Is it just me or has there been a surprising lack of originality in the Zelda bosses lately? I know it must be hard for the designers to have to come up with all of them for each game, but still after finishing Twilight Princess I really have to say this. Arent there any other ways to kill these things besides going after a conviniently placed eye or crystal or some similarly dimensioned part that just about screams attack me to kill the boss. For example, the first, second, third, and sixth bosses of Twilight princess. I will definetely admit that the final boss battle was fantastic and was given Nintendo's extremely high standard for final battles as I have come to expect but lately I'm really starting to miss the invisible voice in my head that I used to get at the begining of every boss battle saying,"Well how the hell am I supposed to kill this guy?"
Legend of Zelda, what happened to the bosses?
- Thread starter Nero5
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I understand what you mean. Nintendo feels each Zelda has to have things like Dodongos and Gohmas (though it used to be a crab rather than a spider). They want it to still feel familiar, despite all the mechanical and artistic changes the series has gone through.
On the other hand, even if they got rid of the old familiars, I'm don't think it would fix it. Gohma's weakness has always been it's eye, but if another boss came around with a huge googly eye, you would probably still figure it out. There's only so many ways the formula can be mixed up without getting horribly obtuse. They could probably discard all the familiar tools for new ones, but would it still be Zelda to the particularly nostalgic? That's what I wonder.
On the other hand, even if they got rid of the old familiars, I'm don't think it would fix it. Gohma's weakness has always been it's eye, but if another boss came around with a huge googly eye, you would probably still figure it out. There's only so many ways the formula can be mixed up without getting horribly obtuse. They could probably discard all the familiar tools for new ones, but would it still be Zelda to the particularly nostalgic? That's what I wonder.
I haven't gotten a chance to play all the way through Twilight princess, but I see your point. But, the Zelda series in a way has to keep its familiarity or else it loses a lot of its interest. Best thing you can really hope for is a mix of classic, predicable bosses mixed with new, slightly more puzzling bosses to break the mundane cycle.
@ lewa nua: Thats probably what keeps consumers asking for more.
@ lewa nua: Thats probably what keeps consumers asking for more.
You are absoloutley(spell-check please) right about the Zelda bosses, but I find them fun. It's some weird form of nostalgia I guess. Repetetive for some, but fun for others. But Nintendo could pick up the pace and be a bit more creative for the next big title.
as far as i can tell there are only so many ways to kill something. God of War style where no matter how much damage you deal to the monster you cant kill it, you have to use the environment...in which case the fact that your fighting, say a hydra, right next to a GIANT broken mast resembling a huge spike...hmmm
there is the "ill just hit you until you die" method where you pound on any spot on the monster until its health runs out
or the aforementioned Zelda style, where a monster has a weak spot and all the fun is getting to it and taking out the monster that way...
anyone have two cents i can borrow? i just spent mine...
there is the "ill just hit you until you die" method where you pound on any spot on the monster until its health runs out
or the aforementioned Zelda style, where a monster has a weak spot and all the fun is getting to it and taking out the monster that way...
anyone have two cents i can borrow? i just spent mine...
I'm surprised that you didn't complain about Zant. just deflecting and blocking the whole game, and bringing me to every boss area from before tells me that Nintendo has just run out of environment ideas at that time.
Ganondorf was the funnest boss battle I have ever played!
Ganondorf was the funnest boss battle I have ever played!
I liked zant...you had to remember how you fought the bosses in each of the areas to defeat him...which, considering I didn't play the game for two months in between starting it and finishing it, was tough for me to do...defcon 1 said:
I decided to take it easy on Zant because of how funny his boss battle was with his crazy noises and blind retard swordsmanship. Seriously with the really intimidating serious tone they had been giving him up until that point I just about pissed my pants with laughter after seeing his face.defcon 1 said:
The Moon was quite epic.
As was the rest of Majora's Mask. It was littered with originality, especially when it came to the boss battles. But of course the fanbase at the time didn't like the new changes - especially given they were still reeling from the glory which was OoT, so Nintendo abandoned that approach in the future.
So now we're stuck with estranged monsters which have less AI than Tetris and about the same bloody level of variation.
As was the rest of Majora's Mask. It was littered with originality, especially when it came to the boss battles. But of course the fanbase at the time didn't like the new changes - especially given they were still reeling from the glory which was OoT, so Nintendo abandoned that approach in the future.
So now we're stuck with estranged monsters which have less AI than Tetris and about the same bloody level of variation.
Mask was the best Zelda game. It was totally original and had that frustrating and amazing timer constantly nagging at you. Even when you achieved something once you went back to day one, everything was still broken. It was a true sequel that had a different story.Melaisis said:
As for the rest of the Zelda games with the same story. Yes when you've played one Zelda you've played them all, but the dungeons while stylistically similar, are in fact different in their layout and there are different things to find in the sidelines.
