]

I've recently gotten the urge to replay the whole Starcraft II campaigns continuously, but it's been a while since I played, so I got a few questions for y'all.


First, is there any mod that applies campaign changes retroactively? For example, puts models and textures introduced in HotS in WoL? I remember distinctively being bothered by how the Hyperion looked like a regular battleship in one of the first missions of Wings after playing Heart of the Swarm, or how downright vanilla the Tal'Darim looked like in both campaigns after the blast that was Legacy of The Void.

Second, what's your opinion on campaign upgrades? I'm mostly speaking of Legacy of the Void, the WoL and HotS are for the most part obvious. I'm a sucker for Centurion-Dragoon rush with Reconstruction Beam, but I want some new strats.

Third, for the loremongers amongst us, what did you think of the story now that it's all finished. For the most part I really, really liked how everything came together, and most of my peeves with previous plot points were washed away after my first back-to-back replay of the campaigns. The only thing I'm still bothered by is that we don't get to see Jim's character change much in Wings of Liberty. I feel like there should have been more focus on the way his character was in Brood War (Mostly the same but pretty angry against Kerrigan and a bitter fuck in general) and Starcraft II. While I understand why they decided to go the route of indifferent -> wanting to save Kerrigan (Zeratul's warning and missions give him preeeeeetty good reasons to not blame Kerrigan personally and wanting to save her but they're optional and newcomers who don't want to play them would probably be very weirded out by the massive tonal shift midway), I'd still prefer a more nuanced character arc.

 

[happyninja42]

I can't speak about upgrades and strategies, as I am so ridiculously a casual SC 2 player it's not even funny.

As to the story, I enjoyed it...up until the ending bonus missions. It felt very...meh to me. I honestly would've preferred to not play the bonus missions, and just end it with the protoss campaign.

But that's me, I'm not a fan of the zerg, and I don't have the fanboner a lot of people have for Kerrigan. I was especially annoyed with the fucking retcon they did in Heart of the Swarm, making her go RIGHT BACK to being the fucking Queen of Blades, after all the work I put into saving her. It felt like I could've just not played Wings of Liberty, for all the narrative impact it had on anything. But I'm apparently in the minority in my opinion that a species that violently kills any in front of it, and then forcibly takes their genetic material, using it to enslave them to a collective mind against their will, is somehow a BAD THING. Silly me, but hey, I'm just weird like that. So I don't really care for any plots that are designed to try and convince me that the galaxy spawning virus, that consumes entire planets is somehow a positive thing in the universe, or something even remotely close to the concept of a protagonist.

But other than that massive problem, I've enjoyed the story for the most part. Good start, shitty middle, good climax, disappointing ending. Overall, 7.5/10, with lots of props for the fucking awesome cinematics for the Protoss and the Terrans.

 

[JamesStone]

snip

Hey, I'm no twitch-gamer either. If you got some little strat you like to do don't be afraid to share. A friend of mine for example likes play hyperdefensive until he gets everything set up to build Dark Archons, gets 10 of the fuckers then builds his own army with the AI's units. Doesn't work on all missions but it's pretty funny to see.

As for the lore discussion:

The epilogue missions were a bit "meh", I agree, but that's a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation. I think Blizzard showed a lot of integrity with it, actually. With the way Xel'naga are, they could have easily kept Amon around for their recurring villain, but instead decided to just go "fuck that!" and have the characters take responsibility for their actions. Plus it clears a lot of the mess it'd create to just leave Kerrigan around as she was.

For the "retcon", I think you missed a spot, mate. If I remember the story correctly, the Overmind created Kerrigan supposedly to get a good frontline psionic general but in truth to have the opportunity to commit suicide-by-protoss and have the swarm free of Amon's will. It didn't work - Kerrigan had the potential to break free but still had Amon's directive imprinted in her - and that Ouros Xel'naga bloke knew it, so he created a prophecy to manipulate Zeratul and by consequence everyone else to purge Kerrigan of the "corrupted" (by Amon) Zerg DNA and have her become the Queen of Blades again but this time with Primal Zerg DNA - pure of essence and free of Amon's handprints. This way she's as powerful as she was before if not more but she's free of Amon's influence.


I think that's one of the most ingenious part of the franchise really. Neither the Zerg or the Protoss we knew of the first games were the "real" species. Both had been contaminated by Amon in their own way. In fact, while the existence of the Primal Zerg prove they were the ones which would evolve into Purity of Essence (more likely than not a few more centuries of uninterrupted cycles on Zerus would have created a few near-perfect individuals who would reach the peak of essence and not feel the need to consume each other or anyone else), it's very likely the Protoss were never supposed to be the Pure of Form. The only reason they're even so advanced is because Amon and the lesser Xel'Naga that followed him uplifted them.
Considering the Terran's propensity for psionics, it's likely the humans would have been the true Pure of Form race to emerge this cycle.


I honestly think this whole story arc was planned from the beggining, give or take a few things. Can't say I'm 100% happy with everything, but I can really respect the commitment to the story, and how ready they were to not leave anything behind (barring the UED's return, but I feel that's something for another time).

 

[happyninja42]

snip

Hey, I'm no twitch-gamer either. If you got some little strat you like to do don't be afraid to share. A friend of mine for example likes play hyperdefensive until he gets everything set up to build Dark Archons, gets 10 of the fuckers then builds his own army with the AI's units. Doesn't work on all missions but it's pretty funny to see.

I don't really play competitive at all, only coop, and strategy just isn't really an issue there.

As for the lore discussion:

For the "retcon", I think you missed a spot, mate. If I remember the story correctly, the Overmind created Kerrigan supposedly to get a good frontline psionic general but in truth to have the opportunity to commit suicide-by-protoss and have the swarm free of Amon's will. It didn't work - Kerrigan had the potential to break free but still had Amon's directive imprinted in her - and that Ouros Xel'naga bloke knew it, so he created a prophecy to manipulate Zeratul and by consequence everyone else to purge Kerrigan of the "corrupted" (by Amon) Zerg DNA and have her become the Queen of Blades again but this time with Primal Zerg DNA - pure of essence and free of Amon's handprints. This way she's as powerful as she was before if not more but she's free of Amon's influence.


I think that's one of the most ingenious part of the franchise really.

Oh I understand the why of it, I'm still calling bullshit on it from a narrative standpoint. I don't care what "reason" they cooked up to justify putting Kerrigan back exactly the same way she was at the start of SC 2, it totally negates the entire narrative thrust of Wings of Liberty. Rainer's entire motivation was to try and save Kerrigan, and he does that....and then they undo all of it in the opening sequences of HotS. It was frustrating to play through, and didn't gel for me narratively.

It felt more like they had a meeting and were like "Ok so, we just destroyed one of our most signature characters, and identifiable poster girls for this franchise...and we're getting tons of fanboy hate about getting rid of their sexy Zerg Kerrigan fetish fuel...so let's just retcon that shit and get her back where she was, otherwise we have to actually come up with some other reason to justify the players controlling the Zerg that doesn't make them entirely the antagonist. And that is not a good reason, in my book, for backpedaling on the narrative direction (the redemption and restoration of Kerrigan's humanity) that they started SC 2 off with.

Neither the Zerg or the Protoss we knew of the first games were the "real" species. Both had been contaminated by Amon in their own way. In fact, while the existence of the Primal Zerg prove they were the ones which would evolve into Purity of Essence (more likely than not a few more centuries of uninterrupted cycles on Zerus would have created a few near-perfect individuals who would reach the peak of essence and not feel the need to consume each other or anyone else), it's very likely the Protoss were never supposed to be the Pure of Form. The only reason they're even so advanced is because Amon and the lesser Xel'Naga that followed him uplifted them.
Considering the Terran's propensity for psionics, it's likely the humans would have been the true Pure of Form race to emerge this cycle.


I honestly think this whole story arc was planned from the beggining, give or take a few things. Can't say I'm 100% happy with everything, but I can really respect the commitment to the story, and how ready they were to not leave anything behind (barring the UED's return, but I feel that's something for another time).

Eh, I just simply disagree that this was planned from the start. It feels to slapped together to me for me to believe a "we planned this the whole time!" line from Blizzard. As to the Protoss only becoming evolved because of Amon, I doubt that's the case honestly. I think it's more accurate to say that he saw they were going to evolve to be a good vessel for him, just like the Zerg were, and inserted himself into their evolution so that he could later manipulate them.

Regardless, the conclusion, of

Spoiler

Kerrigan becoming some Vorlon/Shadow hybrid jesus that dies (but not really) for our sins, just felt like such Storytelling 101 crap to me.

I think they more likely wrote themselves into a corner with the various, divergent plot threads they were messing with, and it was the easiest way they could wrap up the storyline.