Windwaker. They realised that if Ganondorf is killed then there is no more story, because it breaks the tri-force, kills the only bad guy who really matters, and breaks Hyrulian tradition. SO, twilight princess had to go back to basics making seem like all creativity has been robbed after MM and WWTheNecroswanson said:
Yes, yes, yes. I really liked the "Groundhog Day"-like restarts where you would gradually improve the peripheral characters lives' by learning what ails them and then helping them. I almost feel that being part of the Zelda franchise hurts this game's reputation.squirrelman42 said:
For the most part, I think it's hard to look at the Zelda games as good individual games because they bear the LoZ moniker. But individually, they are all very good games, it's just hard not to notice the repeated game-play mechanics, scenarios, and themes. Thematically, they're all pretty much identical-- to restore peace, you must confront evil. It's very simple, childish even, but still a very pure motive. It's not exciting or filled with moral ambiguity but it does have it's charm. If you want something else from a game, I can see why you'd avoid the Zelda series. Childlike charm is a hard sell these days.
The one thing that the Zelda franchise has gotten better at is building the overall atmosphere (or vibe). The traditional Hyrule games have a more general "evil is everywhere" feeling. In Wind Waker, you're dealing with a world that has survived destruction and has carried on. Majora's Mask upped the intensity of the game with an atmosphere of 'real' impending doom. That creepy moon was just hanging over you as the clock ticked down. There was a great sense of urgency and dread in Majora's Mask that few games have.
What the Zelda series lacks in variation from game to game I overlook because they are unique to themselves. While changes to the series would be welcomed, what keeps me playing Zelda games is their charm-- something that I value above any game play mechanic or plot line.
I think the thing to remember with Zelda games and the like is that not everyone has played all of them. Hell alot of people weren't even born when the first one came out...
Hands up who played the very first game, or the second (2D side scrolling battles!).
Therefore these new players can't have some really obscure and 'hard' boss battles. That said i have not played many Zelda games (basically Zelda 2, Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and the first gameboy one). Ok thinking about it i guess i have played a lot!
Regardless i still find them fun...
Hands up who played the very first game, or the second (2D side scrolling battles!).
Therefore these new players can't have some really obscure and 'hard' boss battles. That said i have not played many Zelda games (basically Zelda 2, Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and the first gameboy one). Ok thinking about it i guess i have played a lot!
Regardless i still find them fun...
It's ok for a boss to have a weak point,but please Nintendo,don't place it right in front of our face!
-Oh no,a Fire-Golem with a bright-shining diamond on the Forehead! I'd never guess that i've got to use the bow that I found some minutes ago. *sarcasm*
-No way,a fish with one eye! Who could ever think of attacking the eye with the grappling-hook that I just found? *more sarcasm*
-Wow,a giant Dragon-skull! It's most unlikely that I have to hit him with the Spinner I got before.
And so on...
I really like Zelda games,but the bosses are just too easy to defeat.They only require the weapon you find in the dungeon,the sword,and sometimes the bow,which makes weapon-selection really obvious.
-Oh no,a Fire-Golem with a bright-shining diamond on the Forehead! I'd never guess that i've got to use the bow that I found some minutes ago. *sarcasm*
-No way,a fish with one eye! Who could ever think of attacking the eye with the grappling-hook that I just found? *more sarcasm*
-Wow,a giant Dragon-skull! It's most unlikely that I have to hit him with the Spinner I got before.
And so on...
I really like Zelda games,but the bosses are just too easy to defeat.They only require the weapon you find in the dungeon,the sword,and sometimes the bow,which makes weapon-selection really obvious.
In defense of Nintendo:
- the Fire-Golem was quite interactive, destructing the environment, you could grab his chains and then attack his weak spot once you got him to fall...
- the fish was really interactive too, hanging on to him with context-sensitive music and such...
in the end it bests SotC in many ways. There, you have just two weapons (and eventually a wooden stick for boss 11 or 12) and the tactics for beating the colossi are also quite the same everytime. The difficulty and combinations of challenges are well paced in both games, but in Zelda there is much more to play around with, usually. Which is, what a game is about, right?
In the end, the gameplay of Zelda is more metaphorically overloaded and involves the player's phantasy more than in SotC which I found quite boring after the first bosses. I did not play it twice before now - the only interesting thing is to get to this secret garden. Thats it.
So, in essence... taken all the mini-games and side-quests that make every Zelda special... what game does its job better? Especially because of its timeless gameplay, why would you change Zelda. I think Twilight Princess is still quite far from OoT. It is much more mature...
- the Fire-Golem was quite interactive, destructing the environment, you could grab his chains and then attack his weak spot once you got him to fall...
- the fish was really interactive too, hanging on to him with context-sensitive music and such...
in the end it bests SotC in many ways. There, you have just two weapons (and eventually a wooden stick for boss 11 or 12) and the tactics for beating the colossi are also quite the same everytime. The difficulty and combinations of challenges are well paced in both games, but in Zelda there is much more to play around with, usually. Which is, what a game is about, right?
In the end, the gameplay of Zelda is more metaphorically overloaded and involves the player's phantasy more than in SotC which I found quite boring after the first bosses. I did not play it twice before now - the only interesting thing is to get to this secret garden. Thats it.
So, in essence... taken all the mini-games and side-quests that make every Zelda special... what game does its job better? Especially because of its timeless gameplay, why would you change Zelda. I think Twilight Princess is still quite far from OoT. It is much more mature...