 

[RJ 17]

As a "recent" topic I made implied: I just finished playing through the SCII campaigns as well. I'll start off with my upgrades (note: I tend to remember them by their function, not their specific name )

Spear of Adun:
-Summon Pylon
-Stasis Field (the thing that lets you drop 3 time-stop zones to freeze enemies)
-Free gas harvesting, but only until I get some ships that are actually worth building (i.e. void rays, arbiters, and carriers), then I go for the Warp-In for ships and robots.
-Shield Overcharge
-Increased attack/movement speed when in pylon fields (until the final mission, then I switch to Reconstruction Beam)
-Time Stop
Keep the buffs in the middle (build time/starting supply/shield recharge speed) pumped full until the final mission where I sac some of the charge and starting supply to get enough points to get Recon Beam

Units:
Whirlwind Zealots
Stalkers
Dark Templar
Sentries
Tal'Darim Immortals
Regular Colossi
Corsair
Tal'Darim Void Ray (until Arbiters become available, then get those)
Regular Templar (used purely for making Archons)
Carriers

Call me old-fashioned, but in terms of campaign strength: it's hard to beat the good ol' fleet of carriers (especially since in the LotV campaign a fleet of carriers repairs itself) with 3-4 arbiters strat. Prior to those ships becoming available: a handful of stalkers, zealots, dark templars, and a fleet of Tal'Darim Voidrays will get the job done. Prior to that, I'd go with a healthy assortment of ground units (ignoring air units all together): frontline of zealots, 6-8 DT's, 8 Stalkers, 4-5 Sentries, and 6-8 Archons.

As for the story: I liked it well enough. HappyNinja definitely has a point about the story being shamelessly retconned in a number of places...but this is Blizzard we're talking about: if they're not retconning the crap out of their stories then apparently their writers aren't doing their jobs (just look at how many times the WC universe has been beaten to death with the retcon bat). That said, it's not the worst job I've seen them do.

Regarding the point of the Zerg being a murderous race of murdering murder-bugs, I think it should be pointed out that everything Kerrigan does in HotS is for her survival. She slaughters the Protoss on the ice world because if even one gets out, the Protoss fleet will come and kick her ass since she barely has any Swarm at all at this point. She invades Char because that's the heart of the Zerg "empire", going there reincorporates numerous broods...and she does show mercy once it's clear that she's won and the Terran are retreating. She even bends over backwards to allow Valerian to evacuate as many civilians as possible, sabotaging her own battle plans by landing outside of the city and agreeing to avoid civilian sectors, in order to show that she's not just a blood thirsty monster anymore.

In the end I think her motivations can be summed up by what she tells the protoss captive she takes: "There may be more blood on my hands than on yours, but in the end we're both killers." As I said in the other topic: she's under no illusion of moral superiority. She's not looking for redemption or forgiveness...she's looking for vengeance. Vengeance is always a selfish motivation, and that's something she's fully aware of. Instead of preparing for the End War that Zeratul showed her, she instead chooses to pursue her vengeance. To be fair though: she does give everyone fair warning to stay out of her way and she won't fuck with them, so at least there's that.

 

[happyninja42]

As for the story: I liked it well enough. HappyNinja definitely has a point about the story being shamelessly retconned in a number of places...but this is Blizzard we're talking about: if they're not retconning the crap out of their stories then apparently their writers aren't doing their jobs (just look at how many times the WC universe has been beaten to death with the retcon bat). That said, it's not the worst job I've seen them do.

I wouldn't know, I haven't followed WC for years. It doesn't have to be the worst retcon they've done to still be bad though.

Regarding the point of the Zerg being a murderous race of murdering murder-bugs, I think it should be pointed out that everything Kerrigan does in HotS is for her survival.

No, just, no. Everything she does is for revenge. Period. She voluntarily remakes her deal with the devil so that she has the power she needs to get revenge on the person she (incorrectly) thinks killed Rainer. Every action after that, is motivated by the need for more power so that she can murder millions of soldiers, just to kill one guy she's got a grudge against. Some people might be ok with that motivation for an anti-hero, but I personally don't like it, and think it's a load of BS on her part. "They killed my boyfriend! I'LL KILL THEM ALL!!!!" 99.9% of the time someone makes that statement in stories, it's when they become the Bad Guy.

She slaughters the Protoss on the ice world because if even one gets out, the Protoss fleet will come and kick her ass since she barely has any Swarm at all at this point.

Right, because the Swarm is a threat to everyone, a point Kerrigan herself teaches the Terrans in the tutorial missions I might add. I don't recall her precise wording, but it basically boiled down to "You can't negotiate with them, you can't reason with them, they will just attack you and devour your planet, because they are the Zerg, and that's what they do." Given how much damage the Swarm did in the past, that the Terrans and Protoss are WELL aware of, and knowing how terrifying the Swarm was with Kerrigan at their head, yeah, trying to wipe her out before she...oh I don't know, becomes a threat strong enough to destroy the galaxy is an entirely reasonable response.

She invades Char because that's the heart of the Zerg "empire", going there reincorporates numerous broods...and she does show mercy once it's clear that she's won and the Terran are retreating. She even bends over backwards to allow Valerian to evacuate as many civilians as possible, sabotaging her own battle plans by landing outside of the city and agreeing to avoid civilian sectors, in order to show that she's not just a blood thirsty monster anymore.

Yes..not a blood thirsty monster anymore, sorry but I think we saw different cutscenes, of her Swarm pouring over worlds, killing everyone who stood up to defend the world against her, all so she can kill one guy.

In the end I think her motivations can be summed up by what she tells the protoss captive she takes: "There may be more blood on my hands than on yours, but in the end we're both killers." As I said in the other topic: she's under no illusion of moral superiority. She's not looking for redemption or forgiveness...she's looking for vengeance. Vengeance is always a selfish motivation, and that's something she's fully aware of. Instead of preparing for the End War that Zeratul showed her, she instead chooses to pursue her vengeance. To be fair though: she does give everyone fair warning to stay out of her way and she won't fuck with them, so at least there's that.

I don't have an issue with Kerrigan's lack of illusions to moral superiority, I'm talking about the writing of it by Blizzard. Sure, Kerrigan might be fully aware that she's a monster, but the way they try and soften her actions just falls flat for me. "See?! She's only killed 1.5 million people on this planet! That's a 35% reduction in casualties from before! She's a good guy!" Just doesn't hold water for me.

Now I know a lot of people love playing anti-heroes, and that's fine. Some people love the Zerg, and playing that "morally gray bastard" kind of character. Fine, I'm not that kind of person. For me, concepts like the Zerg and Kerrigan, should firmly be rooted in the Antagonist camp. Or, if you are going to base an entire game campaign around redeeming the character who has fallen you don't immediately reverse it at the start of the next expansion. I mean, if Episode 7 of Star Wars, started with the resurrection of Darth Vader (I mean seriously resurrect him, like the actual person), and then have him, after having been redeemed, decide to go Dark Side again, I would call bullshit on that story, and I think most fans would too.

 

[RJ 17]

I wouldn't know, I haven't followed WC for years. It doesn't have to be the worst retcon they've done to still be bad though.

Oh trust me...the things that they've done to the WC universe could be considered criminal. Entire characters wiped from existence with no explanation at all, just because their existence would conflict with a new plot line they want to introduce. At least SC kinda-sorta explains its retcons...WC is just like "Yeah, that person never existed and those events never happened. Deal with it."

No, just, no. Everything she does is for revenge. Period. She voluntarily remakes her deal with the devil so that she has the power she needs to get revenge on the person she (incorrectly) thinks killed Rainer. Every action after that, is motivated by the need for more power so that she can murder millions of soldiers, just to kill one guy she's got a grudge against. Some people might be ok with that motivation for an anti-hero, but I personally don't like it, and think it's a load of BS on her part. "They killed my boyfriend! I'LL KILL THEM ALL!!!!" 99.9% of the time someone makes that statement in stories, it's when they become the Bad Guy.

Considering the fact that the target of her revenge is an Emperor that commands a massive army, as hell-bent as she is on her revenge: it was going to take an army of her own in order for her to get to him.

Right, because the Swarm is a threat to everyone, a point Kerrigan herself teaches the Terrans in the tutorial missions I might add. I don't recall her precise wording, but it basically boiled down to "You can't negotiate with them, you can't reason with them, they will just attack you and devour your planet, because they are the Zerg, and that's what they do." Given how much damage the Swarm did in the past, that the Terrans and Protoss are WELL aware of, and knowing how terrifying the Swarm was with Kerrigan at their head, yeah, trying to wipe her out before she...oh I don't know, becomes a threat strong enough to destroy the galaxy is an entirely reasonable response.

Her point was that Valerian and other species could never hope to control the Zerg. Kerrigan is essentially the new Overmind. After making her point, she sends the rampaging zergling buggers back to their cages. The reason everyone thinks she's a threat is because...yeah...she kinda made a name for herself back in Brood War for betraying and backstabbing everyone she had ever known. She's changed now, the point of WoL - if you ask me, but then again apparently I'm an apologist for this story - is to give Kerrigan back her humanity. That is something that she maintains even after becoming the Queen of Blades again, but who's going to believe her? The Protoss show up with their armada, is she just going to say "No, really guys! It's all good this time! I'm just REALLY pissed off at Mengsk this time. Once I'm done with him I promise I'll bugger off and leave everyone alone!" which is what she does at the end of HotS.

Yes..not a blood thirsty monster anymore, sorry but I think we saw different cutscenes, of her Swarm pouring over worlds, killing everyone who stood up to defend the world against her, all so she can kill one guy.

One guy who is defended by one of the most powerful armies in the sector. You make it sound like she launched a war to overthrow a ruthless dictator when all she had to do was catch him in a back ally and shank him in the stomach. I suppose all the Allies had to do in WWII was send someone to Berlin to strangle Hitler in his sleep. Killing someone that's a military leader isn't quite that easy...a war needs to be fought, which means that soldiers need to be killed.

I don't have an issue with Kerrigan's lack of illusions to moral superiority, I'm talking about the writing of it by Blizzard. Sure, Kerrigan might be fully aware that she's a monster, but the way they try and soften her actions just falls flat for me. "See?! She's only killed 1.5 million people on this planet! That's a 35% reduction in casualties from before! She's a good guy!" Just doesn't hold water for me.

I can certainly understand and respect that. But in terms of what she used to be, the fact that she shows any mercy at all is a big change, and that's the change that's meant to be focused on. She's not burning worlds just for the hell of it any more. When possible, she does show mercy. None of that takes away from the fact that, indeed, she's on a quest for personal vengeance against the man who turned her into the monster she is, and to do that she has to launch a bloody war.

Now I know a lot of people love playing anti-heroes, and that's fine. Some people love the Zerg, and playing that "morally gray bastard" kind of character. Fine, I'm not that kind of person. For me, concepts like the Zerg and Kerrigan, should firmly be rooted in the Antagonist camp. Or, if you are going to base an entire game campaign around redeeming the character who has fallen you don't immediately reverse it at the start of the next expansion. I mean, if Episode 7 of Star Wars, started with the resurrection of Darth Vader (I mean seriously resurrect him, like the actual person), and then have him, after having been redeemed, decide to go Dark Side again, I would call bullshit on that story, and I think most fans would too.

For your SW comparison: I'd say it'd be more accurate to say it'd be like if they brought Vader back and he was ready to kick some Last Regiment (or whatever the badguys called themselves, I forgot already ) ass...but he was still force-choking his way through the Storm Troopers.

I'm not going to sit here and try to get you to suddenly see that Kerrigan isn't such a bad person...because she truly is a monster. As I mentioned, the over-all point of WoL was to give Kerrigan back her humanity. Returning her to a human form was the physical manifestation of that. HotS shows that even though she goes back to her monstrous form, she now still has her humanity. She isn't interested in galactic domination the way she was in Brood Wars. She needed an army to get her revenge, and once she got her revenge she left the terrans alone to go prepare for the fight against Amon. The old Queen of Blades - the one that is a full-fledged villain - would have killed Jimmy and Valerian then made sure that not a single terran on Korhal was alive.

The payoff of WoL's campaign based around "redeeming" Kerrigan is seen in the fact that she doesn't annihilate everyone once she's regained the full might of the Swarm. She gets her revenge, then she buggers off. Her personal (and very selfish, to be sure) war against the terrans is over. In the end, HotS is essentially a story of one terrible person starting a war to get revenge on another terrible person. The only reason people feel sympathetic towards Kerrigan is the fact that Mengsk is the one that turned her into a terrible person in the first place. Going back to his betrayal of Kerrigan, abandoning her to the Zerg, one could say that all the blood that the Queen of Blades has ever spilled is as much on Mengsk's hands as it is on hers, considering that if Mengsk had never betrayed Kerrigan, the Queen of Blades would never have existed in the first place.

Now as I said: I can definitely understand where you're coming from with your views on the matter and I'm not going to try to change those views. All I'm doing is offering up the perspective of the other side.

 

[Hawki]

Oh trust me...the things that they've done to the WC universe could be considered criminal. Entire characters wiped from existence with no explanation at all, just because their existence would conflict with a new plot line they want to introduce. At least SC kinda-sorta explains its retcons...WC is just like "Yeah, that person never existed and those events never happened. Deal with it."

Wait, when did that happen? Med'an? I know he's been mentioned as having been removed, so to speak, but the official explanation is that he's doing his own thing in a different world somewhere.

 

[RJ 17]

Oh trust me...the things that they've done to the WC universe could be considered criminal. Entire characters wiped from existence with no explanation at all, just because their existence would conflict with a new plot line they want to introduce. At least SC kinda-sorta explains its retcons...WC is just like "Yeah, that person never existed and those events never happened. Deal with it."

Wait, when did that happen? Med'an? I know he's been mentioned as having been removed, so to speak, but the official explanation is that he's doing his own thing in a different world somewhere.

Med'an's story ended up with him becoming the new Guardian...well that kinda goes against the Khadgar cutscene pre-launch where the dreadlord disguised as Medivh is trying to get Khadgar to accept the mantle of the Guardian. I believe it was during a panel Q&A at Blizzcon where someone brought up this discrepancy and asked what happened to Med'an, to which Blizzard said something along the lines of "If you love something, let it go." So yeah, basically everything that happened with Med'an was just wiped away and is now officially considered non-canon...yet they did say that they're keeping the idea of Med'an as a character, so he may be reintroduced at some point.

Bonus points to you for knowing exactly who I was talking about in the post you quoted. :3

 

[Hawki]

Med'an's story ended up with him becoming the new Guardian...well that kinda goes against the Khadgar cutscene pre-launch where the dreadlord disguised as Medivh is trying to get Khadgar to accept the mantle of the Guardian. I believe it was during a panel Q&A at Blizzcon where someone brought up this discrepancy and asked what happened to Med'an, to which Blizzard said something along the lines of "If you love something, let it go." So yeah, basically everything that happened with Med'an was just wiped away and is now officially considered non-canon...yet they did say that they're keeping the idea of Med'an as a character, so he may be reintroduced at some point.

Bonus points to you for knowing exactly who I was talking about in the post you quoted. :3

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Med%27an#Notes

Just for reference. I'm aware of the BC 2016 comments, but they don't quite jive with what we've heard of Med'an before then.

The out of universe explanation is that Blizzard realized how everyone hated Med'an (well, not everyone, but count me among them), and quietly shunted him off to the sidelines. The in-universe explanation is that he stepped down as guardian before Legion and is doing his own thing, leaving Khadgar to take the role.

It reminds me of the timeline in StarCraft: Evolution, which places the Legacy of the Void epilogue in 2508, rather than relying on the "two years later" blurb. I'm left to ask, why? It's arbitrary, pointless, and the epilogue feels far more potent with Raynor being alone for two years, among other things. So, with Med'an, I don't know if he's really been removed entirely, but that he's a character that the writers don't want to deal with.

 

[JamesStone]

Sooooo, no mods for retroactive campaign changes? Damn, I really liked how those Tal'darim looked. Was even hoping I'd get to ride Hellbats...

 

[RJ 17]

Sooooo, no mods for retroactive campaign changes? Damn, I really liked how those Tal'darim looked. Was even hoping I'd get to ride Hellbats...

To my knowledge, there aren't any mods that affect the campaign itself.

Snip.

To be clear: I don't have any particular love for Med'an, either. I didn't even know he existed until I heard him referenced on a podcast a couple weeks ago and was like "Wait-wait-wait...Medivh had a half-orc son?" Looked him up and sure enough, there he was. Later that very week I got into a discussion with someone else about how I didn't like the way that Blizzard often goes nuts with retconning because elements of the past story don't fit in with where they want to go with the future story. It's a symptom of how bloated their writing is, and how they often leave rather large loose threads that aren't addressed and are just hand-waved off. Indeed: Med'an is a fine example of that.

From the page you linked:

Based on what Afrasiabi said at the end, the character himself still seems to be canon, just not him being Guardian. Given the many events from the comics that have been subsequently referenced in the game or other materials - such as Cho'gall's mutation, Garona's vendetta against Cho'gall in the Twilight Highlands, Aegwynn's death, and Kathra'natir inside of Meryl - it seems that for the most part the events of the comic still happened, just without Med'an being the Guardian. When asked further, Afrasiabi clarified that he did not mean the entire comic was non-canon, only that Med'an being Guardian was.[4]

So the events of the comic itself are canon...just nothing dealing with Med'an - who was in the comics - is still canon. They just plucked him right out of the story and said "Yeah, sorry bud, but we're going in a different direction so you didn't ever actually happen." That's what I'm talking about: he didn't fit in with where they were wanting to take the story, so they pretended that he was pretty much the only aspect of the comics that is officially non-canon...everything else got to stay in there.

"that doesn't mean that there can't be a story for Med'an, it's just not like it was laid out in the comics,"

That's him saying "We're not going to rule him out as a concept, but yeah...for now it's best if you just didn't think about him too much."

I understand why they did it, hell I can even condone it since I find the idea of Med'an to be rather silly in it's concept...point remains though that he stands as an example of Blizzard's hamfisted retconning ways.

 

[Pyrian]

That's not a RetCon at all. A RetCon is when you change what already happened, not when something else happens afterward that (partially) undoes the effects of something prior.

 

[Mangod]

That's not a RetCon at all. A RetCon is when you change what already happened, not when something else happens afterward that (partially) undoes the effects of something prior.

Very true. Kerrigan turning back into the Queen of Blades during the first half of HotS is not a retcon. However, it does render the plot of WoL sort of... moot? Mengsk is still alive at the beginning of HotS, Kerrigan is the Queen again... HotS doesn't retcon WoL, but it hits the Reset Button [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ResetButton]. What did WoL accomplish?

Other than introducing Space!Sargeras to the setting, I mean?

 

[Pyrian]

However, it does render the plot of WoL sort of... moot?

Was the plot of WoL a quest to make Kerrigan look different? Seems like a very shallow rendition to me. Kerrigan goes from being a thrall to being a free agent (kind of her thing, really), but past that, well, she was still ordering Zerg about, human appearance notwithstanding. Beyond that... Kerrigan gonna Kerrigan. You're pinning everything on the change in her body.

"I like what I am." - Kerrigan as Queen of Blades, original Starcraft

 

[Mangod]

However, it does render the plot of WoL sort of... moot?

Was the plot of WoL a quest to make Kerrigan look different? Seems like a very shallow rendition to me. Kerrigan goes from being a thrall to being a free agent (kind of her thing, really), but past that, well, she was still ordering Zerg about, human appearance notwithstanding. Beyond that... Kerrigan gonna Kerrigan. You're pinning everything on the change in her body.

Ignoring that she'd been a free agent until they retconned "Xel'naga subliminal mindcontrol" into the plot, the problem is that she goes back to being the Queen of Blades almost immediately, and she unleashes the Zerg on Terran and Protoss worlds alike... again.

It's the again part that's the problem for me, personally. Well, that and Space!Sargeras - when WoL begins, we're given two goals: overthrow Mengsk; and neutralise the Queen of Blades.

When HotS begins, Mengsk is still around as ruler of the Dominion, and Kerrigan goes back to being the Queen again soon afterwards. So of the two goals in WoL, one never got accomplished, and the other was undune almost instantly. So really, the plot of WoL only justified Kerrigan's transformation from central villain, to central hero - a change that I still don't agree with, because the way it was implemented retroactively strips the character of her own agency during SCI and especially Brood War.

"I like what I am." - Kerrigan as Queen of Blades, original Starcraft

No, she doesn't; that's Amon's "Xel'naga subliminal mindcontrol" speaking. Assuming you accept the plot of SCII as canon, and I, for one, do not.

 

[Hawki]

No, she doesn't; that's Amon's "Xel'naga subliminal mindcontrol" speaking. Assuming you accept the plot of SCII as canon, and I, for one, do not.

Wait, where's this idea of mind control coming from? Her actions in WoL are predicated on finding the Keystone in order to fight Amon, per her precognition at the end of Brood War. Duran's actions in WoL are predicated on foiling her and using the Keystone against her. She outright states in Heart of the Swarm that Amon never controlled her.

Edit: Since we're on the subject of WoL and HotS, I'll add my 2 cents:

-WoL and HotS form a continuous storyline, while LotV is separated by conflict (Second Great War vs. End War) and timeframe (3 weeks pass between the end of WoL and the start of HotS, while a year passes between HotS and LotV. So I never bought the idea that HotS in any way invalidated WoL. The Queen of Blades of old wouldn't undertake the same actions as Kerrigan in HotS. Likewise, WoL has plenty of its own content that it wraps up within its own storyline (Hanson, Tosh, Raynor's entire character arc, etc.), and sets the stage for future events (e.g. ingratiating Valerian with the Raiders).

-I've never bought the idea that Kerrigan's character was ruined per se, because for all intents and purposes, there's effectively two, if not three characters (in terms of actual persona) who bear the name of Sarah Kerrigan. There's Kerrigan pre-infestation, Kerrigan post-infestation, and Kerrigan post-de-infestation. That's not to say that there isn't overlap between them (e.g. Kerrigan 2.0 resents Mengsk for what he did to Kerrigan 1.0, so to speak), but her being put in the chrysalis is a form of character change, not character development, so to speak. It can't even be called a tragedy in the literary sense (unlike, say, Arthas, whose fall does meet the literary definition of tragedy).

So, here we have Kerrigan who's the "Queen ***** of the Universe," who falls into the realm of magnificent bastard. A person who's sadistic, gleeful, manipulative, genocidal, etc. Does that sound like the Kerrigan of old? No. Not really. I'm not saying elements of the old aren't there, but Tassadar points out that Kerrigan succumbed to "the twisted wiles of the Overmind." In the long term, some of that darkness can be transferred to Amon, but it's the same principle of character change.

So, here comes Kerrigan 3.0, who's effectively somewhere between Kerrigan 1.0 and 2.0 in terms of persona. Now, Kerrigan in HotS does some pretty nasty things, all in the name of taking down a man who's also done nasty things, but as others have pointed out, Kerrigan 2.0 would have killed Mengsk, and likely killed everyone else in the process. Or, the idea of self-sacrifice and repentence would never have entered her mind. The argument that Kerrigan is stripped of self-agency is flawed, IMO, because her character has never had true agency. Certainly not as a Ghost, when she was used by the Confederacy, and then manipulated by Mengsk right up to New Gettysburg. Kerrigan 2.0 has agency to an extent, but it's only agency allowed for by being turned into a monster by forces beyond her control. Kerrigan 3.0 has agency, but is bogged down by the sins of her past selves (key word being "selves," since Kerrigan's murder of Mengsk's family is part of what spurred her betrayal of her). And she submits to loss of agency by agreeing to Ouros's essence transfer, and being willing to sacrifice herself as a means of redemption. Depending on how you interpret the ending of LotV, maybe she finally does have agency, maybe not - it's intentionally ambiguous, just as much that Kerrigan's lack of agency was a stated point of her character development.

 

[Mangod]

No, she doesn't; that's Amon's "Xel'naga subliminal mindcontrol" speaking. Assuming you accept the plot of SCII as canon, and I, for one, do not.

Wait, where's this idea of mind control coming from? Her actions in WoL are predicated on finding the Keystone in order to fight Amon, per her precognition at the end of Brood War. Duran's actions in WoL are predicated on foiling her and using the Keystone against her. She outright states in Heart of the Swarm that Amon never controlled her.

Question: In Wings of Liberty, Kerrigan appears to be resigned to the destruction of the universe at the hands of the Fallen One, which seems contrary to what we know of her character. What led her to take such a fatalistic view of things? [http://us.battle.net//sc2/en/blog/7778772]

Answer: Another great one. The Queen of Blades was clearly a scrapper who would fight tooth and nail, lie, manipulate, and do anything else to win when there was even a fraction of a chance. What happens when you are all-powerful . . . but still come to believe that you have no chance at all? What does that do to you? And remember, although she possessed a great deal more independence than the Overmind, she was still full of Zerg mutagen, which means she was at the very least influenced by the will of the Dark Voice.

Does that answer your question?

And while we're on the subject of SCII's writing being BS:

Question: In the introductory booklet for the original StarCraft, we learn that the Xel'naga created the Zerg in an attempt to make a creature that was pure not in form (like their "failed experiment," the Protoss) but in function. They created the Overmind and tried to remain hidden from it as they orbited Char, slowly influencing the evolution of the Zerg. But then the story goes that the Overmind learned of the Xel'naga's presence and attacked them, driving them clear out of the sector. If the Xel'naga aren't around now because the Overmind crushed their fleet, how could the Overmind have been enslaved by the Xel'naga all along, as WoL says?

Answer: Who said the Overmind was enslaved by the Xel'naga?

"The zerg were... altered. A single overriding objective was forced on them... the destruction of our people. The Overmind was formed with thought and reason but not with free will. It screamed and raged in a prison of its own mind."

"Tassadar", from the "Echoes of the Future" mission in SCII.

 

[Hawki]

Does that answer your question?

Um, no? I don't see what you're getting at, all that's stated is that Kerrigan is influenced by the will of Amon. That jives with what HotS says, that she was affected, but never controlled, and jives with her WoL persona, that Kerrigan demonstrates fatalism, believing from the outset that she can't win. The Q&A only reinforces what the games themselves tell us.

And while we're on the subject of SCII's writing being BS:

Question: In the introductory booklet for the original StarCraft, we learn that the Xel'naga created the Zerg in an attempt to make a creature that was pure not in form (like their "failed experiment," the Protoss) but in function. They created the Overmind and tried to remain hidden from it as they orbited Char, slowly influencing the evolution of the Zerg. But then the story goes that the Overmind learned of the Xel'naga's presence and attacked them, driving them clear out of the sector. If the Xel'naga aren't around now because the Overmind crushed their fleet, how could the Overmind have been enslaved by the Xel'naga all along, as WoL says?

Answer: Who said the Overmind was enslaved by the Xel'naga?

"The zerg were... altered. A single overriding objective was forced on them... the destruction of our people. The Overmind was formed with thought and reason but not with free will. It screamed and raged in a prison of its own mind."

"Tassadar", from the "Echoes of the Future" mission in SCII.

I really don't see what you're getting at. The user asks about the Overmind being enslaved by the xel'naga. It wasn't, only by Amon and his renegades. The xel'naga that it crushed were the ones not aligned with Amon. If anything, the quote shows that the revelations presented in LotV were planned even back then.